DavidTree
Active Member
God is consistent with His Word in revealing Truth by His Spirit.
It is us who fail to apply His Ways to our hearts.
Forget the word 'trinity' and just open your heart to JESUS like a little child = Matthew 18:1-5
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
- Start date
It is us who fail to apply His Ways to our hearts.
Forget the word 'trinity' and just open your heart to JESUS like a little child = Matthew 18:1-5
Runningman
Active Member
That doesn't apply to me. Listen, all you need to do is have the same God as Jesus and do what Jesus did. Jesus is your example of what to do. Just copy him, obey his teachings, do what he did, and you'll be fine. Please note, Jesus only ever described God as the Father, taught to worship the Father, and taught to pray to the Father. Yeah he said a lot of other things, but fundamentally it all boils down to serving the Father, doing what He says, and obeying whatever the Father said to do. He gave us Jesus to guide us to Himself.
DavidTree
Active Member
There are THREE HE's in Elohim
SEE here - John 14:16
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him,
for He abides with you and will be in you
Runningman
Active Member
God is never described as 3 in the Bible.
haha. Maybe on the same page but at different comprehension levels. You are looking at the words. Christians are comprehending what the words signify. The scripture provides the basics of the Triune God but does not identify the distinctions that separate Christians from the heretical views. Modalists are rejected by the testimony of scripture. Arianists are rejected by the testimony of Scripture. Only the Triune comprehension makes sense when considering what the pages of the Bible signify.
I realized how silly the WWJD movement was {What would Jesus do?}. I have never walked on water. I have never given sight to the blind. I never prophesied the fall of the temple. I have not fallen short of these because I never tried doing these. However, there is obedience to loving one another, and I try to show that even with all my failings.
Peterlag
Active Member
I cannot seem to get over the fact that so many fight me tooth and nail over something so important and yet they are all dead wrong and yet think they are so right.
What? You are promoting that men can have babies but those who speak against that are dead wrong?
Peterlag
Active Member
I already do that every day. I ask for a teaching. A teaching... a whole paragraph or chapter. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. Trinitarians piece together statements that are scattered all over the Bible. They basically use bits and pieces of words and half verses along with their own human reasoning, imagination, speculation and assumptions as they pick one verse here, and another verse there, a hint here, and a clue there, and then they construct their "own God" which is the product of their own human thinking. This is why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
And then they say...
You're a heretic, or you need to have holy spirit to see it, or Jesus always writes in parables so we can't understand it, or they simply say... John 1:1, or Philippians 2:6, or you need to read 1 Timothy 3:16, or Hebrews 1:8.
And then I following with...
If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered allover the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...
Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.
The Epistles would have writings like...
Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.
And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.
And then they write...
You're a heretic, or you need to have holy spirit to see it, or Jesus always writes in parables so we can't understand it, or they simply say... John 1:1, or Philippians 2:6, or you need to read 1 Timothy 3:16, or Hebrews 1:8.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Who is the us?
FreeInChrist
Active Member
A. 5 key pieces of evidence of the trinity because of plural references to God:
- Two plural nouns are applied to God: God and Lord, are almost always plural when applied to God. These two plural nouns (God - elohim, Lord - adonai) are the two most frequently used nouns of God in the Old Testament.
- Three plural pronouns, (Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. Click here for detailed outline of these passages
- Five plural verbs are applied to God: creates, makes, wanders, reveals, judges. In English, these plural verse do not indicate a plural persons, "God creates". But the plurality of Hebrew verbs follow the noun. This is not the case in English. This plurality of verbs associated with God, is most striking and unusual to those who read Hebrew.
- Plural adjectives that describe God: "holy". Again, this is a function of Hebrew grammar that does not exist in English. The plurality of adjectives is tagged to the associated noun, which in this case is God. It is most unusual to have a plural adjective describing God.
- Single verses that contain both singular and plural references to the same person.
- Anti-Trinitarians and Unitarians alike, try to explain away the plural references to God in the Old Testament: "Let US make man in OUR image". (Gen 1:26)
- While Trinitarians expect to find such plural pronouns and verbs used in reference to God at face value, anti-Trinitarians fall all over themselves trying to find a way to avoid the obvious truth that there are three persons in the one God.
- As we will see, all of the Anti-Trinitarian arguments are invalid leaving us with no other conclusion then the fact that God is a plurality of persons, just as the Biblical trinity teaches.
- The trinity was hidden in the Old Testament until Christ came and the earliest Christians began to "search the (Old Testament) scriptures daily" (Acts 17:11) to see if Paul's claim that Jesus of Nazareth, was the direct subject of prophecy. We have no doubt that Paul would point out the six passages where God is refereed to with plural pronouns. (Us, Our)
- God's oneness is conveyed by personal pronouns like He, Him, His, I, Myself, Me. The trinity is witnessed in the Old Testament by personal pronouns like Us, Ours.
- 74 AD Epistle of Barnabas: "For the Scripture says concerning us, while He speaks to the Son, "Let Us make man after Our image, and after Our likeness" (Epistle of Barnabas, Chapter VI.—The Sufferings of Christ, and the New Covenant, Were Announced by the Prophets.)
