Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[civic]

Really, is this your best attempt to disprove my post? Pitiful indeed!

There is a starting point for believing~the new birth is prequite to believing according to the grammar of John's writing. Anyone with a little knowledge of the English language would admit this, unless they have a agenda to protect, like you do~your golden calf of man's free will being not in bondage to sin and Satan.

Even the version you used proves my point.


Exactly, living come first, just as we have being saying for as long as we have been on this forum. Thanks for the example, you need to heed your own post, it seems as though a Calvinist posted it instead of you.

The only person who is embarrassing themselves would be Mr. synergy.

Yep all presuppositions with zero scripture about regeneration preceding faith. Another straw man .

Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!


Notice what comes first


1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.


John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.


John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows. See also John 5:24;40


John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.

Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in Acts 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?

conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.


1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life

The Biblical Order Salutis

Summary of The Biblical order- notice where new life, regeneration is on the list from Scripture.

1- the preaching of the gospel- Rom 10
2- the hearing of the gospel- Rom 10
3- belief in the gospel- John 1:12
4- receiving the gospel- John 1:12
5- repentance Luke 5:32
6- the new birth that results in #7
7- salvation, eternal life- John 1:13
8- Justification- Rom 8:30
9- Sanctification- Rom 8
10- Glorification Rom 8:30


hope this helps !!!

 

[Red Baker]

This was written by a friend of mine with permission to share.​

​

The Grammar Of Salvation​

1. The voice of a verb tells whether a thing is acting or being acted upon. The active voice indicates that a thing itself is acting; the passive voice indicates that a thing itself is being acted upon by another, it being passive in the action.

Active	Passive
He swallowed the fish.	He was swallowed by the fish.
We know God (Gal 4:9).	We are known of God (Gal 4:9).
Then shall I know (I Cor 13:10).	As also I am known (I Cor 13:10).
He accepted God.	He is accepted with God (Ep 1:6).

2. The tense of a verb tells the timing of the action. Past, present, and future tenses are obvious to most everyone.

Past	Present	Future
They ran to school.	They run to school.	They will run to school.
She loved the saints.	She loves the saints.	She will love the saints.
They were begotten.	They are being begotten.	They will be begotten.
Who was born.	Who is being born.	Who will be born.

3. The perfect tense means an action was completed, or perfected, some time before the given tense and is still true in the given tense. Perfect tense exists for past, present, and future.

Past Perfect	Present Perfect	Future Perfect
They had run to school.	They have run to school.	They will have run.
She had loved the saints.	She has loved the saints.	She will have loved.
They had been begotten.	They have been begotten.	They will have been begot.
Who had been born.	Who have been born.	Who will have been born.

4. Verb order has nothing to do with timing, if the verb tenses indicate otherwise.

Verb Order
The man that won the sit-up contest had run five miles. (He ran first)
They reported all that the chief priests had said unto them (Acts 4:23).
The elders at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God (Acts 8:14).
He found a certain man, which had kept his bed eight years (Acts 9:33).
They cast them into the cave wherein they had been hid (Josh 10:27).

I John 5:1 “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”​

1. The man that “believeth” [present tense] “is born” [perfect tense, passive voice] of God.
2. The grammar declares by verb tenses that the man was born of God before he believed.
3. Therefore, believing the gospel about Jesus Christ is evidence and proof of regeneration.
4. If you make it conditional, you must also require love and righteousness (I Jn 2:29; 4:7).
5. But love and righteousness are evidence of regeneration (I John 3:7,10,14; III John 1:11).
6. By comparing this verse to I John 4:7 and I John 3:14, you can clearly see it is evidence.
7. By reading more than the sound bite, we see other verbs proving evidence (I John 4:15).
8. And we can also verify that evidence is indicated here by reading I John 5:4 and 5:13.
9. Modern usage would write, anyone believing Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.
10. Those who make these statements to be conditional are ignorant or liars. Let God be true!
11. Check Greek verbs in A.T. Robertson, Berry’s Interlinear, J.M. Pendleton, here, or here.

