󠅤 The Lord sent Jesus Christ

[mikesw]

Prove Jesus is in the Godhead then. Book, chapter, verse please. I've never read anything like that in any Bible.

you reject the passages. Your decision has been made so that every verse that points to the divinity of Christ you have twisted.

You have had many months to argue your favorite passages to deny the divinity of Christ. Your failure to convince becomes evidence that there is no reasonable argument, at least not yet. One of the main things you would have to overcome is the ambiguity like where Jesus raises himself and where he is raised by the Father and the Spirit. Did all three of them do this?

 

[Runningman]

you reject the passages. Your decision has been made so that every verse that points to the divinity of Christ you have twisted.

You have had many months to argue your favorite passages to deny the divinity of Christ. Your failure to convince becomes evidence that there is no reasonable argument, at least not yet. One of the main things you would have to overcome is the ambiguity like where Jesus raises himself and where he is raised by the Father and the Spirit. Did all three of them do this?

Actually, I think I pretty much have the upper hand in every debate I have had here about the trinity. For starters, I hold the high ground because I have the verses that directly talk about who I believe God is, yet you have no verses that directly talk about who you believe God is. I consider the trinty doctrine an extreme vulnerable doctrine for this reason.

It has been debated since it was first created. You did know this was created right? It didn't exist in any recognizable state before the 4th century. Why do you feel the need to debate a later addition to church theology?

 

[mikesw]

Actually, I think I pretty much have the upper hand in every debate I have had here about the trinity. For starters, I hold the high ground because I have the verses that directly talk about who I believe God is, yet you have no verses that directly talk about who you believe God is. I consider the trinty doctrine an extreme vulnerable doctrine for this reason.

It has been debated since it was first created. You did know this was created right? It didn't exist in any recognizable state before the 4th century. Why do you feel the need to debate a later addition to church theology?

You ability to share ignorance is rather astounding. I will share what I found in Gal 3:19-20 so you can reject Paul's point too.

link #Gal 3:19-20 Solved by the Shema in light of Christ's Divinity

I maybe note in that thread that this especially makes sense in that no one has settled on any clear meaning of this before.

 

[Runningman]

You ability to share ignorance is rather astounding. I will share what I found in Gal 3:19-20 so you can reject Paul's point too.

link #Gal 3:19-20 Solved by the Shema in light of Christ's Divinity

I maybe note in that thread that this especially makes sense in that no one has settled on any clear meaning of this before.

Wow I read it. It's a stunningly ignorant. Which fallacy of yours did you want to address first?

 

[mikesw]

Wow I read it. It's a stunningly ignorant. Which fallacy of yours did you want to address first?

Yep. even if Paul relies on the divinity of Christ to convey his point to the Galatians. You have become too predictable.

 

[Runningman]

Yep. even if Paul relies on the divinity of Christ to convey his point to the Galatians. You have become too predictable.

You're assuming a Trinitarian framework when it isn't explicitly stated in that post. I know you already believe in the Trinity so you're automatically reading it into anything you see in the Bible, but nevertheless it is not actually in the text.

Also, you pointed out how Paul said God is One. One Person? Great! That sounds like Unitarianism and I will prove it because you did overlook a major point provided in the immediate context of Galatians 3:20 because the mediator of the Law was Moses with the promise given by God. The incongruency of your theory is that if Jesus is in the Godhead then so is Moses.

Moses the mediator of the law:​

Exodus 3 KJV​

18And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. 20And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. 21And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.​

Jesus didn't give the New Covenant, but God did. Jesus is the mediator just like Moses was. Hence why you are still begging the question by imposing your assumptions into Paul's writings.

You wrote a lot more, but no need to address it all right now. See if what I pointed out to you helps at all.

 

[mikesw]

You're assuming a Trinitarian framework when it isn't explicitly stated in that post. I know you already believe in the Trinity so you're automatically reading it into anything you see in the Bible, but nevertheless it is not actually in the text.

Also, you pointed out how Paul said God is One. One Person? Great! That sounds like Unitarianism and I will prove it because you did overlook a major point provided in the immediate context of Galatians 3:20 because the mediator of the Law was Moses with the promise given by God. The incongruency of your theory is that if Jesus is in the Godhead then so is Moses.

Jesus didn't give the New Covenant, but God did. Jesus is the mediator just like Moses was. Hence why you are still begging the question by imposing your assumptions into Paul's writings.

You wrote a lot more, but no need to address it all right now. See if what I pointed out to you helps at all.

