Your Views on The Trinity

[Runningman]

Civic,

In your understanding, would this be the same Holy Spirit that was given to Zacharias in Luke 1: 67 "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people"?

Yes or no.

The holy Spirit is an anointing an empowerment in this context, not God Himself. In Acts, people were repeatedly "filled" with the holy Spirit because it was something that needed to be refilled. Compare Acts 4:24, Acts 4:31, Acts 2:4, Acts Acts 4:8, Acts 9:17, and Acts 13:9

 

[FreeInChrist]

Someone's spirit is never said to be a different person to one's own self in the Bible.

But the Holy Spirit who lives in me is.

You're making too many assumptions because you don't know who God is.

I am assuming nothing.

Here's a question, if the Spirit of God is a third person, then the below verse means the Father and Son have no idea what the thoughts of God are?

Wrong

1 Corinthians 2
11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him?

And the Holy Spirit if He lives with in man.

So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

And the Son... who is of the same essence as the Father, as all three are one essence within the Godhead.

Each sharing the same divine nature.

Allowing for making them fully and equally God while remaining distinct from one another.

They all know the thoughts of each other.

You will never understand and I am not going to try and explain it further.

You have been given all you need.

 

[Studyman]

no

So then, in your religion, the Spirit of Christ who saved Noah, that was on Abraham, on the Prophets, Caleb, David, Zacharias and Simeon, is a different spirit than was given to the Church of God on Pentecost, that Peter said God gives to those who obey Him, that Jesus Promised to give the Faithful after HE ascended to His Father?

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

But in your religion, The Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit were two completely different Spirits?

Is. 43: 1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. 2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

Is this not the Spirit of Christ?

Joshua 1:9 – “Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.”

Matt. 28: 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matt. 13: 5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. 6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Isaiah 41:10 “Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.”​

Matt. 18: 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

I just don't believe the bible supports the popular triune god theology. That the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit are two separate Spirits.

But the Catholics and her Protestant daughters all promote your religion here, so I am in the minority that is true.

Gal. 2: 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I believe the Bible teaches it was the Spirit of Christ on Stephen and Shadrack, on Cornelius and David.

It was the Spirit of Christ who revealed Himself to Abraham and Zacharias and Simeon and Anna.

You are free to promote an image of a triune God if you like, Jesus clearly didn't prescribe to that tradition.

 

[mikesw]

But the Holy Spirit who lives in me is.


I am assuming nothing.


Wrong


And the Holy Spirit if He lives with in man.



And the Son... who is of the same essence as the Father, as all three are one essence within the Godhead.

Each sharing the same divine nature.

Allowing for making them fully and equally God while remaining distinct from one another.

They all know the thoughts of each other.

You will never understand and I am not going to try and explain it further.

You have been given all you need.

Interesting about 1 Corinthians 2:11 (ESV)
11For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
This verse and Gal 3:2 point to a distinction between the Spirit and God. If Paul meant it differently, he could have said that no one comprehends the thoughts of God except God. In Gal 3:2, Paul could have said "Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the God by works of the law or by hearing with faith?"
The unique person of the Spirit is evident. I think it is important for unitarians to avoid verses like this when they try to argue against the essence of God in scripture.

 

[civic]

So then, in your religion, the Spirit of Christ who saved Noah, that was on Abraham, on the Prophets, Caleb, David, Zacharias and Simeon, is a different spirit than was given to the Church of God on Pentecost, that Peter said God gives to those who obey Him, that Jesus Promised to give the Faithful after HE ascended to His Father?

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

But in your religion, The Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit were two completely different Spirits?

Is. 43: 1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. 2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

Is this not the Spirit of Christ?

Joshua 1:9 – “Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.”

Matt. 28: 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matt. 13: 5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. 6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Isaiah 41:10 “Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.”​

Matt. 18: 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

I just don't believe the bible supports the popular triune god theology. That the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit are two separate Spirits.

But the Catholics and her Protestant daughters all promote your religion here, so I am in the minority that is true.

Gal. 2: 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I believe the Bible teaches it was the Spirit of Christ on Stephen and Shadrack, on Cornelius and David.

It was the Spirit of Christ who revealed Himself to Abraham and Zacharias and Simeon and Anna.

You are free to promote an image of a triune God if you like, Jesus clearly didn't prescribe to that tradition.

Nice try since the Son is a Person in the exact same way the Father is a Person in the OT and before creation

 

[Studyman]

The holy Spirit is an anointing an empowerment in this context, not God Himself.

