Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[Believe]

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me WILL come to Me

The Father gives some to Jesus, and there is no chance that they will not come to Jesus. They SHALL come to Jesus.

and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
And Jesus WILL not reject even one of them. If the Father gives you to Jesus, you WILL come to Jesus and be saved.

The question is, what is opposed to All that the Father gives Me? Those the Father does NOT give Jesus.

That's why "world" cannot mean everyone without exception.

What about "ALL" In John 6:37. How does that get translated into "SOME".

There is no doubt that God works to bring people to saving faith, That's what the gospel is for. Then there's that little thing called "free will" comes into play. Since we're not robots and God gives us free will and after we hear the gospel we can choose to accept Jesus or not to accept Jesus.

The second part of the verse is about eternal security "and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."
Then there's this:

Thankfully, the Bible is abundantly clear on how a person can be saved. The Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30). Paul and Silas responded, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31).

Paul makes it pretty straightforward and I doubt that the guy that wrote most of the New Testament would lie about salvation. So you don't have to belong to any particular group Like the "All or the Some" You just need to believe in Jesus.

And actually you can be chosen and not come to Jesus, Yep that's right I'm talking about Judas. The guy who betrayed Jesus.

 

[civic]

What about "ALL" In John 6:37. How does that get translated into "SOME".

There is no doubt that God works to bring people to saving faith, That's what the gospel is for. Then there's that little thing called "free will" comes into play. Since we're not robots and God gives us free will and after we hear the gospel we can choose to accept Jesus or not to accept Jesus.

The second part of the verse is about eternal security "and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."
Then there's this:

Thankfully, the Bible is abundantly clear on how a person can be saved. The Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30). Paul and Silas responded, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31).

Paul makes it pretty straightforward and I doubt that the guy that wrote most of the New Testament would lie about salvation. So you don't have to belong to any particular group Like the "All or the Some" You just need to believe in Jesus.

And actually you can be chosen and not come to Jesus, Yep that's right I'm talking about Judas. The guy who betrayed Jesus.

Chosen and elect does not mean saved as they equivocate them.

 

[TomL]

Of course, men are converted and joined themselves to other believers at different times during the generation in which they live. This does not negate the truth that all were chosen in Christ from before the foundation of the world, or from all eternity. Paul also said:

Not chosen to be in Christ

Rather those that would be in Christ were chosen to be holy and blameless

Nowhere do we read men were unconditionally chosen for salvation

 

[Believe]

@civic

Yup, and we know from Scripture and the good news of the gospel, that God wills for all to have an opportunity to be saved by faith in Christ.
The offer of salvation is unconditional, whereas the experience of salvation by an individual is conditioned upon grace-enabled faith.

And that repentance [with a view to and as the condition of] forgiveness of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:47.

And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38

Many verses show us the accuracy of this understanding of salvation. Man’s part in salvation is seen repeatedly in the book of Acts.

 

[civic]

@civic

Yup, and we know from Scripture and the good news of the gospel, that God wills for all to have an opportunity to be saved by faith in Christ.
The offer of salvation is unconditional, whereas the experience of salvation by an individual is conditioned upon grace-enabled faith.

And that repentance [with a view to and as the condition of] forgiveness of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:47.

And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38

Many verses show us the accuracy of this understanding of salvation. Man’s part in salvation is seen repeatedly in the book of Acts.

Amen

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Thankfully, the Bible is abundantly clear on how a person can be saved. The Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30). Paul and Silas responded, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31).

That's perfectly true. What must you do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus. But that verse doesn't tell you why one person believes and another does not. John 6:37 does tell you. All who the Father gives to Jesus SHALL come to Him. And Jesus will NEVER reject any of them.

 

[TomL]

You guys just don't understand Calvinism. World means only the elect.

Reformed theologians like to argue that “world” in John 3:16 refers to the elect.
From Dr. John W. Tweeddale an academic dean and professor of theology at Reformation Bible College in Sanford, Fla., and a teaching elder in the Presbyterian Church in America.

Of they have no lexical support

or contextual support

John 3:16–17 (NASB 2020) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.

The world Christ was given for was the world that might be saved

To define world turn to the parallel passage at

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

where world includes any that do not believe

 

[TomL]

That's perfectly true. What must you do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus. But that verse doesn't tell you why one person believes and another does not. John 6:37 does tell you. All who the Father gives to Jesus SHALL come to Him. And Jesus will NEVER reject any of them.

What you miss

The Father was giving to Jesus those that were his during the time Christ was on earth

John 17:1–8 (KJV 1900) — 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Nothing is stated about unconditional election

 

[Believe]

That's perfectly true. What must you do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus. But that verse doesn't tell you why one person believes and another does not. John 6:37 does tell you. All who the Father gives to Jesus SHALL come to Him. And Jesus will NEVER reject any of them.

We're talking about the gospel call here. All the people on earth past and present and future are able to believe that Jesus’ death on the cross was the perfect and complete payment for our sin 1 John 2:2. He took the consequences we deserved. Jesus’ resurrection from the dead demonstrated that His death was indeed the perfectly sufficient sacrifice for sin. That's how we're saved.