You keep speaking in ignorance. It is the divinity of Christ in scripture being understood in the oneness of God that gives us the Trinitarian recognition its beginning.
Your failure too is to think the point is that Paul is teaching the divinity of Christ here. You have it backwards. It is the Galatians who have to recognize that Paul is referring to the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. If Gal 3:19-20 is finally solved by this recognition, then we have explained the verses (for the first time) and confirmed Paul's and the Galatians' recognition of the divinity of Christ at the same time.
But scriptural evidence is not sufficient or you, you demand philosophical preference of a denial of Christ Jesus's divinity. I cannot help you with your philosophical preferences.

 

[MTMattie]

Actually, I think I pretty much have the upper hand in every debate I have had here about the trinity. For starters, I hold the high ground because I have the verses that directly talk about who I believe God is, yet you have no verses that directly talk about who you believe God is. I consider the trinty doctrine an extreme vulnerable doctrine for this reason.

It has been debated since it was first created. You did know this was created right? It didn't exist in any recognizable state before the 4th century. Why do you feel the need to debate a later addition to church theology?

READ IT.

Didache and Trinity: Proto-Trinitarianism in an Early Christian Community​

The Didache, also known as The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations, is a brief anonymous early Christian treatise written in Koine Greek, dated by modern scholars to the first or second century AD. The first line of this treatise is: "The teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles by the twelve apostles". Wikipedia

Dating it to the beginning of the second century or the end of the first, before even some of the books of the New Testament were written.

Didache and Trinity: Proto-Trinitarianism in an Early Christian Community

The Didache is an early Christian Jewish record from the apostolic period and a crucial document in the attempt to understand not only the praxis, but also the theology of nascent Christian Judaism. It's nascent proto-Trinitarianism is

www.academia.edu

Hit the blue Download PDF button.

 

[Runningman]

You keep speaking in ignorance. It is the divinity of Christ in scripture being understood in the oneness of God that gives us the Trinitarian recognition its beginning.
Your failure too is to think the point is that Paul is teaching the divinity of Christ here. You have it backwards. It is the Galatians who have to recognize that Paul is referring to the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. If Gal 3:19-20 is finally solved by this recognition, then we have explained the verses (for the first time) and confirmed Paul's and the Galatians' recognition of the divinity of Christ at the same time.
But scriptural evidence is not sufficient or you, you demand philosophical preference of a denial of Christ Jesus's divinity. I cannot help you with your philosophical preferences.

You are really overcomplicating Paul's message because this isn't about Jesus being in a supposed trinitarian style Godhead anymore than it is about Moses being in the Godhead. The riddle isn't really much of a riddle at all. "The mediator is not of one" thus means that Jesus and Moses are not one with God in the sense of deity. It seems this will just continue going in one ear and out the other, but I am sure it will help someone.

 

[Runningman]

READ IT.

Didache and Trinity: Proto-Trinitarianism in an Early Christian Community​

The Didache, also known as The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations, is a brief anonymous early Christian treatise written in Koine Greek, dated by modern scholars to the first or second century AD. The first line of this treatise is: "The teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles by the twelve apostles". Wikipedia

Dating it to the beginning of the second century or the end of the first, before even some of the books of the New Testament were written.

Didache and Trinity: Proto-Trinitarianism in an Early Christian Community

The Didache is an early Christian Jewish record from the apostolic period and a crucial document in the attempt to understand not only the praxis, but also the theology of nascent Christian Judaism. It's nascent proto-Trinitarianism is

www.academia.edu

Hit the blue Download PDF button.

Um, did you know the Didache never claims Jesus is God? That's a Unitarian document.

 

[mikesw]

You are really overcomplicating Paul's message because this isn't about Jesus being in a supposed trinitarian style Godhead anymore than it is about Moses being in the Godhead. The riddle isn't really much of a riddle at all. "The mediator is not of one" thus means that Jesus and Moses are not one with God in the sense of deity. It seems this will just continue going in one ear and out the other, but I am sure it will help someone.

Not surprising that you are more confident about your interpretation than scholars are about the common existing interpretations.
That reminds me how you claim that Jesus only took on a type of divinity as a reward or some adoptionist-sounding theory.

 

[Runningman]

Not surprising that you are more confident about your interpretation than scholars are about the common existing interpretations.
That reminds me how you claim that Jesus only took on a type of divinity as a reward or some adoptionist-sounding theory.

