Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[The Rogue Tomato]

Wow. There's so much stupid in this thread. Claiming regeneration before faith makes you a zombie? Fine. I was a zombie for less than a picosecond.

 

[synergy]

Wow. There's so much stupid in this thread. Claiming regeneration before faith makes you a zombie? Fine. I was a zombie for less than a picosecond.

The Calvinist idea of the Living Dead (Regenerated but still Dead in Sins) is indeed theologically "stupid", as you mentioned.

 

[brightfame52]

Your total inability to disprove what I clearly explained conclusively demonstrates for all to see that your religion is for the Zombies. Carry on with your Living Dead evangelism.

False misrepresentation

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

False misrepresentation

Technically, it's just a misrepresentation. False misrepresentation is a double negative.

Or just stick some punctuation in there.

False. Misrepresentation.
False, misrepresentation.

Or, stop lying about what we believe. I like that one.

 

[synergy]

Technically, it's just a misrepresentation. False misrepresentation is a double negative.

Or just stick some punctuation in there.

False. Misrepresentation.
False, misrepresentation.

Or, stop lying about what we believe. I like that one.

Prove that I'm "lying about what [you] believe". BF52 has failed miserably to do so. Otherwise, it's BF that is "lying".

 

[civic]

Wow. There's so much stupid in this thread. Claiming regeneration before faith makes you a zombie? Fine. I was a zombie for less than a picosecond.

You claim they are dead right ?

 

[synergy]

Wow. There's so much stupid in this thread. Claiming regeneration before faith makes you a zombie? Fine. I was a zombie for less than a picosecond.

So in that 1 picosecond, you were able to learn all about Christ and his Gospel, and you fulfilled all belief requirements for your salvation? Wow! AI has nothing on you!

It's either that or God did the believing for you as @Rockson mentioned that other Calvinists claimed earlier.

 

[Red Baker]

Your total inability to disprove what I clearly explained conclusively demonstrates for all to see that your religion is for the Zombies. Carry on with your Living Dead evangelism.

Please do not go anywhere, we shall see who can defend their position, maybe later, maybe tomorrow.

 

[synergy]

Please do not go anywhere, we shall see who can defend their position, maybe later, maybe tomorrow.

All verses that you quoted do not prove the Calvinist idea that you were regenerated (made alive) before you believed (still dead in sin) - a living dead person in other words. Do you seriously want to proclaim that zombie-promoting idea?

 

[civic]

So in that 1 picosecond, you were able to learn all about Christ and his Gospel, and you fulfilled all belief requirements for your salvation? Wow! AI has nothing on you!

It's either that or God did the believing for you as @Rockson mentioned that other Calvinists claimed earlier.

yes their version of dead has humanity as zombies- the walking lifeless dead.

 

[civic]

All verses that you quoted do not prove the Calvinist idea that you were regenerated (made alive) before you believed (still dead in sin) - a living dead person in other words. Do you seriously want to proclaim that zombie-promoting idea?

in a nutshell thats the meaning of dead in calvinism. I use to use that analogy of zombies with non C's on carm and all the calvies would high 5 me and like my posts when I would use that illustration. @armylngst uses that analogy as does many others on the other forum-

I just searched zombie over there and 3 pages came up on the A/C forum. @TomL knows this too. The calvies are in De Nile.

 

[synergy]

in a nutshell thats the meaning of dead in calvinism. I use to use that analogy of zombies with non C's on carm and all the calvies would high 5 me and like my posts when I would use that illustration. @armylngst uses that analogy as does many others on the other forum-

I just searched zombie over there and 3 pages came up on the A/C forum. @TomL knows this too.

That's interesting. Could you summarize how Calvinists and you (back then) used a zombie analogy against non-Calvinists?

 

[civic]

That's interesting. Could you summarize how Calvinists used the zombie analogy against non-Calvinists?

Total depravity and inability who need regeneration to become alive- they also use lazarus as an illustration of dead and his inability to believe until brought back to life(regeneration ). They conflate and equivocate using the word dead and give it a meaning the bible never does. In calvinism these are all synonyms- dead, corpse and zombie.

 

[synergy]

Total depravity and inability who need regeneration to become alive- they also use lazarus as an illustration of dead and his inability to believe until brought back to life(regeneration ). They conflate and equivocate using the word dead and give it a meaning the bible never does.

I still don't see how a non-Calvinist can be accused of being alive and dead at the same time in their theology.

 

[civic]

I still don't see how a non-Calvinist can be accused of being alive and dead at the same time in their theology.

me either it was a blind spot as a former calvinist I can now admit.

 

[synergy]

me either it was a blind spot as a former calvinist I can now admit.