- 150 AD Justin Martyr: Speaking of Jewish theologians Justin calls the Jewish teaching that God spoke to angels a hersey: "In saying, therefore, 'as one of us, '[Moses] has declared that [there is a certain] number of persons associated with one another, and that they are at least two. For I would not say that the dogma of that heresy which is said to be among you (The Jews had their own heresies which supplied many things to the Christian heresies) is true, or that the teachers of it can prove that [God] spoke to angels, or that the human frame was the workmanship of angels. But this Offspring, which was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures." (Dialogue of Justin Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew: Chapter LXII.—The Words "Let Us Make Man")
- 180 AD Irenaeus "It was not angels, therefore, who made us, nor who formed us, neither had angels power to make an image of God, nor any one else, except the Word of the Lord, nor any Power remotely distant from the Father of all things. For God did not stand in need of these [beings], in order to the accomplishing of what He had Himself determined with Himself beforehand should be done, as if He did not possess His own hands. For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying, "Let Us make man after Our image and likeness; " [Gen. 1:26]" (Against Heresies 4:20:1).
- 200 AD Tertullian: "If the number of the Trinity also offends you, as if it were not connected in the simple Unity, I ask you how it is possible for a Being who is merely and absolutely One and Singular, to speak in plural phrase, saying, "Let us make man in our own image, and after our own likeness; " whereas He ought to have said, "Let me make man in my own image, and after my own likeness," as being a unique and singular Being? In the following passage, however, "Behold the man is become as one of us," He is either deceiving or amusing us in speaking plurally, if He is One only and singular. Or was it to the angels that He spoke, as the Jews interpret the passage, because these also acknowledge not the Son? Or was it because He was at once the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, that He spoke to Himself in plural terms, making Himself plural on that very account? Nay, it was because He had already His Son close at His side, as a second Person, His own Word, and a third Person also, the Spirit in the Word, that He purposely adopted the plural phrase, "Let us make; "and, "in our image; "and, "become as one of us." (Tertullian, Against Praxeas, Chapter XII. Other Quotations from Holy Scripture Adduced in Proof of the Plurality of Persons in the Godhead.)
- 200 AD Tertullian: Tertullian rejects the idea that God was speaking to Angels because our head is the creator, not a creature: "Since then he is the image of the Creator (for He, when looking on Christ His Word, who was to become man, said, "Let us make man in our own image, after our likeness"), how can I possibly have another head but Him whose image I am? For if I am the image of the Creator there is no room in me for another head" (Tertullian, Book V, Elucidations, Chapter VIII.—Man the Image of the Creator, and Christ the Head of the Man.)
- 200 AD Tertullian: "In the first place, because all things were made by the Word of God, and without Him was nothing made. Now the flesh, too, had its existence from the Word of God, because of the principle, that here should be nothing without that Word. "Let us make man," said He, before He created him, and added, "with our hand," for the sake of his pre-eminence, that so he might not be compared with the rest of creation." (Tertullian: On the Resurrection of the Flesh, Elucidations, Chapter V.—Some Considerations in Reply Eulogistic of the Flesh. It Was Created by God.)
- Origen: "it was to Him that God said regarding the creation of man, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness." (Origen Against Celsus, Book V, Chapter XXXVII)
- Novatian: "For who does not acknowledge that the person of the Son is second after the Father, when he reads that it was said by the Father, consequently to the Son, "Let us make man in our image and our likeness; " and that after this it was related, "And God made man, in the image of God made He him? "Or when he holds in his hands: "The Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah fire and brimstone from the Lord from heaven? " (A Treatise of Novatian Concerning the Trinity, Chapter XXVI. Argument.—Moreover, Against the Sabellians He Proves that the Father is One, the Son Another.)
- Constitutions of the Holy Apostles: "the divine Scripture testifies that God said to Christ, His only-begotten, "Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness. And God made man: after the image of God made He him; male and female made He them."(Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Book V., VII)
A. Anti-Trinitarians claim that when God said, "Let US make man in OUR image". (Gen 1:26) he was speaking to angels.
- Angels are not created in the image of God, only man.
- If angels are included in "Let US make", then angels AND God are equally our creator.
- Jehovah's Witnesses actually get this one right: The US includes (at least) the Father and Jesus in this creation. Jesus, being God, is the creator of all things: "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. " John 1:3
- Hebrews 1:5 proves Jehovah's Witnesses false teachers when they say Jesus is an angel: "For to which of the angels did He ever say, "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You"? And again, "I will be a Father to Him And He shall be a Son to Me"? " (Hebrews 1:5) Of course the answer is rhetorical: God never said to any angels "Today I have begotten You". But he did say this to Jesus. Therefore Jesus cannot be an angel, but we begotten at his resurrection as Acts 13:33 says, thereby fulfilling Ps 2:7.
- The self contradictory doctrine of the Watchtower has Jesus the creature, functioning as our co-creator (Jn 1:3; Col 1:16). But this violates Rom 1:25: "worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator". This passage teaches that if Jesus is the creator, as the Bible says he is, then he cannot be a creature. Jesus cannot be creator and creature at the same time!