I John 4:15 “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”​

1. Remember the rule that order of verbs does not matter, for the tenses determine priority.
2. The act of faith, in confessing Jesus as Son, is clearly in the future tense, “shall confess.”
3. The result of regeneration, indwelling by God, is in the present tense, “God dwelleth.”
4. John taught that God already dwells in any person that confesses Jesus is the Son of God.
5. Confessing Jesus is the Son of God is evidence of union with God, not a condition for it.

John 5:24 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”​

1. What tenses are “heareth,” “believeth,” “hath,” “shall not come,” and “is passed”?
2. The one hearing and believing (present tense) is already in possession of eternal life.
3. The one hearing and believing (present tense) shall not come into future condemnation.
4. The one hearing and believing (present) has already been passed by the perfect tense.
5. Modern usage would write, the man that believes has been passed from death unto life.
6. A believer has been passed from death to life, owns eternal life, and will not be damned.
7. This verse by itself is a wonderful lesson in salvation grammar by its variety of tenses.
8. Of course, the verse is read, quoted, and preached as a sound bite for decisional salvation.
9. Check Greek verbs in A.T. Robertson, Berry’s Interlinear, J.M. Pendleton, here, or here.

John 1:12-13 “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”​

1. What are the verb tenses of “received,” “gave,” “believe,” and “were born”? Love them!
2. “Received him” is past tense as transition from John 1:11 in John’s historical account.
3. John brought past tense to the present by explanatory “even” and present tense “believe.”
4. Jesus “gave” [past tense] power to be God’s sons to those that “believe” [present tense].
5. Those who “believe” [present tense] “were born” [past tense] of God – the true order.
6. The action of birthing them by God had been perfected, or completed, before their belief.
7. Only this construction and understanding agrees with the descriptive facts of John 1:13.
8. Only this construction and understanding agrees with the rest of New Testament doctrine.
9. It is a travesty that men only quote and preach John 1:12, though it is but half a sentence.
10. For expositional details of John 1:12-13.

1 Corinthians 1:18 “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”​

1. Only those who “are saved” (perfect tense, passive voice) perceive the gospel as glorious.
2. Those perishing do not profit by hearing the gospel; it is foolishness to them (II Cor 4:3).
3. The language is clear – a perfect tense “are saved” and a present tense “is” perceived – indicates that salvation occurred prior to the gospel being perceived as the power of God.
4. Paul used verb tenses here to show the gospel only benefits those already saved (called).
5. God must call a man in order for the gospel to make sense to that man (I Cor 1:22-24).
6. It is a travesty men use this verse as if the gospel were the conditional means of salvation.
7. For details of I Corinthians 1.

Ephesians 1:6 “To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.”​

1. This text has to do with justification, not regeneration; but is it conditional at all?
2. Paul taught that our salvation is dependent on being accepted, not by accepting (Eph 1:6).
3. Crucial on Judgment Day is God’s acceptance of you, not yours of Him (Matt 7:21-23).
4. Here we are dealing with the voice of the verb – are we active or passive in acceptance?
5. It is the holy God accepting sinners by the merits of His beloved Son’s finished work.
6. The religious world is clamoring, buying, and seducing sinners to accept Jesus Christ.
7. God declared our adoption to result from being made acceptable to Him in Jesus Christ.
8. For more Ephesians 1.

Acts 10:35 “But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”​

1. This text has to do with justification, not regeneration; but is it conditional at all?
2. He that feareth (singular, present tense) is accepted with Him (singular, perfect tense).
3. He that worketh righteousness (singular, present tense) is accepted (singular, perfect).
4. Thus, a man fearing God and working righteousness has already been accepted by God.
5. The context shows that Cornelius already had five traits of saved men (Acts 10:1-5).
6. Being accepted with God through Jesus Christ is the stated key to salvation (Eph 1:6).
7. If we preach conditions, we violate grace and Scripture (Rom 3:18; I Jn 2:29; 3:7,10).
8. The only salvation Peter could give Cornelius was conversion (Ja 5:19-20; I Tim 4:16).
9. Cornelius.

Acts 13:39 “And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the Law of Moses.”​

1. This text has to do with justification, not regeneration; but is it conditional at all?
2. All that “believe” (plural, present tense) “are justified” (plural, perfect tense). Glory!
3. Paul further confirmed the fact by ascribing justification “by him,” that is, by Christ!
4. Paul argued that justification precedes faith in an evangelistic text about justification.

