Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[brightfame52]

Sorry there is nothing anywhere which speak of unconditional election to salvation

It is only your misinterpretations which lead you to believe otherwise

You assume God applies his saving mercy indiscriminately, when the context of Romans shows righteousness is based on faith.

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

This statement by Paul should forever put to rest and prove that election to Salvation is unconditional Rom 9:11

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

 

[TomL]

This statement by Paul should forever put to rest and prove that election to Salvation is unconditional Rom 9:11

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Not if you know how to read in context

Salvation is not mentioned there, you just assume it.

But the birthright - the service of God which is view. The selection of Israel as opposed to Edom for the task

As was stated

Sorry there is nothing anywhere which speaks of unconditional election to salvation

It is only your misinterpretations which lead you to believe otherwise

You assume God applies his saving mercy indiscriminately, when the context of Romans shows righteousness is based on faith.

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

One was not declared righteous unconditionally but based upon their faith.

 

[TomL]

Being in Adam wasnt conditional, neither was being in Christ.

Scripture refutes you

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

it is clearly conditional

 

[TomL]

Now can He as the Head be Elect and His Body not ? Thats like saying a persons head is elect but his legs and other body members are not,

If Christ is Gods Elect/chosen, which He is 1 Pet 2:4

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

Then so is His Members the Chosen 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Its the same greek word , because they are His Seed/Generation

So if Christ is Gods Elect, so is His Seed, Generation

Election to holiness and blamelessness is in Christ

Because Calvinism hold to that election outside of Christ it is unbiblical

 

[brightfame52]

Not if you know how to read in context

Salvation is not mentioned there, you just assume it.

But the birthright - the service of God which is view. The selection of Israel as opposed to Edom for the task

As was stated

Sorry there is nothing anywhere which speaks of unconditional election to salvation

It is only your misinterpretations which lead you to believe otherwise

You assume God applies his saving mercy indiscriminately, when the context of Romans shows righteousness is based on faith.

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

One was not declared righteous unconditionally but based upon their faith.

This statement by Paul should forever put to rest and prove that election to Salvation is unconditional Rom 9:11

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

 

[brightfame52]

Scripture refutes you

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

it is clearly conditional

Being in Adam wasnt conditional, neither was being in Christ.

 

[Red Baker]

Sorry there is nothing anywhere which speak of unconditional election to salvation

By making such a statement proves to me and should to others that you know nothing about the New Covenant. You like Cain still think you must bring the fruits of your own labor as an offering unto God in order to be accepted by him. That's old covenant theology that Christ fulfilled for God's elect. He cried out and said that it was finished, why are you desiring to add to what Christ secured for his people? The reason why is that you truly do not believe he secured eternal redemption by his perfect life of obedience for the members of his elect body. He does not need your filthy works mixed with his perfect works of obedience, that the gospel proclaims as the only righteousness that God has provided and will ever accept, as the means of the forgiveness of our sins.

Romans 3:21-24~"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"

Free justification is not in any work performed by man~in any work that man has an active part in.

Please explain the so-called conditions of the New Covenant in your Old covenant theology for I know that is where you will begin with and end with, with a little mixture of Christ here and there to make it seem to be scriptural, but you are only deceiving yourself and a few of your friends who believe the same.

 

[Red Baker]

When they accept the gospel Of Jesus Christ Salvation has been granted to them. It was God's plan from the beginning... the plan of salvation for mankind. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

I agree with Jesus when he says:

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 11:28-29

This is an open invitation, extended to ALL those who are willing to come.

Briefly~I read all the posts above, but will only make a comment or two, since most of what is said above, is too elementary to waste time on, besides, most would go right over the head of those that posted based of the shallow verbiage used.