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The very best example is in Gen 18 where Yahweh and two angels visit Abraham. Here is a case where God is consulting with two angels and DOES NOT USE US. Three went down to do joint work, but God uses the singular "I" over and over again when actually talking to the two angels! If ever there should be a precedent for US/OUR including God and angels, this would be it. But Anti-Trinitarians are most disappointed that the singular "I" is used. The power of this example proves the other US/OUR do not include angels: "Then the [three] men rose up from there, and looked down toward Sodom; and Abraham was walking with them to send them off. Yahweh said, "Shall I [not we] hide from Abraham what I am about to do, " Genesis 18:16-17 click for more on Gen 18 & 19
- "Micaiah said, "Therefore, hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left. "The Lord said, 'Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that. "Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord and said, 'I will entice him.' "The Lord said to him, 'How?' And he said, 'I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.' " (1 Kings 22:19-22)
- "Bless the Lord, you His angels, Mighty in strength, who perform His word, Obeying the voice of His word! Bless the Lord, all you His hosts, You who serve Him, doing His will." Psalm 103:20-21
- ""A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened. " Daniel 7:10
| Singular | Plural | |
| God: El, Elohim | "El" Gen. 33:20, Num 23:19 | Elohim: (used 4000 times) |
| Lord: Adonai | Examples? (Almost always plural) | Adonai: Gen 18:30; Ex 34:23; Deut 10:17; Joshua 3:11,13; Ps 45:11; 114:7; 135:5; Mal 1:6 |
- The two most frequently used words (God and Lord) that refer to God in the Old Testament are almost always plural!
- Singular nouns are quite rarely used: El:
a. God (el - singular) is not a man, that He should lie (Numbers 23:19)
b. Then he erected there an altar and called it El-Elohe-Israel [God, the God of Israel]. (Gen. 33:20) - We don't know of any examples of "Lord" applied to God in the singular.
- "And if I am a master [plural adonai], where is My respect? says the Lord of hosts" Mal 1:6
| Singular pronouns | Plural pronouns | |
| I | "I" Isa 6:8 | - |
| Myself, Us | "Myself" Gen 9:9 | "Us" Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8 |
| Me, Our | "Me" Zech 12:10 | "Our" Gen 1:26 |
- "Then God [plural elohim] said, "Let Us [plural pronoun] make man in Our [plural pronoun] image, according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness" Genesis 1:26
- "Then Yahweh God [plural elohim] said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us [plural pronoun], knowing good and evil" Genesis 3:22
- "Come, let Us [plural pronoun] go down and there confuse [plural form of balal] their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech." Genesis 11:7
- "Then I heard the voice of the Lord [plural elohim], saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us [plural pronoun]?"" Isaiah 6:8
| Singular | Plural | |
| Creator: Bara | Isaiah 40:28 | Ecclesiastes 12:1 |
| Maker: Asah | Genesis 1:7 | Gen 1:26; Ps 149:2; Job 35:10; Isa 54:5 |
| Husband: Baal | ? | Isa 54:5 |
| wander | ? | Genesis 20:13 |
| revealed | ? | Genesis 35:7 |
| judges | ? | Psalm 58:11 |
- Creator: Bara
a. God is called Creator (singular of bara) Isaiah 40:28
b. "Remember also your Creator [plural form of bara] in the days of your youth" Eccl 12:1 - Maker: Asah
a. "Let Us [plural pronoun] make [plural of asah] man in Our [plural pronoun] image [singular], according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness [singular]" Genesis 1:26
b. "Let Israel be glad in his Maker [plural form of asah]" Psalm 149:2
c. "Where is God [plural, elohim] my Maker [plural form of asah]" Job 35:10
d. "For your husband [plural, baal] is your Maker [plural form of asah]" Isaiah 54:5 - "God [plural, elohim] caused me to wander [hitau, plural form of taau] from my father's house" Genesis 20:13
- "He built an altar there, and called the place El-bethel, because there God [plural, elohim] had revealed [plural form of gla] Himself to him when he fled from his brother." Genesis 35:7
- "Surely there is a God [plural, elohim] who judges [plural form of shaphat] on earth!" Psalm 58:11
- "You will not be able to serve Yahweh, for He is a holy [plural form of qadosh] God [plural, elohim]." Joshua 24:19
- "And the knowledge of the Holy [plural form of qadosh] One is understanding." Proverbs 9:10
- "Nor do I have the knowledge of the Holy [plural form of qadosh] One. " Proverbs 30:3
| text | who | Singular refers to class of being | Plural refers to individuals within that class |
| Isaiah 6:8 | God | Whom shall I send (Divine spokesman representing all) | for Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) |
| Gen 1:27 | Man | "created him" (mankind) | "created them" (male and female) |
| Mark 5:9 | Demon | "My name is Legion" (demonic spokesman representing all) | "we are many" (A full Roman legion had 6,826 men. They were cast into 2000 swine. Perhaps multiple demons can inhabit both man and pig.) |
Conclusion:
A. The evidence that "Let US make man in OUR image". (Gen 1:26) refers to the Trinity is irrefutable.
- The unanimous interpretation of all the apostolic fathers from 100 - 300 AD was that the US of Gen 1:26 referred to the trinity. They all viewed the Father talking to the Son and the Holy Spirit. They specifically rejected the notion of God talking to the angels. Of course they never discuss the concept of plural of majesty, for it did not exist at this time.
- The Unitarians and Christadelphians are wrong because they say Us refers to God and the Angels. But man is not created in the image of angels, but of God. Jesus is not included in their view of US.
- The Jehovah's Witnesses do include Jesus and the Father in the US of Gen 1:26, but make Jesus the created arch-angel Michael. But Heb 1:5 proves Jesus cannot be, nor ever has been an angel. Further, in their self contradictory doctrine, they have Jesus the creature, as our co-creator (Jn 1:3). But this violates Rom 1:25: "worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator". This passage teaches that if Jesus is the creator, as the Bible says he is, then he cannot be a creature. Jesus cannot be creator and creature at the same time!
C. The plural nouns and pro-nouns applied to God, like US, OUR, Elohim, Adonai are powerful evidence of the Trinity hidden in the Old Testament, to be discovered after the coming of Christ. The almost exclusive use of the plural elohim for God and adonai for Lord, make a strong case that any honest seeker could see. This extensive pattern is irrefutable.