 

[synergy]

Really, is this your best attempt to disprove my post? Pitiful indeed!

English grammar is my best attempt and I will stick by it. The fact that you spit on English grammar is evidence of your disdain and dirt poor knowledge of it, typical of your clan.

There is a starting point for believing~the new birth is prequite to believing according to the grammar of John's writing. Anyone with a little knowledge of the English language would admit this, unless they have a agenda to protect, like you do~your golden calf of man's free will being not in bondage to sin and Satan.

Where is the Bible verse for this ranting of yours?

Even the version you used proves my point.

Exactly, living come first, just as we have being saying for as long as we have been on this forum. Thanks for the example, you need to heed your own post, it seems as though a Calvinist posted it instead of you.

So "Everyone American living in the US" first is exactly what you have been saying all along? Man, are you ever confused. Stop embarrassing yourself. Please!

 

[synergy]

This was written by a friend of mine with permission to share.​

​

The Grammar Of Salvation​

1. The voice of a verb tells whether a thing is acting or being acted upon. The active voice indicates that a thing itself is acting; the passive voice indicates that a thing itself is being acted upon by another, it being passive in the action.

Active	Passive
He swallowed the fish.	He was swallowed by the fish.
We know God (Gal 4:9).	We are known of God (Gal 4:9).
Then shall I know (I Cor 13:10).	As also I am known (I Cor 13:10).
He accepted God.	He is accepted with God (Ep 1:6).

2. The tense of a verb tells the timing of the action. Past, present, and future tenses are obvious to most everyone.

Past	Present	Future
They ran to school.	They run to school.	They will run to school.
She loved the saints.	She loves the saints.	She will love the saints.
They were begotten.	They are being begotten.	They will be begotten.
Who was born.	Who is being born.	Who will be born.

3. The perfect tense means an action was completed, or perfected, some time before the given tense and is still true in the given tense. Perfect tense exists for past, present, and future.

Past Perfect	Present Perfect	Future Perfect
They had run to school.	They have run to school.	They will have run.
She had loved the saints.	She has loved the saints.	She will have loved.
They had been begotten.	They have been begotten.	They will have been begot.
Who had been born.	Who have been born.	Who will have been born.

4. Verb order has nothing to do with timing, if the verb tenses indicate otherwise.

Verb Order
The man that won the sit-up contest had run five miles. (He ran first)
They reported all that the chief priests had said unto them (Acts 4:23).
The elders at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God (Acts 8:14).
He found a certain man, which had kept his bed eight years (Acts 9:33).
They cast them into the cave wherein they had been hid (Josh 10:27).

I John 5:1 “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”​

1. The man that “believeth” [present tense] “is born” [perfect tense, passive voice] of God.
2. The grammar declares by verb tenses that the man was born of God before he believed.
3. Therefore, believing the gospel about Jesus Christ is evidence and proof of regeneration.
4. If you make it conditional, you must also require love and righteousness (I Jn 2:29; 4:7).
5. But love and righteousness are evidence of regeneration (I John 3:7,10,14; III John 1:11).
6. By comparing this verse to I John 4:7 and I John 3:14, you can clearly see it is evidence.
7. By reading more than the sound bite, we see other verbs proving evidence (I John 4:15).
8. And we can also verify that evidence is indicated here by reading I John 5:4 and 5:13.
9. Modern usage would write, anyone believing Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.
10. Those who make these statements to be conditional are ignorant or liars. Let God be true!
11. Check Greek verbs in A.T. Robertson, Berry’s Interlinear, J.M. Pendleton, here, or here.

Instead of copying and pasting what biased calvinists dictate, why don't you consult unbiased sources to arrive at the truth? Ask an English Teacher. O, I forgot, you laugh at English grammar as you did in Post 860.

For all those who do not spit on English grammar, here is where iliterate calvinists go wrong:
 
There is such a thing as present continuous verbs in English. The exact starting point of these verbs can be known only if its sentence states a specified starting point. 1 John 5:1 does not indicate that. To take advantage of that situation, Calvinists move in and impose their timing as dictated by their calvinist presuppositions.