Runningman, I believe God is a Holy Spirit. If HIS Spirit is in a man's mind, then God Himself in a man's mind.

In Acts, people were repeatedly "filled" with the holy Spirit because it was something that needed to be refilled. Compare Acts 4:24, Acts 4:31,

The demons can also say, " Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is". The Pope preaches this, Kenneth Copeland preaches this.

31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the "word of God" with boldness.

If the "Word of God" is in someone, isn't that "Spirit and Life"? Was the Word of God not in Zacharias, Simeon and Anna?

Acts 2:4,

Acts 2: 1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Please consider these questions in the context of seeking God's Truth. How was it that these men were gathered together in One Place on Pentecost? How did they know when Pentecost was? Whose "WORDS" directed them to be gathered on this specific day?

Acts 5: 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, "whom God hath given" to them that obey him.

How is this any different than Zacharias and Simeon, of Meshack and Caleb?

Acts Acts 4:8,

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, 9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

How is this any different than;

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

Same Christ, Same Spirit, Yes?

Acts 9:17,

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Remember what Paul told the Christ.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

And didn't Paul obey the vision?

and Acts 13:9

Acts 13: 9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, 10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

1 Peter 1: 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that "not unto themselves", "but unto us they did minister the things", which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

I know the promoters of the triune god believe there are several "Holy Spirits", with One being part of the Godhead. But doesn't all these Scriptures Speak to the Same Spirit of Christ?

 

[Peterlag]

Please actually read the posts you reply to, and then address them. Nowhere do I support or promote a triune god. I am not interested in any of the "other voices" in the garden God placed me in, only what the Scriptures actually say. I know there is nowhere in Scriptures where a triune god is promoted. If you were to read my post, you would know this.

I read every single word you wrote very carefully and then posted what I did for your enjoyment. And that was my second choice. My first thought was to give you a gift with is this book... https://walking-by-the-spirit.com

 

[Studyman]

Nice try since the Son is a Person in the exact same way the Father is a Person in the OT and before creation

Your declaration that God isn't a Spirit, or that the Christ wasn't a Spirit as HE fed and watered Israel is another popular philosophy promoted by "many" who come in Christ's Name. But if a person believes in the Christ "of the Bible", they will know that God is a Spirit.

 

[civic]

Your declaration that God isn't a Spirit, or that the Christ wasn't a Spirit as HE fed and watered Israel is another popular philosophy promoted by "many" who come in Christ's Name. But if a person believes in the Christ "of the Bible", they will know that God is a Spirit.

I never said He was not spirit, my point is He is a Person in the OT just as the Father is a Person.

Is your god a person ? yes or no

 

[Studyman]

I read every single word you wrote very carefully and then posted what I did for your enjoyment. And that was my second choice. My first thought was to give you a gift with is this book... https://walking-by-the-spirit.com

Perhaps I misunderstood. It seemed you were implying that I adhere to the popular triune God philosophy, which I don't. If I misunderstood, my apologies. While I do appreciate your intent concerning the book you sent me, I do not seek them or read them. I am not a strong person, and certainly if Solomon can be corrupted by inviting other voices into his temple, much more a nobody like me would be corrupted. So I don't go outside the Scriptures for understanding.

The Trinity is not found in scriptures, that is why I do not adopt that specific philosophy. But I don't believe God was alone prior to creation either, and that there were immortal Spirits, at least One, who thought it not robbery to be equal with the God they served. A God HE knew was Greater than He. The "Christ" was this Spirit, in my view, and God gave "him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him". Noah, Abraham, Abel, Caleb just to name a few, were some of these men.

 

[Studyman]

I never said He was not spirit, my point is He is a Person in the OT just as the Father is a Person.

Is your god a person ? yes or no

Your question in contradictory. The Christ's Father was never a "person" in the OT, according to the definition. And Still isn't, since Jesus is serving HIM to this Day as an advocate between me and His Father.

Person "a human being regarded as an individual".

God "a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity".

Jesus said His Father Gives Him men and that HE gave Jesus Power over all flesh. He, that is, the Jesus "of the Bible" is my Lord and Savior, as defined in the definition above. He was a Spirit who became mortal human that was killed, raised from the dead and given immortality.

If HE wasn't "raised from the dead", then HE would be just a person as you define Him. But HE was raised from the Dead and given immortality, therefore HE is, by definition, my God since HE was given authority over all mortal flesh, which I am.