By Steve Rudd
contact the author
https://bible.ca/trinity/trinity-oneness-unity-plural-nouns-pronouns-verbs-adverbs.htmcontact the author
Peterlag
Active Member
The pronouns in the Bible that refer to “God” are singular and there are lots of them. “The Hebrew Bible and the New Testament contain well over twenty thousand pronouns and verbs describing the One God” (Anthony Buzzard and Charles Hunting, The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity’s Self-inflicted Wound, International Scholars Publications, New York, 1998, p. 17). Singular pronouns include “I” “my” and “he.” We would expect it to say “For God so loved the world that they gave the Father’s only begotten Son….” if “ God” were composed of three co-equal beings who each had their own mind and together agreed to send Christ. The fact that the pronouns in the Bible refer to “God” as a singular being is also evidence that there is no Trinity.
It is fascinating to watch the promoters of this world's religious system justify, defend and promote their specific religious tradition of their God being a "Triune God", which was a popular religious philosophy among the Pagans religions Israel journeyed through. I imagine it was the same in Paul's time as the mainstream religion justified, defended and promoted the tradition of being circumcised before repentance and turning to God, a law given nowhere in Scriptures..
And the hypocrisy of the "Trinity" tradition is off the charts. These men, "who come in Christ's Name", preach that Jesus came to Earth as God, specifically, "The God of Abraham". And yet when this same Christ instructs His People concerning "The Feasts of the Lord", that HE Himself said, "These are MY Feasts", this world's religious system that promote the "Trinity", reject, despise them as worthless Jewish traditions, unworthy of their respect or their honor. And they create their own high days to worship their triune god.
This same "CHRIST", said of His Father, "These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. (Jn. 17:1-3)
Would this not also include Abel, Noah, Abraham? Or did the Father of the Lord's Christ not give Him anyone to save until after HE was murdered?
This same Christ "of the Bible" instructed the Faithful, "Be Ye Holy as I am Holy". Was this Christ not a Spirit? And how can I know how to be Holy, "Even as HE is Holy"? Does HE not instruct me "in the way that I should go". So then, if I believe HE is sent by His Father, the One True God, to be "MY" Lord and Savior, to create "ALL Things", to teach me in the way that I should go, should I not then submit to "HIS SAYINGS"?
And yet, the promoters of this world's religions who create an image of Him as a "triune god", completely reject and despise HIS Judgments where HE lays out specifically that which all children need to know, Jew and Gentile, that is "What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed".
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek
for your heavenly Father "knoweth that ye have need of all these things". 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and "his" righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.And where are these things found, if not in the Holy Scriptures Paul said to trust, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
Lev. 11: 45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, "for I am holy". 46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.
And yet EVERY promoter of the Christ being a "triune god", have rejected the Judgments of this Lord, and have created their own Judgments to walk in, and teach their children to walk in. And if you question them, they will demean, call names, place you in a box called "Legalist" or Judaizer, or even "Anti-Christ" for asking the question, "If you really believe Jesus is the God of Abraham, why don't you "DO" His Sayings, instead of just hearing them?"
I don't believe the God in Genesis 1 was alone before creation of all that we know. The Bible certainly doesn't teach so. The Jesus "of the Bible" said,
Matt. 10: 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
Phil. 2: 6 Who, being in the form of God, (Spirit) thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Clearly the Jesus "of the Bible" was a servant of His Father who sent Him. And according to His Words recorded in the Holy Scriptures, HE was Sent even before Abraham.
There were undoubtedly immortal spirit beings which existed with God before Adam and Eve were created. If God created mortal life on earth through the Christ, which I believe HE did, and gave HIM power over all flesh to as many as His Father gave Him, which I also believe, it seems perfectly understandable that God would say, "Let "us" create man after "our" own image".
But there is nothing here to promote the ancient, and very popular pagan religious philosophy that "God" is a "triune God".
Ps. 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, (One True God) is for ever and ever: the "sceptre" of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou (The Sceptre of God's Kingdom) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, thy (The Sceptre's) God, "hath anointed thee" (The Sceptre) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
The whole "Trinity" god philosophy has been around a long time.
But for me and my family, we will serve the Lord of the Bible. And He Specifically addressed this very "Triune god" tradition, in HIS Instruction in Righteousness.
Ex. 20: 1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee "any graven image", or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
So although it is popular, and I am surrounded by "Many", who come in Christ's Name to promote it, I'm sticking with the One True God, and the Jesus "HE" Sent.
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civic
Active Member
Interesting about those PERSONAL PRONOUNS Jesus uses.
Lets just toss basic grammar right out the window, and basic definitions of words and place our personal beliefs above Scripture and Jesus teachings.
Interesting about those PERSONAL PRONOUNS Jesus uses.
Lets just toss basic grammar right out the window, and basic definitions of words and place our personal beliefs above Scripture and Jesus teachings.
Civic,
In your understanding, would this be the same Holy Spirit that was given to Zacharias in Luke 1: 67 "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people"?
Yes or no.
Runningman
Active Member
This fallacy is what is called an appeal to hidden "truths" and an argument from ignorance. The Bible already plainly identifies God as the Father. Paul even explicitly said that for us (Christians) there is but one God the Father. You're saying people need to know what the words in the Bible "signify." It is clear the trinity can only survive if those such as yourself attempt to usurp authority from the Bible and claim a special authority without evidence.