(1 John 5:1) Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves him who has been born of Him.

In 1 John 5:1 the verb "believes" is a present continuous action verb with no specified starting point mentioned in the sentence. So even if one "has been born" in the past, there is no solid way to tell which came first. IOW, it's not a given that "has been born of God" started before "believes".

I'll give everyone an example: Every American existing in the US has been issued a Social Security Number. Which action came first: existing or has been issued a SSN?

 

[Red Baker]

For all those who do not spit on English grammar, here is where iliterate calvinists go wrong:

Before you call folks illiterate, you need to learn how to spell first! There you go again, embarrassing your yourself.

Of all religious folks, the Calvinism is known to have some of the brightest minds that religion has ever seen~not that that is a proof of anything, other than some very bright minds have embraced the doctrine of free justification by God's grace alone through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.

Some of the world's prestigious institutions of higher learning were started by men who believe in the doctrines of pure grace.

Harvard~by John Harvard, Calvinist... https://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=190

Yale~According to the early histories of Yale, a group of ten ministers led by the James Pierpont of New Haven met in nearby Branford in 1700 to found a college. Each minister presented a donation of books, stating, “I give these books for the founding [of] a College in this Colony, All Calvinist.

Princeton~Jonathan Edwards (1703-58), who served as Princeton's third president. He needs no introduction!

University of Pennsylvania~ Started George Whitefield a Calvinist.

Others as well, for the list is long.

 

[synergy]

Before you call folks illiterate, you need to learn how to spell first! There you go again, embarrassing your yourself.

Of all religious folks, the Calvinism is known to have some of the brightest minds that religion has ever seen~not that that is a proof of anything, other than some very bright minds have embraced the doctrine of free justification by God's grace alone through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.

Some of the world's prestigious institutions of higher learning were started by men who believe in the doctrines of pure grace.

Harvard~by John Harvard, Calvinist... https://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=190

Yale~According to the early histories of Yale, a group of ten ministers led by the James Pierpont of New Haven met in nearby Branford in 1700 to found a college. Each minister presented a donation of books, stating, “I give these books for the founding [of] a College in this Colony, All Calvinist.

Princeton~Jonathan Edwards (1703-58), who served as Princeton's third president. He needs no introduction!

University of Pennsylvania~ Started George Whitefield a Calvinist.

Others as well, for the list is long.

It's very telling that you never forwarded anything about what they said about 1 John 5:1. Carry on with your wallowing in the calvinist cesspool of English grammer ignorance.

 

[Red Baker]

It's very telling that you never forwarded anything about what they said about 1 John 5:1. Carry on with your wallowing in the calvinist cesspool of English grammer ignorance.

As a side note, not that it matters much with me, yet you are the one that keeps saying how ignorance Calvinist are concerning the English language~ again you misspelled grammar!

On a more serious note~Your memory is seriously impaired.

Instead of copying and pasting what biased calvinists dictate

1st John 5:1 was the first scripture he discussed.

I'm finished talking with you on this subject, your spirit does not deserve the attention of God's children. Solomon said:

Proverbs 26:4~Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.​

Fool do not deserve answers. We should save the pain, trouble and waste of precious time dealing with such people like you by ignoring your saucy, stupid, or scornful remarks. God's children should take the high road of truth and wisdom and refuse to stoop to a fool's haughty, insolence, or lazy ignorance. Answers are not right to anyone~they are a privilege only for those meeting certain conditions for truth.

Christians know it is wrong to debate with fools. They do not deserve knowledge or truth. Wisdom is too precious to waste on them. Wise men have better uses of their time. And arguing is a fleshly lust. For these reasons, it is a sin to debate with men who do not clearly display godly character and conduct. If we debate them, we honor their foolish ignorance.

We should say enough to shut their mouths, but anything more is folly and sin (Pr 26:5). They deserve no honor (Pr 26:1), and only a beating will truly help them (Pr 26:3). To keep them from thinking they are right, we may briefly refute their idiotic notions. Truth does not back down from any, but it has no obligation to waste its time on any, either.