When they accept the gospel Of Jesus Christ Salvation has been granted to them. It was God's plan from the beginning... the plan of salvation for mankind. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Do you know that the majority of the world that has ever lived pre Christ never heard of Jesus Christ~even the apostles, knew nothing about the purpose of Jesus' coming into the world until after he had risen from the dead~so, the message of Christ and him crucified is not what gets folks regenerated! Regeneration is prior to all spiritual acts performed by man~regeneration is a work of God's Spirit, creating a new man within each and every child of God's promises, and from that point forward they have power to hear, see and believe, but not until then.

I agree with Jesus when he says:

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 11:28-29

This is an open invitation, extended to ALL those who are willing to come.

These words were spoken to those few who God had already given power to believe and follow Christ. Even the context shows this:

Matthew 11:25-29~"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

So, it is an open invitation, to those which have been FIRST given to Christ, for they alone are laboring and heavy laden with the enemies of Christ............. sin, the world and the Devil. They alone know that coming to Christ and putting their burdens on him in doing so, then they shall find inner rest for their weary souls as they travel through the enemies country on their way to the promised land. Selah.

 

[TomL]

By making such a statement proves to me and should to others that you know nothing about the New Covenant. You like Cain still think you must bring the fruits of your own labor as an offering unto God in order to be accepted by him. That's old covenant theology that Christ fulfilled for God's elect. He cried out and said that it was finished, why are you desiring to add to what Christ secured for his people? The reason why is that you truly do not believe he secured eternal redemption by his perfect life of obedience for the members of his elect body. He does not need your filthy works mixed with his perfect works of obedience, that the gospel proclaims as the only righteousness that God has provided and will ever accept, as the means of the forgiveness of our sins.


Free justification is not in any work performed by man~in any work that man has an active part in.

Please explain the so-called conditions of the New Covenant in your Old covenant theology for I know that is where you will begin with and end with, with a little mixture of Christ here and there to make it seem to be scriptural, but you are only deceiving yourself and a few of your friends who believe the same.

Sorry, you offer only rhetoric. You have not posted a single verse which actually speaks of unconditional salvation.

All spiritual blessing relating to soteriology are in Christ

That you fail to recognize this shows you really have no idea what you are talking about and do not propagate biblical doctrine.

Your false doctrine propagates election and regeneration apart from Christ, thus it is false


',

 

[TomL]

Being in Adam wasnt conditional, neither was being in Christ.

Sorry scripture refuted you

Scripture refutes you

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

it is clearly conditional

and you clearly expound unbiblical doctrine

 

[TomL]

This statement by Paul should forever put to rest and prove that election to Salvation is unconditional Rom 9:11

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Not if you know how to read in context

Salvation is not mentioned there, you just assume it.

But the birthright - the service of God which is view. The selection of Israel as opposed to Edom for the task

As was stated

Sorry there is nothing anywhere which speaks of unconditional election to salvation

It is only your misinterpretations which lead you to believe otherwise

You assume God applies his saving mercy indiscriminately, when the context of Romans shows righteousness is based on faith.

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

One was not declared righteous unconditionally but based upon their faith.

Your theology is built by false assumptions.

 

[Red Baker]

Sorry, you offer only rhetoric.

At

Sorry, you offer only rhetoric.

At least my post has scriptural rhetoric supporting my understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Rhetoric is the art of using language (scriptural in this case) which is designed to motivate, persuade, or inform.

You have not posted a single verse which actually speaks of unconditional salvation.

I have several times over. Tom, if salvation from sin and condemnation is not 100% unconditional, then the so-called grace being preached ceases to be the true grace of God wherein the very elect stand.

1st Peter 5:12,13~"By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand. The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son."

Election of grace took place before the foundation of the world, which excludes all works on man's part ~ the whole family of God was elected TOGETHER AS ONE BODY, there grace was freely given to us in Christ.

2nd Timothy 1:9~"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"

Two great apostles teaching the same truth, a truth that you desipe and reject. You might want to reconsider your understanding of this truth of the word of God. I do not expect you will, and you will not, unless God opens your understanding. With God, all things are possible.

 

[Red Baker]

Not if you know how to read in context

Salvation is not mentioned there, you just assume it.