And once again the second half of that verse is talking about eternal security not salvation.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

We're talking about the gospel call here. All the people on earth past and present and future are able to believe that Jesus’ death on the cross was the perfect and complete payment for our sin 1 John 2:2. He took the consequences we deserved. Jesus’ resurrection from the dead demonstrated that His death was indeed the perfectly sufficient sacrifice for sin. That's how we're saved.

And once again the second half of that verse is talking about eternal security not salvation.

Jesus Himself disagrees with you.

65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

 

[civic]

We're talking about the gospel call here. All the people on earth past and present and future are able to believe that Jesus’ death on the cross was the perfect and complete payment for our sin 1 John 2:2. He took the consequences we deserved. Jesus’ resurrection from the dead demonstrated that His death was indeed the perfectly sufficient sacrifice for sin. That's how we're saved.

And once again the second half of that verse is talking about eternal security not salvation.

Notice one verse ripped from its context used to support an entire doctrine. That’s terrible hermeneutics.

 

[TomL]

Jesus Himself disagrees with you.

65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

How granted

John 6:45 (KJV 1900) — 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Believe]

Jesus Himself disagrees with you.

65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

When they accept the gospel Of Jesus Christ Salvation has been granted to them. It was God's plan from the beginning... the plan of salvation for mankind. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

I agree with Jesus when he says:

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 11:28-29

This is an open invitation, extended to ALL those who are willing to come.

 

[dwight92070]

Show me one verse that states Christ is the elect. Not a verse that says "elect in Christ", which refers to saved people, but a verse that specifically says Christ is THE elect.

1 Peter 2:4 "Coming to Him (Jesus), who is choice (in Greek - 1588 in the Strong's- "eklektos" it means "select" or "chosen") and precious in the sight of God," Out of the 8 times the word "elect" is found in the New Testament, all 8 of them use this same Greek word.

1 Peter 2:6 "Behold, I lay in Zion a choice (same word as above) stone (Jesus), a precious corner stone, ..."

Luke 9:35 "Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, 'This is My Son, My Chosen One (Jesus)(1586 in the Strong's - "eklego" the same root word means "to select").

Luke 23:35 " ... let Him save Himself, if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One (1588 again "select" or "chosen") Of course this was the Jewish rulers speaking here, but they knew what was said about Him, that He was God's Chosen or Elect One.

There you have 4 verses that tell us that Jesus was God's Elect.

So those of us who are in Christ are also God's elect. In fact, the ONLY reason we are God's elect is because we are in Christ. Those who are NOT in Christ are NOT His elect. The choice is ours to either be in Him or not. He will not make that choice for you, as the Calvinists mistakenly claim.

 

[dwight92070]

What you miss

The Father was giving to Jesus those that were his during the time Christ was on earth

John 17:1–8 (KJV 1900) — 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Nothing is stated about unconditional election

The men whom the Father gave Jesus were the one's that already followed and loved God before Jesus started His ministry- like Joseph and His mother Mary, the parent's of John the Baptist and John Himself, Jesus' apostles, Simeon, Anna, and many godly people in Israel. They belonged to the Father, but He gave them to His Son when He entered His ministry.
They were not some lucky people who God sovereignly and unconditionally, chose whether they wanted that or not.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

When they accept the gospel Of Jesus Christ Salvation has been granted to them. It was God's plan from the beginning... the plan of salvation for mankind. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

So, AFTER they come to Jesus, God grants them the ability to come to Jesus? Got it.

 

[TomL]

The men whom the Father gave Jesus were the one's that already followed and loved God before Jesus started His ministry- like Joseph and His mother Mary, the parent's of John the Baptist and John Himself, Jesus' apostles, Simeon, Anna, and many godly people in Israel. They belonged to the Father, but He gave them to His Son when He entered His ministry.
They were not some lucky people who God sovereignly and unconditionally, chose whether they wanted that or not.

Yes! These were not unconditionally select men who formerly had no relationship with God and were irresistibly converted

 

[TomL]

The treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !

Sorry there is nothing anywhere which speak of unconditional election to salvation

It is only your misinterpretations which lead you to believe otherwise

You assume God applies his saving mercy indiscriminately, when the context of Romans shows righteousness is based on faith.

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

 

[brightfame52]

Wake up and respond to what was written

His body is

Elect in him

not as Calvinism teaches apart from Christ.

Now can He as the Head be Elect and His Body not ? Thats like saying a persons head is elect but his legs and other body members are not,

If Christ is Gods Elect/chosen, which He is 1 Pet 2:4

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

Then so is His Members the Chosen 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Its the same greek word , because they are His Seed/Generation

So if Christ is Gods Elect, so is His Seed, Generation

 

[brightfame52]

You did not address this

The problem is one is not Christ until they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB 2020) — 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise,

and until they do

Ephesians 2:11–12 (NASB 2020) — 11 Therefore remember that previously you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision” which is performed in the flesh by human hands—12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

So any claim men are in Christ in eternity is just unbiblical

additionally

Romans 16:7 (NASB 2020) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsfolk and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding in the view of the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

also refuted your claim

Being in Adam wasnt conditional, neither was being in Christ.