You have proven if a child of God debates truth with a fool, he will first despise our wise words and ridicule the precious things you tell him (Pr 23:9). We will degrade the truth by letting fool mock and reproach it. Fools will then twist our words and use them against us, because their heart is corrupt with hate and violence against the truth. (Is 29:20-21). We will Leave fools alone, and let them rot.

Jesus plainly confirmed Solomon by teaching, “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you” (Matt 7:6). Jesus often rebuked the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, lawyers, and scribes of His day, but He strictly avoided any foolish wrangling with them.

 

[Rockson]

Christians know it is wrong to debate with fools. They do not deserve knowledge or truth. Wisdom is too precious to waste on them. Wise men have better uses of their time. And arguing is a fleshly lust.

OK well you don't hold back from labelling others who don't agree with not such a good term. It might be wise for you to look in the mirror and make sure your not guilty of being this yourself.

We should say enough to shut their mouths, but anything more is folly and sin (Pr 26:5).

So what is this going to mean about you in the future? That you're just going to put down your lines to indoctrinate and never allow yourself to be tested and give answers to questions?

 

[synergy]

As a side note, not that it matters much with me, yet you are the one that keeps saying how ignorance Calvinist are concerning the English language~ again you misspelled grammar!

On a more serious note~Your memory is seriously impaired.


1st John 5:1 was the first scripture he discussed.

I'm finished talking with you on this subject, your spirit does not deserve the attention of God's children. Solomon said:

Proverbs 26:4~Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.​

Fool do not deserve answers. We should save the pain, trouble and waste of precious time dealing with such people like you by ignoring your saucy, stupid, or scornful remarks. God's children should take the high road of truth and wisdom and refuse to stoop to a fool's haughty, insolence, or lazy ignorance. Answers are not right to anyone~they are a privilege only for those meeting certain conditions for truth.

Christians know it is wrong to debate with fools. They do not deserve knowledge or truth. Wisdom is too precious to waste on them. Wise men have better uses of their time. And arguing is a fleshly lust. For these reasons, it is a sin to debate with men who do not clearly display godly character and conduct. If we debate them, we honor their foolish ignorance.

We should say enough to shut their mouths, but anything more is folly and sin (Pr 26:5). They deserve no honor (Pr 26:1), and only a beating will truly help them (Pr 26:3). To keep them from thinking they are right, we may briefly refute their idiotic notions. Truth does not back down from any, but it has no obligation to waste its time on any, either.

You have proven if a child of God debates truth with a fool, he will first despise our wise words and ridicule the precious things you tell him (Pr 23:9). We will degrade the truth by letting fool mock and reproach it. Fools will then twist our words and use them against us, because their heart is corrupt with hate and violence against the truth. (Is 29:20-21). We will Leave fools alone, and let them rot.

Jesus plainly confirmed Solomon by teaching, “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you” (Matt 7:6). Jesus often rebuked the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, lawyers, and scribes of His day, but He strictly avoided any foolish wrangling with them.

So typical of calvinists to resort to ad hominems when they are cornered on their heresies. I was called everything derogatory under the sun in another forum so I'm totally used to that treatment from calvinists. Your pagan god dictates that you do so when cornered.

You see you could have quoted your illustrious teachers and rebuked me, but no you didn't because you realized that you could not argue against English or Greek grammar. It is never too late to forsake the calvinist pagan side that wallows in the cesspool of English grammar ignorance.

 

[dwight92070]

Nope the gift is singular and eternal life - salvation

Nope salvation is the gift

The gift is singular and is salvation

Romans 6:23 (ESV) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Faith remains your responsibility

Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 2:37–38 (ESV) — 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 6:28–35 (ESV) — 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

God has given us a measure of faith. But what we do with that faith is up to us. We can use it wisely, or ignore it. We can cause it to grow through hearing the word. We can direct it toward Jesus, which is what we should do.

 

[Red Baker]

So typical of calvinists to resort to ad hominems when they are cornered on their heresies. I was called everything derogatory under the sun in another forum so I'm totally used to that treatment from calvinists. Your pagan god dictates that you do so when cornered.