You showed your thread like you wanted to discuss the Bible so I am doing that. Now you're just talking about me again. Why do you always bring the discussion back to me as a person rather than the content of my comments on the Bible?

 

[mikesw]

You showed your thread like you wanted to discuss the Bible so I am doing that. Now you're just talking about me again. Why do you always bring the discussion back to me as a person rather than the content of my comments on the Bible?

Because you are the one doing the interpreting. I was letting you show that you deny even when Paul uses the divinity of Christ as part of approach with the Galatians. I doubt you will add any keen insight into the discussion, so it is hardly worth hearing how you justify your denial of the divinity of Christ in the Godhead.

 

[Runningman]

Because you are the one doing the interpreting. I was letting you show that you deny even when Paul uses the divinity of Christ as part of approach with the Galatians. I doubt you will add any keen insight into the discussion, so it is hardly worth hearing how you justify your denial of the divinity of Christ in the Godhead.

You're doing the interpreting because there is no mention of Jesus being in the Godhead in the Bible, but plenty mention of the Godhead being in Jesus and many others. However, I don't see the need to talk about you unless it helps you realize you shouldn't be talking about me. So I trust your sideshow is done. Where does the Bible ever say Jesus is in a trinity Godhead?

 

[mikesw]

You're doing the interpreting because there is no mention of Jesus being in the Godhead in the Bible, but plenty mention of the Godhead being in Jesus and many others. However, I don't see the need to talk about you unless it helps you realize you shouldn't be talking about me. So I trust your sideshow is done. Where does the Bible ever say Jesus is in a trinity Godhead?

Aren't you brilliant? I have to add "Godhead" since you otherwise could leave the adoptionist idea that Jesus earned divinity. I do not want people assuming some misconstrued reading of adoptionism or other distortions.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

THE LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY SENT THE SON
Satan and that which is of anti christ sent all inclusive interfaith .
MAY I suggest we all open our bibles and as small children begin again to learn and to be refreshed in THE TRUTH .

 

[MTMattie]

Um, did you know the Didache never claims Jesus is God? That's a Unitarian document.

It never had to when God the Father, of Jesus did it for everyone to see,

Psalm 45:6-7
Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom. / You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you above your companions with the oil of joy.

Heb 1:8
NASB 1995
But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

and
Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, / that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, / and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

and
Romans 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise! Amen


Romans 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise! Amen.

 

[synergy]

Actually, I think I pretty much have the upper hand in every debate I have had here about the trinity.

You are so delusional it's hilarious!

For starters, I hold the high ground because I have the verses that directly talk about who I believe God is, yet you have no verses that directly talk about who you believe God is. I consider the trinty doctrine an extreme vulnerable doctrine for this reason.

Just in the Book of John, you have a whole chapter and multiple verses thar describe Jesus as God. John Chapter 1, John 8:24, John 8:58, John 20:28, etc.... Statements directly from Christ Himself declaring that he is "I Am". Crack open the Book of John and all your Unitarian delusions will immediately evaporate.

It has been debated since it was first created. You did know this was created right? It didn't exist in any recognizable state before the 4th century. Why do you feel the need to debate a later addition to church theology?

Jesus being God was known to the Apostles right off the bat (see John 1:1). To deny that is to live in a delusional unitarian fairy tale world.

 

[mikesw]

You are so delusional it's hilarious!

Just in the Book of John, you have a whole chapter and multiple verses thar describe Jesus as God. John Chapter 1, John 8:24, John 8:58, John 20:28, etc.... Statements directly from Christ Himself declaring that he is "I Am". Crack open the Book of John and all your Unitarian delusions will immediately evaporate.

Jesus being God was known to the Apostles right off the bat (see John 1:1). To deny that is to live in a delusional unitarian fairy tale world.

If a unitarian argument is unconvincing, I'm not sure how that is a win for the unitarian view. i was seeing if there was any insights or issues that might be worthwhile, but none were. I have noted there could be some way that the Trinitarian doctrine might not be complete enough but there seems no room in the discussion for that possibility

 

[synergy]

If a unitarian argument is unconvincing, I'm not sure how that is a win for the unitarian view. i was seeing if there was any insights or issues that might be worthwhile, but none were. I have noted there could be some way that the Trinitarian doctrine might not be complete enough but there seems no room in the discussion for that possibility

I commend your patience, my friend. You have given @Runningman every opportunity to prove his case and he has failed miserably each and every time. You have the patience of Job, I unfortunately don't. Stay strong in the faith, my friend.