I'll allow the gentleman you posted to to answer first, and then I will prove t5he language of Romans nine can only be applied to salvation from sin and condemnation.

We shall see who can read context and who are very biased in protecting their false gospel.

 

[Doug Brents]

Election of grace took place before the foundation of the world, which excludes all works on man's part ~ the whole family of God was elected TOGETHER AS ONE BODY, there grace was freely given to us in Christ.

On what basis were the "elect" elected before the foundation of the world? On the basis of God's foreknowledge of who was faithful to Him (Rom 8:28-30). "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

On what basis were the "elect" elected before the foundation of the world? On the basis of God's foreknowledge of who was faithful to Him (Rom 8:28-30). "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."

It says those whom he foreknew, as opposed to "depart from me, I never knew you", not those he foreknew would choose to be faithful.

If it was "those he foreknew would choose to be faithful" then there would be no point in predestinating them for anything. They were already going to choose to be faithful.

 

[Doug Brents]

It says those whom he foreknew, as opposed to "depart from me, I never knew you", not those he foreknew would choose to be faithful.

If it was "those he foreknew would choose to be faithful" then there would be no point in predestinating them for anything. They were already going to choose to be faithful.

Ahh, by this you betray the belief that it is the being faithful that brought about righteousness. It is not. Those who God knew would be faithful and choose Him He predestined to become co-heirs with Christ. And it is He who chose to give to those who obey Him the gift that only Jesus could give: righteousness in His place as He took the condemnation of sin in our place.

 

[Red Baker]

On what basis were the "elect" elected before the foundation of the world? On the basis of God's foreknowledge of who was faithful to Him (Rom 8:28-30). "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."

Let us test your understanding with God's word.

Romans 8:28~"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose."

This is a further description or characteristic of God’s people. They are called not merely outwardly by the preaching of the Gospel, for this is common to them with unbelievers, but called also by the Spirit, with an internal and effectual calling, and made willing in the day of God’s power. They are called according to God’s eternal purpose, according to which He knew them, and purposed their calling before they were in existence; for all God’s purposes are eternal. It imports that their calling is solely the effect of grace; for when it is said to be a calling according to God’s purpose, it is distinguished from a calling according to works.

You are so wrong thinking the calling of the children of God's promises was determined by their faithfulness to him, that is totally twisting the scriptures around attempting to make them say what you desire for them to say to try to convince others of your false gospel, based upon man's works.

Romans 8:29~"For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."

For whom.

The coordinating conjunction for shows this verse explains his purpose
for the called (8:28). Our sonship (8:14), future glory (8:17), and future adoption (8:23) are by God’s purpose. Eternal glory in heaven is not by possibility, proposal, proposition, provision, or appeal. His purpose is exalted above all other aspects (Rom 9:11,17; Eph 1:11; 3:11; II Tim 1:9).

Foreknowledge does not lead to God’s purpose, but rather God’s purpose to foreknowledge! God’s purpose begins in foreknowledge, which is beyond omniscience; it is love beforehand! The Spirit’s carefully chosen words say it is whom He foreknew, not what He foreknew.

To know in the Bible has another sense different from bare knowledge, one of special affection, approval, benevolence, and design (Gen 4:1; Psalm 1:6; Jer 1:5; Amos 3:2). He shall deny He ever knew the wicked – He never loved them (Matt 7:23; Ps 5:5; 11:5). He loved His elect from everlasting, and He always shall (Jeremiah 31:3; Eph 1:4; 5:25). These are the elect that Paul will identify by the same root in a future chapter (Rom 11:2). God’s choice and love of the elect also predestinated them to adoption (see Eph 1:3-6).

He also did predestinate.

God’s purpose toward His elect builds from affectionate foreknowledge to predestination. It is not our choice to believe predestination or not. It is a Bible doctrine by revelation.

What does it mean? It means God determined and guaranteed our destination beforehand. In this particular context the destination is glorification in heaven as the sons of God. In the other uses of the word, it is also our adoption and inheritance as sons (Eph 1:5,11).