You see you could have quoted your illustrious teachers and rebuked me, but no you didn't because you realized that you could not argue against English or Greek grammar. It is never too late to forsake the calvinist pagan side that wallows in the cesspool of English grammar ignorance.

I glad to see you learn how to spell grammar. You are making progress.

So what is this going to mean about you in the future?

I'm finished with this thread, enough said.

That you're just going to put down your lines to indoctrinate and never allow yourself to be tested and give answers to questions?

Rockson, no problem professors testing each other, but enough said on this thread. I'm looking at an eschatology thread to discuss the scriptures at the moment.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/revelation-20-50-questions-to-ask.1608/

 

[synergy]

I glad to see you learn how to spell grammar. You are making progress.

And I see that you paused your infantile ad hominems rant of yours. You can vomit out ad hominems all day long and it doesn't affect me one bit.

I'm finished with this thread, enough said.

Of course you are. Run Red Baker Run from having to confront your poor understanding of English Grammar. It's fascinating that even your illustrious teachers, like Whitefield, fell into the same cesspool of English grammar ignorance.

 

[TomL]

God has given us a measure of faith. But what we do with that faith is up to us. We can use it wisely, or ignore it. We can cause it to grow through hearing the word. We can direct it toward Jesus, which is what we should do.

yes. God in his love made provision for all

 

[brightfame52]

Yet Individual election refers to God's unconditionally choosing in eternity past particular persons to receive saving grace and mercy in time. 1 Tim 1:13

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

1 Pet 2:10

Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

* Notice Paul received Mercy and Not condemnation for his unbelief. This also proves election isn't conditioned on faith.

 

[Biblelesson]

Christ alone mediates our salvation, a salvation founded on God’s grace alone and received through faith alone. Salvation isn’t the result of a person influencing God. In reality, salvation comes to the sinner because from all eternity God elected a people to be His own. Commonly referred to as the "elect".

The doctrine of election depends on the doctrine of God. Eternal in God are His unchanging attributes and His divine counsel containing His sovereign decrees. More general than election, predestination is a term referring to God’s decree by which He sovereignly ordains all things.

Isaiah 46:8–10

[8] “Remember this and stand firm,
recall it to mind, you transgressors,
[9] remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
[10] declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

 

[TomL]

Yet Individual election refers to God's unconditionally choosing in eternity past particular persons to receive saving grace and mercy in time. 1 Tim 1:13

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

1 Pet 2:10

Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

* Notice Paul received Mercy and Not condemnation for his unbelief. This also proves election isn't conditioned on faith.

Paul was elected to be an apostle you were not

further the text does not state Paul was saved in unbelief

Is there no end to your twisting of scripture?

 

[brightfame52]

There is a people in this world called the elect and the ransomed of the Lord, These folks are such a huge multitude that no man can number them yet they are a specific number.

· They are termed “the elect” because they were chosen of God unto eternal life in Christ before the world began.

· These chosen ones are called “the ransomed of the Lord” because they are redeemed by the precious blood of Christ and redeemed from the curse of the law by the blood of God’s dear Son.

Rom 8:33

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Isa 35:10

And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

Rev 7:9

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 5

 

[brightfame52]

The Truth of unconditional election is seen in Rom 9 speaking on the Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

It took place before the vessels were ever born to do any acts, then its declared to be , then look at Vs 16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

The false religions of man says it is of the person that willeth !

Its declared to be not of works which covers a wide variety of conditions Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Rom11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[Red Baker]

The Truth of unconditional election is seen in Rom 9 speaking on the Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

It took place before the vessels were ever born to do any acts, then its declared to be , then look at Vs 16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

The false religions of man says it is of the person that willeth !

Its declared to be not of works which covers a wide variety of conditions Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Rom11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 9

letgodbetrue.com

 

[TomL]

The Truth of unconditional election is seen in Rom 9 speaking on the Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

It took place before the vessels were ever born to do any acts, then its declared to be , then look at Vs 16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

The false religions of man says it is of the person that willeth !

Its declared to be not of works which covers a wide variety of conditions Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Rom11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

But not unconditional election to salvation but rather the choice of a lineage through which God would use to bring his message to the world and bring in the Christ

The Calvinist assumes his position