Runningman
Active Member
God is never referred to as three in the Bible or described as three persons in one God. God is overwhelmingly referred to with singular pronouns by people and Himself. God is a singular individual, contrary to your arguments.A. 5 key pieces of evidence of the trinity because of plural references to God:
B. Why this is proof of Trinity in the Old Testament:
- Two plural nouns are applied to God: God and Lord, are almost always plural when applied to God. These two plural nouns (God - elohim, Lord - adonai) are the two most frequently used nouns of God in the Old Testament.
- Three plural pronouns, (Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. Click here for detailed outline of these passages
- Five plural verbs are applied to God: creates, makes, wanders, reveals, judges. In English, these plural verse do not indicate a plural persons, "God creates". But the plurality of Hebrew verbs follow the noun. This is not the case in English. This plurality of verbs associated with God, is most striking and unusual to those who read Hebrew.
- Plural adjectives that describe God: "holy". Again, this is a function of Hebrew grammar that does not exist in English. The plurality of adjectives is tagged to the associated noun, which in this case is God. It is most unusual to have a plural adjective describing God.
- Single verses that contain both singular and plural references to the same person.
C. The apostolic Fathers unanimously taught that the "Us" in Gen 1:26, refers to the trinity:
- Anti-Trinitarians and Unitarians alike, try to explain away the plural references to God in the Old Testament: "Let US make man in OUR image". (Gen 1:26)
- While Trinitarians expect to find such plural pronouns and verbs used in reference to God at face value, anti-Trinitarians fall all over themselves trying to find a way to avoid the obvious truth that there are three persons in the one God.
- As we will see, all of the Anti-Trinitarian arguments are invalid leaving us with no other conclusion then the fact that God is a plurality of persons, just as the Biblical trinity teaches.
- The trinity was hidden in the Old Testament until Christ came and the earliest Christians began to "search the (Old Testament) scriptures daily" (Acts 17:11) to see if Paul's claim that Jesus of Nazareth, was the direct subject of prophecy. We have no doubt that Paul would point out the six passages where God is refereed to with plural pronouns. (Us, Our)
- God's oneness is conveyed by personal pronouns like He, Him, His, I, Myself, Me. The trinity is witnessed in the Old Testament by personal pronouns like Us, Ours.
I. Angels are not included in "Us" and "Our":
- 74 AD Epistle of Barnabas: "For the Scripture says concerning us, while He speaks to the Son, "Let Us make man after Our image, and after Our likeness" (Epistle of Barnabas, Chapter VI.—The Sufferings of Christ, and the New Covenant, Were Announced by the Prophets.)
- 150 AD Justin Martyr: Speaking of Jewish theologians Justin calls the Jewish teaching that God spoke to angels a hersey: "In saying, therefore, 'as one of us, '[Moses] has declared that [there is a certain] number of persons associated with one another, and that they are at least two. For I would not say that the dogma of that heresy which is said to be among you (The Jews had their own heresies which supplied many things to the Christian heresies) is true, or that the teachers of it can prove that [God] spoke to angels, or that the human frame was the workmanship of angels. But this Offspring, which was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures." (Dialogue of Justin Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew: Chapter LXII.—The Words "Let Us Make Man")
- 180 AD Irenaeus "It was not angels, therefore, who made us, nor who formed us, neither had angels power to make an image of God, nor any one else, except the Word of the Lord, nor any Power remotely distant from the Father of all things. For God did not stand in need of these [beings], in order to the accomplishing of what He had Himself determined with Himself beforehand should be done, as if He did not possess His own hands. For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying, "Let Us make man after Our image and likeness; " [Gen. 1:26]" (Against Heresies 4:20:1).
- 200 AD Tertullian: "If the number of the Trinity also offends you, as if it were not connected in the simple Unity, I ask you how it is possible for a Being who is merely and absolutely One and Singular, to speak in plural phrase, saying, "Let us make man in our own image, and after our own likeness; " whereas He ought to have said, "Let me make man in my own image, and after my own likeness," as being a unique and singular Being? In the following passage, however, "Behold the man is become as one of us," He is either deceiving or amusing us in speaking plurally, if He is One only and singular. Or was it to the angels that He spoke, as the Jews interpret the passage, because these also acknowledge not the Son? Or was it because He was at once the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, that He spoke to Himself in plural terms, making Himself plural on that very account? Nay, it was because He had already His Son close at His side, as a second Person, His own Word, and a third Person also, the Spirit in the Word, that He purposely adopted the plural phrase, "Let us make; "and, "in our image; "and, "become as one of us." (Tertullian, Against Praxeas, Chapter XII. Other Quotations from Holy Scripture Adduced in Proof of the Plurality of Persons in the Godhead.)
- 200 AD Tertullian: Tertullian rejects the idea that God was speaking to Angels because our head is the creator, not a creature: "Since then he is the image of the Creator (for He, when looking on Christ His Word, who was to become man, said, "Let us make man in our own image, after our likeness"), how can I possibly have another head but Him whose image I am? For if I am the image of the Creator there is no room in me for another head" (Tertullian, Book V, Elucidations, Chapter VIII.—Man the Image of the Creator, and Christ the Head of the Man.)
- 200 AD Tertullian: "In the first place, because all things were made by the Word of God, and without Him was nothing made. Now the flesh, too, had its existence from the Word of God, because of the principle, that here should be nothing without that Word. "Let us make man," said He, before He created him, and added, "with our hand," for the sake of his pre-eminence, that so he might not be compared with the rest of creation." (Tertullian: On the Resurrection of the Flesh, Elucidations, Chapter V.—Some Considerations in Reply Eulogistic of the Flesh. It Was Created by God.)
