Smokin JoeAli fraizer fight
Doctrine of Unconditional Election
- Thread starter brightfame52
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civic
Well-known member
Don't forget the old "rope-a-dope"He got stung by the bee
civic
Well-known member
And wore out the big dummy
And lets not forget... Mr. T saying “I pity the fool” as Clubber Lang in Rocky III, He got it from the bible.
www.yahoo.com
The Surprising Inspiration Behind Mr. T’s ’I Pity the Fool’ Catch Phrase
It’s been nearly 35 years since we first heard Mr. T say “I pity the fool,” and the phrase has stuck with him ever since.
brightfame52
Well-known member
God fulfilled that condition before the foundation 1 Cor 1:30
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Eph1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Thats why its an unconditional election of grace Duh
You however were not in Christ
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Thus only those who would be in Christ are chosen to be holy and blameless when they in fact are
Except you misunderstand what is stated
Your statement simply echoes what I stated when understood
Sorry no, election is in Christ"
rejecting brightfame52 comments on unconditional election
Glad you do also
This looks AI generated.
Good to know that AI rejects unconditional election
brightfame52
Well-known member
God fulfilled that condition before the foundation 1 Cor 1:30
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Eph1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Thats why its an unconditional election of grace Duh
So instead of dealing with James 2 you instead resort to scare tactics to boost your side. Give me a break.
The monergistic faith (no human contributing factor involved) that the calvinist version of "faith is a gift" attempts to promote is a dead faith because without human good works to accompany faith that faith is a dead faith (James 2:20).
In other words, the calvinist version of a gift of faith is a dead faith because without human good works to accompany it it is dead (James 2:20).
Thats why Luther went into convulsions when he read James 2:24. Calvinists instead practice denial because their capacity to understand what Luther clearly understood is much lower than Luther's.
Conclusion: faith is synergistic. There is no other way.
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The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
James is talking about faith after you are saved. It has nothing to do with saving faith. He's just pointing out that if your faith doesn't produce works, your faith is dead and you're not saved.
If it's through faith that you are saved then how can faith be "after you are saved"?
How can James' justifying faith (James 2:24) not be a saving faith? Explain that to us.
Thanks for confirming that the calvinist monergistic version of a "gift of faith" is a dead faith. That's because without human good works to accompany it faith is dead (James 2:20).
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The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
When you put your trust in Jesus, you are saved, but you don't bear fruit at that exact moment. Your faith isn't dead. It's new. If you become a believing one, your faith produce works as you walk in the Spirit. If your seed falls on bad soil, then you may "believe" at first, but you are not a "believing one", you don't get saved and you produce no good fruit.If it's through faith that you are saved then how can faith be "after you are saved"?
How can James' justifying faith (James 2:24) not be a saving faith? Explain that to us.
Thanks for confirming that the calvinist monergistic version of a "gift of faith" is a dead faith. That's because without human good works to accompany it faith is dead (James 2:20).
Sorry but no one is in Christ before believing
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB 2020) — 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise,
1cor 1:30 says nothing about being in Christ before the foundation of the earth
You add to and twist scripture for man made beliefs
Not the first fightHe got stung by the bee
Agreed, but what does this has to do with what has been thus far said?
First of all, no one ever ask me to address James two; secondly, no scare tactics are being used, just a true warning to those who are laughing now, that God will wipe that smile off of their faces very soon and replace it with fear and trembling. Now James two.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Here James will condemn carnal Christianity ~ a professor who does not posses good works~a much needed warning for our day. While Paul opposed Jewish legalism much of the time, James blasted those trusting sola fide! Professing Christianity has it extremes, both must be dealt with.James, an apostle of Jesus Christ, has no use for those professing faith but living fruitless lives. As the followers of Jesus, we should as dogmatically deny the salvation of those without works supporting their profession.
What doth it profit~The question is rhetorical, which you can easily answer – Such faith has no profit! It cannot save!
