Doctrine of Unconditional Election

Doug Brents said:
Your presupposition that the "saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith," is a Biblically false presupposition. Consider Eph 2:8-9 which says exactly the opposite of your assumption.

And your presupposition that "the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever" is also a Biblically false presupposition. Consider 1 Pet 1:1-2 - "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who reside as strangers, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you."
How were the chosen (elect) determined? according to the foreknowledge of God. What did He foreknow? Everything! He knew before He created the universe everything that would happen in the universe that He was about to create. His knowledge is so vast, that even before He created Adam, He knew your name. Even before He made the Sun, He knew what you would have for breakfast this morning. He never didn't know who would obey Him, and so on the basis of what He already knew, He chose to save those who obeyed Him in faith.

Consider also Rom 8:29. "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters;"
People like to talk about our predestination, but predestination is based on God's foreknowledge of us. Again, He knew before He created the universe that there were some who would accept Him, and obey Him, and be His.
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We know you are the apostle of works salvation.
 
civic said:
your post is in error as Jesus died for everyone not just some.

Jesus died for all is what he Bible teaches not just some elect group- thats heresy.
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I will address your post first thing in the morning~the Lord wi8lling.... every single reference which many are the same as your "amen" partner~Tom
 
Doug Brents said:
Your presupposition that the "saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith," is a Biblically false presupposition. Consider Eph 2:8-9 which says exactly the opposite of your assumption.
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Doug, you and many others fail miserably understanding Ephesians 2:8,9. The only good thing is, you have a lot of company on this broad road you are traveling.

I might not get finished with you today, since one of my grandsons has a High School track meet that I need to go to, even though I'm not looking forward to it. When you have ten grandsons and eight grand daughters they can run you wild trying to please all of them.

Ephesians 2:8,9~" For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
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God's elect are saved legally by God's grace in his election of his people. We were saved by faith, not ours, but by Jesus' faith/obedience/righteousness, the only person in whom God was well pleased in. This faith was God's gift to us by his grace, on the behalf of what Christ secured for his people.......... Consider, one or two scriptures for now:

Romans 3:22​


“Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:”
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Philippians 1:28,29~"And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"
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Doug Brents said:
And your presupposition that "the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever" is also a Biblically false presupposition. Consider 1 Pet 1:1-2 - "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who reside as strangers, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you."
How were the chosen (elect) determined? according to the foreknowledge of God. What did He foreknow? Everything! He knew before He created the universe everything that would happen in the universe that He was about to create. His knowledge is so vast, that even before He created Adam, He knew your name. Even before He made the Sun, He knew what you would have for breakfast this morning. He never didn't know who would obey Him, and so on the basis of what He already knew, He chose to save those who obeyed Him in faith.
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Later...RB
 
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Doug Brents said:
And your presupposition that "the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever" is also a Biblically false presupposition.
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Doug, have you never so much as considered Paul's teaching when he said:
Romans 9:8-11~"That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)"
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Children of God are children not by their good, or evil, but solely by being children of God's promises and his oath!

Question for you to answer: what did Isaac do to cause him to be born? No one thing~Paul again said:
Galatians 4:28~"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise."
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Why are you and others here fighting against the teachings of the word of God, by laboring to insert your own works into salvation from sin and condemnation, as though you have the power to cause your new birth~which none does, no more than Isaac had to cause himself to be born. The analogy is a perfect picture of the sinner's new birth by God's Spirit alone apart from all works performed by man. You are fighting agains tthe word of God and you will lose this battle every time.

Doug Brents said:
Consider 1 Pet 1:1-2 - "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as strangers, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you."
Click to expand...

Doug Brents said:
How were the chosen (elect) determined? according to the foreknowledge of God. What did He foreknow? Everything! He knew before He created the universe everything that would happen in the universe that He was about to create. His knowledge is so vast, that even before He created Adam, He knew your name. Even before He made the Sun, He knew what you would have for breakfast this morning. He never didn't know who would obey Him, and so on the basis of what He already knew, He chose to save those who obeyed Him in faith.
Click to expand...
I will make this short, and if you desire to enlarge upon what I'm going to say, then that's fine with me, I'll respond back.
You understanding goes against so many scriptures, so many! One already quoted above. But there's so many more.
Psalms 14:2,3~"The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
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These scriptures are quoted two more times in the scriptures at length in Romans 3 by Paul to prove all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Here we see what God knew as he looked down from heaven from the beginning to the end! You assumption is against the teachings of the word of God, thereby, false testimony. It is all wishful thinking on your part to protect your golden calf you worship. God will grind it to dust.

I'll tell you what was in God's foreknowledge and it is not hard to see. In God's infinite knowledge, he knew that if he did not elect some to salvation by his grace and provide salvation for them in his Son's obedience and righteousness, then none would have ever came to the truth on their own! Not one. Selah! The same is true concerning the elect angels.
 
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Red Baker said:
God's elect are saved legally by God's grace in his election of his people. We were saved by faith, not ours, but by Jesus' faith/obedience/righteousness, the only person in whom God was well pleased in. This faith was God's gift to us by his grace, on the behalf of what Christ secured for his people.......... Consider, one or two scriptures for now:
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Rom 3:22 - "but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe"
Sorry, it is faith IN Jesus, not the faith of Jesus by which we receive salvation.

Phil 1:28-29 - "and in no way alarmed by your opponents—which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and this too, from God. 29 For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf"
I can see how, if you just study this one passage, you could come to the understanding that we are saved by Jesus' faith, and not through our own. But this understanding does not fit with the rest of Scripture. As noted in Rom 3, it is our faith IN Jesus through which we receive salvation. And going back to Eph 2:8 - " For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God". The gift of God is salvation, not faith. Faith is our response to Him, and we get faith through reading the Word of God and understanding (and then acting upon) His faithfulness throughout history.
 

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