- Origen: "it was to Him that God said regarding the creation of man, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness." (Origen Against Celsus, Book V, Chapter XXXVII)
- Novatian: "For who does not acknowledge that the person of the Son is second after the Father, when he reads that it was said by the Father, consequently to the Son, "Let us make man in our image and our likeness; " and that after this it was related, "And God made man, in the image of God made He him? "Or when he holds in his hands: "The Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah fire and brimstone from the Lord from heaven? " (A Treatise of Novatian Concerning the Trinity, Chapter XXVI. Argument.—Moreover, Against the Sabellians He Proves that the Father is One, the Son Another.)
- Constitutions of the Holy Apostles: "the divine Scripture testifies that God said to Christ, His only-begotten, "Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness. And God made man: after the image of God made He him; male and female made He them."(Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Book V., VII)
A. Anti-Trinitarians claim that when God said, "Let US make man in OUR image". (Gen 1:26) he was speaking to angels.
B. Biblical examples of conversations between God and Angels never use the words We/US.
- Angels are not created in the image of God, only man.
- If angels are included in "Let US make", then angels AND God are equally our creator.
- Jehovah's Witnesses actually get this one right: The US includes (at least) the Father and Jesus in this creation. Jesus, being God, is the creator of all things: "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. " John 1:3
- Hebrews 1:5 proves Jehovah's Witnesses false teachers when they say Jesus is an angel: "For to which of the angels did He ever say, "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You"? And again, "I will be a Father to Him And He shall be a Son to Me"? " (Hebrews 1:5) Of course the answer is rhetorical: God never said to any angels "Today I have begotten You". But he did say this to Jesus. Therefore Jesus cannot be an angel, but we begotten at his resurrection as Acts 13:33 says, thereby fulfilling Ps 2:7.
- The self contradictory doctrine of the Watchtower has Jesus the creature, functioning as our co-creator (Jn 1:3; Col 1:16). But this violates Rom 1:25: "worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator". This passage teaches that if Jesus is the creator, as the Bible says he is, then he cannot be a creature. Jesus cannot be creator and creature at the same time!
II. Plural and singular nouns applied to God: "God, Lord"
- "Micaiah said, "Therefore, hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left. "The Lord said, 'Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that. "Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord and said, 'I will entice him.' "The Lord said to him, 'How?' And he said, 'I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.' " (1 Kings 22:19-22)
- "Bless the Lord, you His angels, Mighty in strength, who perform His word, Obeying the voice of His word! Bless the Lord, all you His hosts, You who serve Him, doing His will." Psalm 103:20-21
- ""A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened. " Daniel 7:10
Singular Plural God: El, Elohim "El" Gen. 33:20, Num 23:19 Elohim: (used 4000 times) Lord: Adonai Examples?
(Almost always plural)Adonai: Gen 18:30; Ex 34:23; Deut 10:17; Joshua 3:11,13; Ps 45:11; 114:7; 135:5; Mal 1:6
III. Both singular and plural pronouns used of God:
- The two most frequently used words (God and Lord) that refer to God in the Old Testament are almost always plural!
- Singular nouns are quite rarely used: El:
a. God (el - singular) is not a man, that He should lie (Numbers 23:19)
b. Then he erected there an altar and called it El-Elohe-Israel [God, the God of Israel]. (Gen. 33:20)- We don't know of any examples of "Lord" applied to God in the singular.
- "And if I am a master [plural adonai], where is My respect? says the Lord of hosts" Mal 1:6
There are four passages where God speaks for Himself and uses plural pronouns: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. (Us, Our)
Singular pronouns Plural pronouns I "I" Isa 6:8 - Myself, Us "Myself" Gen 9:9 "Us" Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8 Me, Our "Me" Zech 12:10 "Our" Gen 1:26
IV. Plural and singular verbs applied to God: "create, make, wander, revealed, judges"
- "Then God [plural elohim] said, "Let Us [plural pronoun] make man in Our [plural pronoun] image, according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness" Genesis 1:26
- "Then Yahweh God [plural elohim] said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us [plural pronoun], knowing good and evil" Genesis 3:22
- "Come, let Us [plural pronoun] go down and there confuse [plural form of balal] their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech." Genesis 11:7
- "Then I heard the voice of the Lord [plural elohim], saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us [plural pronoun]?"" Isaiah 6:8
Singular Plural Creator: Bara Isaiah 40:28 Ecclesiastes 12:1 Maker: Asah Genesis 1:7 Gen 1:26; Ps 149:2; Job 35:10; Isa 54:5 Husband: Baal ? Isa 54:5 wander ? Genesis 20:13 revealed ? Genesis 35:7 judges ? Psalm 58:11
V. Plural adjectives that describe God: "holy"
- Creator: Bara
a. God is called Creator (singular of bara) Isaiah 40:28
b. "Remember also your Creator [plural form of bara] in the days of your youth" Eccl 12:1- Maker: Asah
a. "Let Us [plural pronoun] make [plural of asah] man in Our [plural pronoun] image [singular], according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness [singular]" Genesis 1:26
b. "Let Israel be glad in his Maker [plural form of asah]" Psalm 149:2
c. "Where is God [plural, elohim] my Maker [plural form of asah]" Job 35:10
d. "For your husband [plural, baal] is your Maker [plural form of asah]" Isaiah 54:5- "God [plural, elohim] caused me to wander [hitau, plural form of taau] from my father's house" Genesis 20:13
- "He built an altar there, and called the place El-bethel, because there God [plural, elohim] had revealed [plural form of gla] Himself to him when he fled from his brother." Genesis 35:7
- "Surely there is a God [plural, elohim] who judges [plural form of shaphat] on earth!" Psalm 58:11