Exactly! The Bible has no blind spot. Calvinist's reliance on paganism has caused them to have multiple blind spots.

 

[civic]

Exactly! The Bible has no blind spot. Calvinist's reliance on paganism has caused them to have multiple blind spots.

It all boils down to pride and hanging onto a systematic theology at all costs when one can see the problems persecuted in the opposing argument. I remember one Arminian in particular who made excellent arguments against me and I would do the typical cakvie thing with the ad homs of focus on a salvific word to distract from the argument that was made and divert the conversation. We see it here all of the time . Or using a passage in isolation ignoring the greater context with sheep, elect , draw , dead, predestined etc….

 

[Red Baker]

Here we go again with the Calvinist idea that one is Regenerated (alive) but not yet a believer (still dead in sins). That's Calvinism's Living Dead state.

Every Calvinist Congregation at night could be deemed the Night of the Living Dead.

synergy~why do you not just address others doctrine instead of lumping all who believe in unconditional salvation into one group whom you label as Calvinist. Calvinism is much like someone being a Baptist, when there are several different types of Baptist. In the Calvinist circle you have some who are Presbyterians, who believe in sprinkling babies; Some are of the Reformed faith, closely connected with Presbyterians; Some are Reformed Baptist, whatever that means, your guess is as good as mine; Some like myself who are of the Particular Baptist, along the teachings of men like Samuel Richardson, John Brine, etc.; and some are like Gill, closely connected with the Particular Baptist, but slightly different; and then you have folks like Jonathan Edwards of the Congressionalist, closely connected with Calvin's group. Calvinism is not one sizes fits all system. And neither is yours btw.

That being said~Calvinism in holding to election of pure grace, we would would say amen, and amen.

As much as you hate Calvinism, I'm assuming you refrain from singing their songs as well. From Newton's Amazing Grace; hundreds of more from Martin Luther, Toplady, Isaac, Watts, William Cowper, and a host of others.

 

[Red Baker]

Here we go again with the Calvinist idea that one is Regenerated (alive) but not yet a believer (still dead in sins). That's Calvinism's Living Dead state.

Every Calvinist Congregation at night could be deemed the Night of the Living Dead.

The word of God is clear, you can be regenerated yet not a believer in certain truths, for whatever reason, faith in certain biblical doctrines comes later after one has been born of God. Surely you do not disagree with this.

Consider this all important Truth: "Did the apostles believe that Jesus came into the world to died for the sins of the world, Jews and Gentiles?"

First, they didn't even understand the reason why he came into the world until after he died and arose again.

Secondly, they certainly did not even consider that the Gentiles were to be part of the election of grace.

Thirdly, the truth is this~they did not hardly believe any sound bible truth until much later, and even then much of Paul's writings were hard for even Peter to grasp a hold of!

Consider:

John 20:8,9~"Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead."

Ephesians 2:11-21~"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

So much could be said, but later, maybe.

2nd Peter 3:15,16~"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

A child of God, born of God's Spirit, grows just like any fleshly newborn child does. Believing truth comes over time, some longer than others yet no one is born again with knowledge of the truth, that's a very slow process of coming, for just about all of God's children.

So, yes one can be born again, with almost no understanding of true bible doctrine~yet, if a child of God, then they will see and know.... all on different levels, that's why we are commanded to show patience and kindness to all remembering our own selves how we too were just like them~maybe even worse.

Titus 3:2,3~"To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

 

[synergy]

synergy~why do you not just address others doctrine instead of lumping all who believe in unconditional salvation into one group whom you label as Calvinist. Calvinism is much like someone being a Baptist, when there are several different types of Baptist. In the Calvinist circle you have some who are Presbyterians, who believe in sprinkling babies; Some are of the Reformed faith, closely connected with Presbyterians; Some are Reformed Baptist, whatever that means, your guess is as good as mine; Some like myself who are of the Particular Baptist, along the teachings of men like Samuel Richardson, John Brine, etc.; and some are like Gill, closely connected with the Particular Baptist, but slightly different; and then you have folks like Jonathan Edwards of the Congressionalist, closely connected with Calvin's group. Calvinism is not one sizes fits all system. And neither is yours btw.

That being said~Calvinism in holding to election of pure grace, we would would say amen, and amen.

As much as you hate Calvinism, I'm assuming you refrain from singing their songs as well. From Newton's Amazing Grace; hundreds of more from Martin Luther, Toplady, Isaac, Watts, William Cowper, and a host of others.

I appreciate you describing all the flavors of the Reformed movement. Goes to show you what happens when everyone and his grandmother designates themselves as a Pope. What an utter schismatic disaster that is. Who will clean it up? Anyways, I don't have the time to go into every single nuance of the utter mess that the Reformed movement has become.