Doctrine of Unconditional Election

I think if a man KNOWS the congregation don't want a Calvinist type of pastor and they proceed to canvas for that place it would be pretty unethical. Without being presumptuous (maybe I am here in saying this) but I think after listening to a person preach for 1-3 month I would pretty much know what they are. There's just certain key word statements if you hear them say them repeatedly then you know what they are.
I agree, the problem is some of us can have the wool pulled over our eyes easier than others. That's obvious by looking at it where the expression came from "Don't drink the Kool-Aid". I have a pretty good BS detector. But I also know that Calvinist can be very clever when reeling in unsuspecting believers.

Just the fact that they place such a high priority on God's sovereignty and that it draws a conclusion that all believers are predestined by God to believe, casting confusion over whether those who place their trust in Jesus Christ as Savior have done so of their own free will.

Unless you've seen Calvinism exposed for what it really is, God's sovereignty sounds like the most holy thing ever.
 
But I also know that Calvinist can be very clever when reeling in unsuspecting believers.
Sure. One thing to look for if a preacher is insistently using a phrase God is in control. There's a place where one can say that fine......but one needs to have a caution light flashing in them to want to know EXACTLY what one means by that.
 
Unless you've seen Calvinism exposed for what it really is, God's sovereignty sounds like the most holy thing ever.
Sure. And many sincere people get sucked into it. The thing that's so deceptive about it is that it seems like the greatest way in which one can show humility to God is by holding that because he's great and all powerful he must control ALL THINGS. To say anything less is not to honor his attribute of omnipotence. They err in not considering that he and most other beings don't consider it honorable to merely pull their weight around and force things because it violates principles of LOVE. LOVE is the missing ingredient that they're missing. And when one misses that they miss the core of everything.
 
Sure. And many sincere people get sucked into it. The thing that's so deceptive about it is that it seems like the greatest way in which one can show humility to God is by holding that because he's great and all powerful he must control ALL THINGS. To say anything less is not to honor his attribute of omnipotence. They err in not considering that he and most other beings don't consider it honorable to merely pull their weight around and force things because it violates principles of LOVE. LOVE is the missing ingredient that they're missing. And when one misses that they miss the core of everything.
That's exactly the problem right there.
 

Article 12: The Assurance of Election​

Assurance of their eternal and unchangeable election to salvation is given to the chosen in due time, though by various stages and in differing measure. Such assurance comes not by inquisitive searching into the hidden and deep things of God, but by noticing within themselves, with spiritual joy and holy delight, the unmistakable fruits of election pointed out in God’s Word—such as a true faith in Christ, a childlike fear of God, a godly sorrow for their sins, a hunger and thirst for righteousness, and so on.
 
Unconditional election; this means that God does not foresee an action or condition on our part that causes Him to save us. Rather election rests on God’s sovereign decision to save whomever He is pleased to save according to the good pleasure of His own will. This salvation based on His Sovereign purpose of election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) 4
 
God shows no partiality. (Acts 10:34-35; Rom. 2:11; 10:12; Eph. 6:9). He shows no favoritism of any kind.
God does not show partiality as far as rich over the poor, the wise over the unwise, etc. But this does not negate the doctrine of unconditional salvation of the doctrine of ELection of grace.


The Scriptures also teach that God wants everyone to be saved.
Prove it. Btw, you cannot, there's not a verse that you can present without taking it out of its context. You are welcome to try.
If John Calvin’s doctrine of Unconditional Election is true, God has chosen only some of mankind for unconditional salvation, not all.
John Calvin did not invent this truth, he just happened to believe in it. For your information, Martin Luther who was a contemporary with John Calvin, just a little before him ~ believed in Election of grace, so did many others before them, the list is long. Besides, who cares who believe it or not, what does the word of God teach.... and there is overwhelming evidence that it is one of the foundational doctrines of the scriptures, which even a novice can see and teach to a certain degree.

Logic dictates that if God has determined some of us to be predestined for salvation, he has also predetermined that the rest of us are destined for an eternity in hell.
First, you are using hell in a very limited sense~but another subject for another day.

So, do you have problem with God electing some to inherit eternal life life, and bypassing others? Read Romans 9;17-22~for God's answer to you.

If both Calvinism and God’s Word are true, why wouldn’t God choose to save all of mankind unconditionally if he wants us all to be saved? Why would he have already decided that some of us will spend eternity in hell if he doesn’t want anyone to go to hell?
So many errors in this one statement. You are reasoning based upon what you have heard other men teach about about God's will in the salvation of men from sin and condemnation.

Give me scriptures that you think may support your understanding, take your best shot~I saw the three you stumbled through above, yet I'll give you a chance to put in order your best argument, and if you need help, call some of your friends to help, pretty sure you will need them.
 