VI. Single verses that contain both singular and plural references to the same being.
- "You will not be able to serve Yahweh, for He is a holy [plural form of qadosh] God [plural, elohim]." Joshua 24:19
- "And the knowledge of the Holy [plural form of qadosh] One is understanding." Proverbs 9:10
- "Nor do I have the knowledge of the Holy [plural form of qadosh] One. " Proverbs 30:3
text who Singular refers to class of being Plural refers to individuals within that class Isaiah 6:8 God Whom shall I send (Divine spokesman representing all) for Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) Gen 1:27 Man "created him" (mankind) "created them" (male and female) Mark 5:9 Demon "My name is Legion" (demonic spokesman representing all) "we are many" (A full Roman legion had 6,826 men. They were cast into 2000 swine. Perhaps multiple demons can inhabit both man and pig.)
Conclusion:
A. The evidence that "Let US make man in OUR image". (Gen 1:26) refers to the Trinity is irrefutable.
B. Such occasional usage's of plural, nouns, verbs and adjectives of God, man and material objects, are best explained as typical and normal for the Hebrew language. Its just they way they expressed things at times.
- The unanimous interpretation of all the apostolic fathers from 100 - 300 AD was that the US of Gen 1:26 referred to the trinity. They all viewed the Father talking to the Son and the Holy Spirit. They specifically rejected the notion of God talking to the angels. Of course they never discuss the concept of plural of majesty, for it did not exist at this time.
- The Unitarians and Christadelphians are wrong because they say Us refers to God and the Angels. But man is not created in the image of angels, but of God. Jesus is not included in their view of US.
- The Jehovah's Witnesses do include Jesus and the Father in the US of Gen 1:26, but make Jesus the created arch-angel Michael. But Heb 1:5 proves Jesus cannot be, nor ever has been an angel. Further, in their self contradictory doctrine, they have Jesus the creature, as our co-creator (Jn 1:3). But this violates Rom 1:25: "worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator". This passage teaches that if Jesus is the creator, as the Bible says he is, then he cannot be a creature. Jesus cannot be creator and creature at the same time!
C. The plural nouns and pro-nouns applied to God, like US, OUR, Elohim, Adonai are powerful evidence of the Trinity hidden in the Old Testament, to be discovered after the coming of Christ. The almost exclusive use of the plural elohim for God and adonai for Lord, make a strong case that any honest seeker could see. This extensive pattern is irrefutable.
By Steve Ruddhttps://bible.ca/trinity/trinity-oneness-unity-plural-nouns-pronouns-verbs-adverbs.htm
contact the author
Begin with what is clear rather than relying so heavily on grammar technicalities and interpretations.
Deuteronomy 4:35 - "To you it was shown, that you might know that the Lord is God; there is no other besides him."
Deuteronomy 6:4 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one."
Deuteronomy 32:39 - "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me."
2 Samuel 7:22 - "There is no God besides you."
1 Kings 8:60 - "The Lord is God; there is no other."
Nehemiah 9:6 - "You alone are the Lord."
Psalm 83:18 - "That they may know that you alone, whose name is the Lord, are the Most High over all the earth."
Isaiah 37:16 - "You alone are God over all the kingdoms of the earth."
Isaiah 43:10 - "Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me."
Isaiah 44:6 - "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god."
Isaiah 44:8 - "Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any."
Isaiah 45:5 - "I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God."
Isaiah 45:21 - "There is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me."
Isaiah 46:9 - "I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me."
Hosea 13:4 - "You know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior."
Joel 2:27 - "You shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God and there is none else."
Zechariah 14:9 - "The Lord will be king over all the earth. On that day the Lord will be one and his name one."
Mark 12:29 - "The Lord our God, the Lord is one."
John 17:3 - "This is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God."
Romans 3:30 - "God is one."
1 Corinthians 8:4-6 - "There is no God but one… For us there is one God, the Father."
Galatians 3:20 - "God is one."
Ephesians 4:6 - "One God and Father of all."
1 Timothy 1:17 - "To the only God be honor and glory."
1 Timothy 2:5 - "There is one God."
James 2:19 - "You believe that God is one; you do well."
Jude 1:25 - "To the only God, our Savior."
Peterlag
Active Member
"The doctrine of the Trinity is not a biblical doctrine... it's the product of theological reflection." - The Christian Doctrine of God Trinitarian. E. Brunner, 1949, p. 236.It is fascinating to watch the promoters of this world's religious system justify, defend and promote their specific religious tradition of their God being a "Triune God", which was a popular religious philosophy among the Pagans religions Israel journeyed through. I imagine it was the same in Paul's time as the mainstream religion justified, defended and promoted the tradition of being circumcised before repentance and turning to God, a law given nowhere in Scriptures..
And the hypocrisy of the "Trinity" tradition is off the charts. These men, "who come in Christ's Name", preach that Jesus came to Earth as God, specifically, "The God of Abraham". And yet when this same Christ instructs His People concerning "The Feasts of the Lord", that HE Himself said, "These are MY Feasts", this world's religious system that promote the "Trinity", reject, despise them as worthless Jewish traditions, unworthy of their respect or their honor. And they create their own high days to worship their triune god.