How does faith save? It only saves by laying hold of eternal life for evidence of coming salvation.Election is not based on faith, for God chose us in Christ without faith (Psalms 14:1-3; Ephesians 1:3-12). Justification needs no faith, for God justified freely by Christ's faith and obedience! (Romans 5:15-19; 8:28-34; Titus 3:4-7).
Regeneration is not based on faith, for the new life must come first (John 1:13; 3:3,6,8; 5:24).
Conversion definitely requires faith, for it is our belief of the gospel of God’s gracious salvation. Glorification can only be known and trusted to the degree that a child of God brings forth works.
We believe on Christ, not to be justified or regenerated, but to lay hold of coming salvation. James did not write a theoretical lesson for their evangelistic program, but for their own conduct!
Actual, legal, literal, or vital salvation is not pursued here, or you end up being saved by works! The point pursued is the evidence of eternal life resulting in future salvation – faith plus works.
- Faith provides evidence of eternal life only when it bears good works (II Pet 1:5-11; I Thess 1:2-4).
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Here is a simple rhetorical question illustrating the vanity and worthlessness of faith without works. The hypothetical case is to shame carnal believers for thinking professions of faith carry any weight.
James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Mere words do absolutely nothing to provide peace, clothing, or food for those naked and starving. This is the same as someone saying they believe and love Jesus, but never do anything to obey Him. If choices and actions are not made producing good works, then faith or claims of faith are nothing. The illustration is not teaching charitable performance, for that is taught elsewhere (I John 3:17-19).
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
In precisely the same way – even so – as the illustration, faith without works is vain and worthless. Belief or profession of a thing without actions confirming and proving it is alone – naked and vain. It is dead, for true faith is a living expression of trust in God by actively seeking Him (Heb 11:6).
Jame 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
There are two options about works for men with faith – you can confirm your faith, or you cannot. Which would you rather have? Faith that you cannot prove, or works that prove faith a reality? Give us the works, Lord, for even if we have weak faith, but strong works, we know we are thine! Evangelical religion today guarantees salvation for a trite formula that often does not even have to admit that Jesus is Lord (Lordship controversy), but James here takes the whole mess and flushes it!
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
The man with faith and a carnal life professes to any who listen, “I believe there is one God … and this faith in the monotheistic religion of Israel (and maybe even His Son) proves I have eternal life.” The words of James here – thou does well – are not sarcastic irony, due to the following context. Faith in the one God of Israel, which is the fact considered here, is good (Deut 6:4; I Cor 8:4-6). James commended the man with this faith as far as it goes, for it is a blessing to believe this fact. He then declared that devils also believe, which reduced any vain confidence in such a faith. And he added that the devils tremble in fear, which proves its certainty, but denies their sincerity. In the next verse, the disjunctive but indicates that James is criticizing the faith he praised. If he had just annihilated his faith by sarcastic irony, he would not have contrasted v.20 by but. The devils believe on Jesus Christ as God’s Son, as their confessions while He was on earth proved. The devils would fall and worship Jesus Christ – they knew Him well (Mark 1:23-25; 5:6-12). The devils knew Jesus and His servant Paul, but they did not know gypsies (Acts 19:13-17). The trembling of the devils is their devilish fear of their coming torment from the Son of God.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Though I have commended you for faith in one God as doing well, there is still a need for works. Though the devils believe there is one God and tremble concerning it, there is still a need for works. In contrast to whatever you may think about your faith, without works it is nothing but a dead thing. Presuming on a decision or faith in Jesus is a vanity, for He will condemn many such (Matt 7:21-23).
