Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[Red Baker]

But not unconditional election to salvation but rather the choice of a lineage through which God would use to bring his message to the world and bring in the Christ

Tom, that's is not the election of grace spoken of by Paul in Romans nine~that's called wishful thinking on your part. I'm convince you know more than you willing confess, but your are resisting the Holy Ghost's witness given very clearly in Romans nine, because God's will alone exalted and man is shown to be what he is apart from God's grace.....a sinner who is at enmity against the God of heaven~and would died in that state if there was no election of pure grace saving him from destroying himself in the lake of fire.

The Calvinist assumes his position

Assume? Test me and see, if my faith in the word of God is built upon assumption, I'm convinced that I can defend my position against any, which are the truth of holy scriptures.

 

[TomL]

Tom, that's is not the election of grace spoken of by Paul in Romans nine~that's called wishful thinking on your part. I'm convince you know more than you willing confess, but your are resisting the Holy Ghost's witness given very clearly in Romans nine, because God's will alone exalted and man is shown to be what he is apart from God's grace.....a sinner who is at enmity against the God of heaven~and would died in that state if there was no election of pure grace saving him from destroying himself in the lake of fire.

Assume? Test me and see, if my faith in the word of God is built upon assumption, I'm convinced that I can defend my position against any, which are the truth of holy scriptures.

Go for it. Prove unconditional election to salvation is taught in Romans 9.

You have simply asserted it

That salvation (righteousness) is not unconditional is seen here

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 11:20–24 (KJV 1900) — 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

[synergy]

Assume? Test me and see, if my faith in the word of God is built upon assumption, I'm convinced that I can defend my position against any, which are the truth of holy scriptures.

You've failed miserably to prove unconditional election onto salvation before and you'll fail again. The sooner you realize that the Bible does not support it the better for you.

 

[TomL]

You've failed miserably to prove unconditional election onto salvation before and you'll fail again. The sooner you realize that the Bible does not support it the better for you.

Yes he will. The summary statement Rom 9:30-32 easily disproves his doctrine. Rom 11:20-24 does so as well as chapter 10 of Romans

 

[Red Baker]

You've failed miserably to prove unconditional election onto salvation before and you'll fail again. The sooner you realize that the Bible does not support it the better for you.

In whose eyes? Only in your/and your friends deceived hearts, do you believe I failed.

 

[synergy]

In whose eyes? Only in your/and your friends deceived hearts, do you believe I failed.

Go ahead and everyone will see again that your attempt to go against the Bible will fail miserably once more.

 

[TomL]

In whose eyes? Only in your/and your friends deceived hearts, do you believe I failed.

Um Who was deceived would be another assumption

 

[brightfame52]

But not unconditional election to salvation but rather the choice of a lineage through which God would use to bring his message to the world and bring in the Christ

The Calvinist assumes his position

The Truth of unconditional election is seen in Rom 9 speaking on the Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

It took place before the vessels were ever born to do any acts, then its declared to be , then look at Vs 16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

The false religions of man says it is of the person that willeth !

Its declared to be not of works which covers a wide variety of conditions Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Rom11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[TomL]

The Truth of unconditional election is seen in Rom 9 speaking on the Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

It took place before the vessels were ever born to do any acts, then its declared to be , then look at Vs 16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

The false religions of man says it is of the person that willeth !

Its declared to be not of works which covers a wide variety of conditions Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Rom11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Nothing in Romans 9 mentions unconditional election to salvation. You just assume it

While ignoring

That salvation (righteousness) is not unconditional is seen here

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 11:20–24 (KJV 1900) — 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

[brightfame52]

Nothing in Romans 9 mentions unconditional election to salvation. You just assume it

While ignoring

That salvation (righteousness) is not unconditional is seen here

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 11:20–24 (KJV 1900) — 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

The Truth of unconditional election is seen in Rom 9 speaking on the Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

It took place before the vessels were ever born to do any acts, then its declared to be , then look at Vs 16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

The false religions of man says it is of the person that willeth !