God does not show partiality as far as rich over the poor, the wise over the unwise, etc. But this does not negate the doctrine of unconditional salvation of the doctrine of ELection of grace.




Prove it. Btw, you cannot, there's not a verse that you can present without taking it out of its context. You are welcome to try.

John Calvin did not invent this truth, he just happened to believe in it. For your information, Martin Luther who was a contemporary with John Calvin, just a little before him ~ believed in Election of grace, so did many others before them, the list is long. Besides, who cares who believe it or not, what does the word of God teach.... and there is overwhelming evidence that it is one of the foundational doctrines of the scriptures, which even a novice can see and teach to a certain degree.


First, you are using hell in a very limited sense~but another subject for another day.

So, do you have problem with God electing some to inherit eternal life life, and bypassing others? Read Romans 9;17-22~for God's answer to you.


So many errors in this one statement. You are reasoning based upon what you have heard other men teach about about God's will in the salvation of men from sin and condemnation.

Give me scriptures that you think may support your understanding, take your best shot~I saw the three you stumbled through above, yet I'll give you a chance to put in order your best argument, and if you need help, call some of your friends to help, pretty sure you will need them.
We know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Romans 10:17. We know that God saves those who believe – 1 Corinthians 1:21. We know that we receive the spirit and are sealed with the spirit through belief in the gospel- Ephesians 1:13.

Sin is the transgression of the law- 1 John 3:4. Sin is known thorough/by the law- Romans 7:7. The law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ- Galatians 3:24-25. Where there is no law there is no transgression of the law- Romans 4:14. Sin is not counted against anyone when there is no law. Romans 5:13.

In Colossians 2:13-15 we read the following: When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Ephesians 2:14-15: For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

2 Corinthians 5:18-20: All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

So, we see from the above scriptures it’s not sin per se that keeps the sinner from God it is unbelief. Faith is the issue. In Romans 5:1-2 we read the following: Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God

Its unbelief that keeps one from salvation and places them under condemnation. This is taught throughout the N.T. gospels and epistles. Here we see what Jesus and Paul declared below.

John 3:18: Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:36: Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them

Romans 11:20: Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith.

Hebrews 3:19: So, we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief. Cf Heb 4:6- unbelief

Our loving God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 33:11). Our loving Father took pleasure to bruise His Son to reconcile us to God as an offering for our sins. (Isaiah 53:10).

It is by faith in the Son through the message of the gospel that saves and unbelief which condemns. The gospel is for all mankind, all the world, for everyone. God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4). God is the Savior of all men, especially of believers (1 Timothy. 4:10), For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone (Titus 2:11) For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all (Romans 11:32). The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). God sent His Son into the world to take away the sin of the world (John 1:29) and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2). and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again (2 Corinthians 5:15). But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9)

hope this helps !!!
 
God does not show partiality as far as rich over the poor, the wise over the unwise, etc. But this does not negate the doctrine of unconditional salvation of the doctrine of ELection of grace.
Yes it does and how you define the election of grace is not how it even works.
 
Yes it does and how you define the election of grace is not how it even works.
God does show favortism towards people, but not based upon anything about or in them, but because He wanted to. He chose a people to be His Own Elect, and He rejected the rest, because it pleased Him to do so. This was signified on how He chose national israel over other people Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Was God unjust in Loving and choosing that people above all people that were on the face of the earth ?

He showed them favortism
 
We know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Romans 10:17. We know that God saves those who believe – 1 Corinthians 1:21. We know that we receive the spirit and are sealed with the spirit through belief in the gospel- Ephesians 1:13.
Glad to see some of his friends are willing to jump in and thrown him a life jacket, for pretty he was over his head, without any help of being saved, from sinking.

Civic, this is about as much lightness you may see me use, similar to what Elijah used toward the prophets of Baal. It is not easy to refrain from such men when I've been at this for fifty years, and some of these young Whippersnappers think they have it all down pat, who are driven more by pride that knowledge of the truth.

I'm sick but will go as far as I can before resting again. Pollen has gotten kick my behind this year, more so than in the past.
We know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Romans 10:17.
This is very true, but only half true, the most important truth you are leaving off my friend. The very gift to have faith is freely given by God's grace secured by Jesus Christ's perfect life of faith and obedience!

Philippians 1:29


“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;”
How is it given? In the new birth, God's elect are created after the image of Jesus Christ perfect life of obedience and faith in their inward man by the power of the Holy Ghost.

This new man we are commanded to put on and grown in grace and knowledge of God which comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. So much could be added, but enough to get my point across.
We know that God saves those who believe – 1 Corinthians 1:21.
Great verse, and very close connected with Romans 1:16,17, and other scriptures. But, do you truly hear what Paul is saying with these words? I think not. Civic, I have taken time in some threads on this site to explain how the words save/saved/salvation are used in at least five different senses in the holy scriptures, even in this one verse you quoted, it is used in two different senses.