Man is so arrogant that he assumes he has the right to make all choices of heaven or the lake of fire, though he forfeited them in Eden and all other life aspects are by a choice made for him! Man in Eden and every day chooses his future destiny – the lake of fire.

Arminians have God predestinating men to destruction just as much as any doctrine of salvation.

There is no logical way to believe the God of the Bible and reject predestination of men. If God knows all that will happen on certain conditions, why did He bring them to pass? If God knew who would not believe on Christ and be saved, why in the world did He create them knowing this certain outcome? He predestinated them to damnation.

But the Arminian confuses things horrifically by having God frustrated, trying to save them, and loving them as much as those in heaven. How is this love by a perfect Being? Predestination precedes, rather than follows, conforming, for it is unconditional election!

When God viewed man, He saw no man seeking Him or doing righteousness (Ps 14:1-3).

It is God’s predestination that brings about His work in us that changes us (Phil 2:12-13).

Before predestination can occur, the objects of it must be chosen and segregated, which is understood by God’s purpose (8:28) and foreknowledge (8:29) and many other scriptures.

To be conformed.

Predestination does not lead to presumption, Fatalism, or carnality as our opponents claim, because the object of predestination and the evidence of predestination are Christ-likeness! The ignorant or the malicious charge predestinarians with Fatalism or antinomianism, for they despise the doctrine and do not want to consider a truly Biblical explanation of it. A popular, easy way to reject predestination is to say, “Then I could live any way I wish.” Predestination’s goal is clear, and present grace agrees with it (Phil 2:12-16; Tit 2:11-14). Predestination’s evidence is clear, and it bears present fruit (I Thess 1:2-4; II Pet 1:5-11). This is the object of our predestination, which cannot be a condition for it, by definition! Believe the truth of predestination, but it will do nothing for you like conformation will.

This conforming is God’s work resulting in us glorified like Christ (8:17-18,30; I John 3:2).

To the image of His Son.

The image of a thing is its likeness or resemblance (Luk 20:24; I Cor 11:7; 15:49; Heb 10:1). Jesus is the image of God: the visible likeness of Him (Jn 1:14; II Co 4:4; Co 15; He 1:3). Jesus is the image of God, so our conforming to Him is conforming to God, our Father.

That He might be the firstborn.

While we will be conformed in many respects to be like our Lord, we shall not be equals. Among all the many children in God’s family, Jesus will be very preeminent (Col 1:18)!

Among many brethren.

God’s purpose in creation and saving sinners is to build a great family with Christ (Ep 3:14). The drama of the whole universe is God’s display of saving grace in perfecting sinners!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Ahh, by this you betray the belief that it is the being faithful that brought about righteousness. It is not. Those who God knew would be faithful and choose Him He predestined to become co-heirs with Christ. And it is He who chose to give to those who obey Him the gift that only Jesus could give: righteousness in His place as He took the condemnation of sin in our place.

Explain "I never knew you". According to you, that must mean, "I never knew you'd would be faithful".

And see above @Red Baker "for whom". That tells you it's knowing the person, not knowing about the person.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry scripture refuted you

Scripture refutes you

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

it is clearly conditional

and you clearly expound unbiblical doctrine

Being in Adam wasn't conditional, neither was being in Christ. You think man naturally had a choice on whether or not he would be in Adam in the beginning ? The elect were in Christ before in Adam, Christ has the preeminence in all things including Headship Col 1 :17-18

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Do you believe Adam was a head of people before Christ ?

 

[TomL]

Being in Adam wasn't conditional, neither was being in Christ. You think man naturally had a choice on whether or not he would be in Adam in the beginning ? The elect were in Christ before in Adam, Christ has the preeminence in all things including Headship Col 1 :17-18

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Do you believe Adam was a head of people before Christ ?

You fail to deal with scripture

Sorry scripture refuted you

Scripture refutes you

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

it is clearly conditional

and because that is so, your doctrine is unbiblical