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
This is very different historical reasoning than that of Paul, who traced Abraham’s justification to his faith in Genesis 15:1-6, and referred to that event often (Rom 4:3,9,22; Gal 3:6). Paul did not oppose easy believism, but rather many Jewish legalists in love with Moses’ law. Therefore, he referred to that event in Abraham’s life where God declared him righteous by faith. Paul argued from faith to silence Jews who trusted (a) works of the law, (b) circumcision, (c) Moses religion, or even (d) Abraham’s genes … but Abraham the father of Israel was justified while uncircumcised, 430 years before the law, and then by faith without any respect of persons! God declared Abraham truly did fear Him after he went the distance to sacrifice his son (Gen 22:12).What justification is considered here? Our legal position before God, or our knowledge of it? Our legal position before God, or His declaration of it? Our legal position, or our assurance of it?
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
These rhetorical questions indicate that this concept of justification by works should be easy to see. Faith leads to works to please God, for faith believes God rewards diligent seekers (Hebrews 11:6). The faith of Abraham in Genesis 15:6 was made complete and true by his works in Genesis 22:12. Faith is dead and devilish without works; but it is complete or perfect by works, as with Abraham.
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Abraham’s trust in God’s promise secured a preliminary declaration of his righteousness (Gen 15:6). God’s declaration of Abraham’s righteousness was confirmed by his actions on Moriah (Gen 22:12). Abraham was called the friend of God as a result of his faithful actions (II Chron 20:7; Isaiah 41:8).Please remember Abraham was a just and righteous man, living by faith, long before he got to Genesis 15:6. It is one of the travesties of Bible interpretation to hear that Abraham was justified in 15:6 in any other way that God declaring his faith in an impossible promise as evidence of his righteousness.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
What can we see from Abram’s history? The real evidence proving righteousness requires works. What we see is that Genesis 15:6 is only part of the picture. It is incomplete without Gen 22:12! Those who cry, “Sola Fide,” and think that Genesis 15:6 is the end of justification are wrong. Abraham’s subjective justification by faith was made complete or perfect by his further works. Justification is being declared righteous by God: Abraham was declared so by faith and works. It is vain confidence to trust in some belief, decision, or profession of Jesus without good works. Abram’s actual justification, or acceptance and acquittal with God, was without faith by Christ! James did not teach justification by the works that Paul condemned, or the Bible lies (II Peter 1:20). Paul rejected Jewish legalists and their trust in Moses’ law by teaching the historical fact of God’s declaration of Abraham’s righteousness by virtue of his great act of faith (Gen 15:6). James taught that any man’s faith without works was not nearly enough evidence or proof to claim righteousness, justification, or the hope of future glorification.
James 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Not content with his glorious explanation of Abraham’s case, James used Rahab as another example, which he by the Spirit considered to be an exact match to Abraham with Isaac (Gen 22:12). For those ignorant of Rahab, she was a mother of Jesus and in the hall of faith (Mat 1:5; Heb 11:31)! Bless the great God for exalting such a Gentile woman so highly and forgiving such a great sinner. The actions described here – hiding the spies and lying to her city’s leaders – were done by faith, but they constituted works that proved her faith to be real and true (Joshua 2:8-21). She had come to believe and trust the God of Israel, so she willingly risked her live to serve Him. She received the spies in through her front door, but she sent them out through her window.What is this justification? The same as Abraham’s – evidence and proof of righteousness by works.
Who wants to ride this horse to heaven? Did God legally accept Rahab based on her noble lying? Rahab definitely believed the God of Israel was the LORD Jehovah, and she acted upon it.
Did this change her status in heaven, in the book of life, in the sight of God … or only display it?
If the justification here is actual legal justification, then salvation is by works, which it is not. We understand this verse to declare Rahab’s justified character and status by works, just as the Bible declares the same thing for Phinehas by his zeal in using his javelin (Ps 106:30-31).
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
A body without the spirit is very dead indeed … it is clearly nothing more than shaped, damp clay. The animating, vital component of a living person is missing – the spirit bringing the clay to life. The body without the spirit is an empty house or tabernacle, for the substantial soul life is gone.As dramatic as a dead body is, so is faith or a profession of belief without any supporting works. James here condemned those in his audience who were confident of eternal life by their faith only~without godly works proving their faith. .