This same "CHRIST", said of His Father, "These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. (Jn. 17:1-3)
Would this not also include Abel, Noah, Abraham? Or did the Father of the Lord's Christ not give Him anyone to save until after HE was murdered?
This same Christ "of the Bible" instructed the Faithful, "Be Ye Holy as I am Holy". Was this Christ not a Spirit? And how can I know how to be Holy, "Even as HE is Holy"? Does HE not instruct me "in the way that I should go". So then, if I believe HE is sent by His Father, the One True God, to be "MY" Lord and Savior, to create "ALL Things", to teach me in the way that I should go, should I not then submit to "HIS SAYINGS"?
And yet, the promoters of this world's religions who create an image of Him as a "triune god", completely reject and despise HIS Judgments where HE lays out specifically that which all children need to know, Jew and Gentile, that is "What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed".
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek
And where are these things found, if not in the Holy Scriptures Paul said to trust, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
Lev. 11: 45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, "for I am holy". 46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.
And yet EVERY promoter of the Christ being a "triune god", have rejected the Judgments of this Lord, and have created their own Judgments to walk in, and teach their children to walk in. And if you question them, they will demean, call names, place you in a box called "Legalist" or Judaizer, or even "Anti-Christ" for asking the question, "If you really believe Jesus is the God of Abraham, why don't you "DO" His Sayings, instead of just hearing them?"
I don't believe the God in Genesis 1 was alone before creation of all that we know. The Bible certainly doesn't teach so. The Jesus "of the Bible" said,
Matt. 10: 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
Phil. 2: 6 Who, being in the form of God, (Spirit) thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Clearly the Jesus "of the Bible" was a servant of His Father who sent Him. And according to His Words recorded in the Holy Scriptures, HE was Sent even before Abraham.
There were undoubtedly immortal spirit beings which existed with God before Adam and Eve were created. If God created mortal life on earth through the Christ, which I believe HE did, and gave HIM power over all flesh to as many as His Father gave Him, which I also believe, it seems perfectly understandable that God would say, "Let "us" create man after "our" own image".
But there is nothing here to promote the ancient, and very popular pagan religious philosophy that "God" is a "triune God".
Ps. 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, (One True God) is for ever and ever: the "sceptre" of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou (The Sceptre of God's Kingdom) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, thy (The Sceptre's) God, "hath anointed thee" (The Sceptre) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
The whole "Trinity" god philosophy has been around a long time.
View attachment 2119 View attachment 2120 View attachment 2122 View attachment 2123 View attachment 2124
But for me and my family, we will serve the Lord of the Bible. And He Specifically addressed this very "Triune god" tradition, in HIS Instruction in Righteousness.
Ex. 20: 1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee "any graven image", or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
So although it is popular, and I am surrounded by "Many", who come in Christ's Name to promote it, I'm sticking with the One True God, and the Jesus "HE" Sent.
“Trinity is not a biblical doctrine" - New Bible Dictionary, J. Douglas, F. Bruce, 1982, p. 1298.
“Scholars generally agree that there is no doctrine of the Trinity as such in either the Old or the New Testament” - The Harper Collins Encyclopedia of Catholicism, 1995, p. 564.
“The Bible has no statements or speculations concerning a trinitary deity." - Encyclopedia Britannica, volume 12, p. 383, 1979.
“Three coequal partners in the Godhead cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the Bible. It's important to avoid reading the Trinity into places where it does not appear." -Oxford Companion to the Bible, Bruce Metzger, M. Coogan, p. 782-3.
“The doctrine of the Trinity is not present in biblical thought... it goes beyond, and even distorts, what the Bible says about God.” - A Contemporary Interpretation of the Trinity - God in Three Persons: Professor M. Erickson, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary,p. 12, 20.
“The belief (in a Trinity-God) was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly and formally a biblical belief." -Dictionary of the Bible, 1995, (trinitarian) J. Mckenzie, p. 899.
“The doctrine of the Trinity was formulated in the post-biblical period." - Harper’s Bible Dictionary, 1985.
“In the New Testament there is no direct suggestion of a doctrine of the Trinity." - An Encyclopedia of Religion, V. Ferm (ed.), 1945, p. 344.
“No passage of Scripture discusses the threeness of God." - The New International Version. Disciples Study Bible, p. 173, note for Mt. 3:16.
“The Bible does not state that there is one God who exists in three persons” - Basic Theology, Professor C. Ryrie, p. 89.
“The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the Trinity” -Christian Doctrine, Professor S. Guthrie, Columbia Theological Seminary, 1994,p. 92.
“The doctrine of the Trinity cannot be justified on the basis of Scripture. Indeed it's hard to imagine Jesus speaking in such terms" - An Outline of Biblical Theology, Professor M. Burrows, Yale Divinity School, p. 81.
“The doctrine of God as existing in three persons and one substance is not demonstrable by scriptural proofs." - Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, 1898.
“There is in the Old Testament no indication of interior distinctions in the God-head. And there is no doctrine of the Trinity in the New Testament” - The Known Bible and its Defense, Reverend M. Hembre, 1933, p. 25.
The above is from volume one of a two volume paper called...
Sleight Of Mind
by: Steven Blake
Runningman
Active Member
Well, it would be like taking all of your writings and posts, cherry picking the things you said out of context, to make it sound like you're saying something that you were not actually saying. All of the Trinitarian prooftexts are immediately contradicted by the context, which they tend to avoid like the plague.
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