Its declared to be not of works which covers a wide variety of conditions Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Rom11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[civic]

The Truth of unconditional election is seen in Rom 9 speaking on the Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

It took place before the vessels were ever born to do any acts, then its declared to be , then look at Vs 16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

The false religions of man says it is of the person that willeth !

Its declared to be not of works which covers a wide variety of conditions Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Rom11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

It’s the chosen/elect Jews that are the ones not saved in Roman’s 9-11.

God instead went with the unelect , non chosen gentiles and saved them

Down goes Calvinism

 

[synergy]

It’s the chosen/elect Jews that are the ones not saved in Roman’s 9-11.

God instead went with the unelect , non chosen gentiles and saved them

Down goes Calvinism

Maybe someone can write a eulogy for Calvinism? Except that I can't think of even one good thing to say for calvinism.

 

[civic]

Maybe someone can write a eulogy for Calvinism? Except that I can't think of even one good thing to say for calvinism.

Scripture taken in context says the opposite of Calvinism

Only verses removed from their context can lead to their erroneous conclusions

 

[Red Baker]

Nothing in Romans 9 mentions unconditional election to salvation. You just assume it

While ignoring

That salvation (righteousness) is not unconditional is seen here

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 11:20–24 (KJV 1900) — 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Romans 9: and 11 has been addressed more than once, no more.

Romans we will come come back and finished what we did not finish ~ but, I'm sure it will serve no purpose to those who are resisting the Spirit's testimony of the truth.

Constantly casting God's precious pearls/truths before swines does nothing to prove to them that they are pearls not to be trampled upon. The ole hairy swine will continuing search through mud in searching for food to feed his hungry appetite with less valuable jewels...what he considers as jewels...rotten, stinky...whatever! Often, waste from other creatures like himself!

 

[brightfame52]

It’s the chosen/elect Jews that are the ones not saved in Roman’s 9-11.

God instead went with the unelect , non chosen gentiles and saved them

Down goes Calvinism

The Truth of unconditional election is seen in Rom 9 speaking on the Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

It took place before the vessels were ever born to do any acts, then its declared to be , then look at Vs 16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

The false religions of man says it is of the person that willeth !

Its declared to be not of works which covers a wide variety of conditions Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Rom11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[TomL]

Romans 9: and 11 has been addressed more than once, no more.

Romans we will come come back and finished what we did not finish ~ but, I'm sure it will serve no purpose to those who are resisting the Spirit's testimony of the truth.

Constantly casting God's precious pearls/truths before swines does nothing to prove to them that they are pearls not to be trampled upon. The ole hairy swine will continuing search through mud in searching for food to feed his hungry appetite with less valuable jewels...what he considers as jewels...rotten, stinky...whatever! Often, waste from other creatures like himself!

Well the summary statement Rom 9:30-32 and Romans 11 have not
and they are more than sufficient to refute the assumption of unconditional election to salvation
earlier in Romans 9

'
BTW calling those who disagree you swine is nothing more than ad hominem and unchristian

 

[civic]

Well the summary statement Rom 9:30-32 and Romans 11 have not
and they are more than sufficient to refute the assumption of unconditional election to salvation
earlier in Romans 9

'
BTW calling those who disagree you swine is nothing more than ad hominem and unchristian

Ad homs are a sure sign ones doctrine is defeated

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Ad homs are a sure sign ones doctrine is defeated

Most of what you post are ad homs of one kind or another. Usually it's directed at the general "Calvinists", like "We have to teach Calvinists what they believe". But your snarky responses to me and others who don't believe what you believe are still ad-homs.

 

[TomL]

Ad homs are a sure sign ones doctrine is defeated

Yes it is and is quite low road and unchristian

 

[Red Baker]

Well the summary statement Rom 9:30-32 and Romans 11 have not
and they are more than sufficient to refute the assumption of unconditional election to salvation
earlier in Romans 9