The word of God does indeed save those that believe~or, Believers (those already born again in a vital sense,) are throughout their life being saved in a practical sense through hearing and believing the truth~we are saved from ignorance to true understanding; Saved form false brethren, from our own deceitful hearts, which is deceitful above all things, etc., etc. See 1st Timothy 4.
Timothy could save himself from a world of trouble by heeding Paul's exhortations, neglect Paul's warning and he would missed out on a very important practical salvation that's available to each and every child of God keeping them from being unfruitful, much like Lot lived.

I'll be back after resting, maybe tomorrow.
 
Glad to see some of his friends are willing to jump in and thrown him a life jacket, for pretty he was over his head, without any help of being saved, from sinking.

Civic, this is about as much lightness you may see me use, similar to what Elijah used toward the prophets of Baal. It is not easy to refrain from such men when I've been at this for fifty years, and some of these young Whippersnappers think they have it all down pat, who are driven more by pride that knowledge of the truth.

I'm sick but will go as far as I can before resting again. Pollen has gotten kick my behind this year, more so than in the past.

This is very true, but only half true, the most important truth you are leaving off my friend. The very gift to have faith is freely given by God's grace secured by Jesus Christ's perfect life of faith and obedience!

How is it given? In the new birth, God's elect are created after the image of Jesus Christ perfect life of obedience and faith in their inward man by the power of the Holy Ghost.

This new man we are commanded to put on and grown in grace and knowledge of God which comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. So much could be added, but enough to get my point across.

Great verse, and very close connected with Romans 1:16,17, and other scriptures. But, do you truly hear what Paul is saying with these words? I think not. Civic, I have taken time in some threads on this site to explain how the words save/saved/salvation are used in at least five different senses in the holy scriptures, even in this one verse you quoted, it is used in two different senses.

The word of God does indeed save those that believe~or, Believers (those already born again in a vital sense,) are throughout their life being saved in a practical sense through hearing and believing the truth~we are saved from ignorance to true understanding; Saved form false brethren, from our own deceitful hearts, which is deceitful above all things, etc., etc. See 1st Timothy 4.

Timothy could save himself from a world of trouble by heeding Paul's exhortations, neglect Paul's warning and he would missed out on a very important practical salvation that's available to each and every child of God keeping them from being unfruitful, much like Lot lived.

I'll be back after resting, maybe tomorrow.
Rest up no rush and I hope you feel better soon. Enjoy Easter ( Resurrection Day) tomorrow
 
@Red Baker

Great verse, and very close connected with Romans 1:16,17, and other scriptures. But, do you truly hear what Paul is saying with these words? I think not. Civic, I have taken time in some threads on this site to explain how the words save/saved/salvation are used in at least five different senses in the holy scriptures, even in this one verse you quoted, it is used in two different senses.

I dont believe Rom 1:16 or 1 Cor 1:21 are talking about Salvation in its Legal realm, that's accomplished by the Death of Christ alone, however the elect have to be saved from much error and false theology and idolatry in their minds, so there is a salvation of conversion to belief of the Truth. For instance 1 Tim 4:16

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

We know Paul isnt speaking about eternal salvation here in this context, but from false doctrine,
Also 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Salvation here I believe is regeneration by the Spirit then belief of the Truth
 
@Red Baker



I dont believe Rom 1:16 or 1 Cor 1:21 are talking about Salvation in its Legal realm, that's accomplished by the Death of Christ alone, however the elect have to be saved from much error and false theology and idolatry in their minds, so there is a salvation of conversion to belief of the Truth. For instance 1 Tim 4:16

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

We know Paul isnt speaking about eternal salvation here in this context, but from false doctrine,
Also 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Salvation here I believe is regeneration by the Spirit then belief of the Truth
Here we go again with the Calvinist idea that one is Regenerated (alive) but not yet a believer (still dead in sins). That's Calvinism's Living Dead state.

Every Calvinist Congregation at night could be deemed the Night of the Living Dead.
 
Here we go again with the Calvinist idea that one is Regenerated (alive) but not yet a believer (still dead in sins). That's Calvinism's Living Dead state.

Every Calvinist Congregation at night could be deemed the Night of the Living Dead.
False misrepresentation
 
Wrong. You explicitly declared the following:

You believe Regeneration (alive) and later then Belief. Which means that there is a time when you are regenerated (alive) but not yet believing (still dead in sin) - a living dead person in other words.
Yes zombies 😂
 
Wrong. You explicitly declared the following:

You believe Regeneration (alive) and later then Belief. Which means that there is a time when you are regenerated (alive) but not yet believing (still dead in sin) - a living dead person in other words.
False misrepresentation
 
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