 

[Peterlag]

Perhaps I misunderstood. It seemed you were implying that I adhere to the popular triune God philosophy, which I don't. If I misunderstood, my apologies. While I do appreciate your intent concerning the book you sent me, I do not seek them or read them. I am not a strong person, and certainly if Solomon can be corrupted by inviting other voices into his temple, much more a nobody like me would be corrupted. So I don't go outside the Scriptures for understanding.

The Trinity is not found in scriptures, that is why I do not adopt that specific philosophy. But I don't believe God was alone prior to creation either, and that there were immortal Spirits, at least One, who thought it not robbery to be equal with the God they served. A God HE knew was Greater than He. The "Christ" was this Spirit, in my view, and God gave "him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him". Noah, Abraham, Abel, Caleb just to name a few, were some of these men.

Well, now we can debate some data right here if you would enjoy doing so. What would like me to comment on first?

Jesus who was nowhere until he was born or the Holy Spirit who is God?

 

[Studyman]

Well, now we can debate some data right here if you would enjoy doing so. What would like me to comment on first?

Jesus who was nowhere until he was born or the Holy Spirit who is God?

I am happy to discuss what is actually written in Scriptures, not so much the outside sources that men post to support their specific philosophy.

1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock "that followed them": and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

It was the Spirit of this Christ who became mortal Flesh, a Christ that existed even before Abraham, according to Him. This would be, in my understanding, "the glory which He had with His Father before the world was".

There isn't anything in Scriptures to contradict this understanding. But there are "many" preachers, "who call Jesus Lord, Lord", that don't really believe His Words concerning these things.

 

[civic]

Your question in contradictory. The Christ's Father was never a "person" in the OT, according to the definition. And Still isn't, since Jesus is serving HIM to this Day as an advocate between me and His Father.

Person "a human being regarded as an individual".

God "a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity".

Jesus said His Father Gives Him men and that HE gave Jesus Power over all flesh. He, that is, the Jesus "of the Bible" is my Lord and Savior, as defined in the definition above. He was a Spirit who became mortal human that was killed, raised from the dead and given immortality.

If HE wasn't "raised from the dead", then HE would be just a person as you define Him. But HE was raised from the Dead and given immortality, therefore HE is, by definition, my God since HE was given authority over all mortal flesh, which I am.

So your god is impersonal , good to know.

 

[FreeInChrist]

So your god is impersonal , good to know.

@Studyman

I think @civic will agree with me and others about how personal our God, the Heavenly Father is when He. our God knows the number of hairs on our heads, which signifies that He cares deeply about all of His children and values every detail of our lives. This concept is expressed in the Bible, particularly in passages like Luke 12:7 and Matthew 10:30

As far as you calling Jesus "YOUR" God. I guess you do not have a relationship with the Father either?

That is too bad for if you had one with all three in the Godhead you would know exactly why every time I think about that I go WOW.

 

[Studyman]

So your god is impersonal , good to know.

Sigh!

 

[Runningman]

But the Holy Spirit who lives in me is.

Yes and the Holy Spirit also lived in Jesus. Jesus is a temple of God just like others like you and I.

Wrong

Exactly, it saying "So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." Doesn't mean that the Father doesn't know what the thoughts of God are, contrary to it saying "no one knows except... the Spirit..." it's because the Father is the Spirit, but the Son does not know what the Father knows according to Matthew 24:36 because the Son is not God.

And the Holy Spirit if He lives with in man.



And the Son... who is of the same essence as the Father, as all three are one essence within the Godhead.

Each sharing the same divine nature.

Allowing for making them fully and equally God while remaining distinct from one another.

They all know the thoughts of each other.

You will never understand and I am not going to try and explain it further.

You have been given all you need.

I don't need the Athanasian Creed. Let's stick with the Bible only.

 

[civic]

Sigh!

BTW God is not a spirit, He is spirit. Christ is not a spirit either.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yes and the Holy Spirit also lived in Jesus. Jesus is a temple of God just like others like you and I.

Exactly, it saying "So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." Doesn't mean that the Father doesn't know what the thoughts of God are, contrary to it saying "no one knows except... the Spirit..." it's because the Father is the Spirit, but the Son does not know what the Father knows according to Matthew 24:36 because the Son is not God.

I don't need the Athanasian Creed. Let's stick with the Bible only.

Its a creed? I had no idea. I just wrote what I was inspired to because I do let the Holy Spirit guide me as he wants.

Yoou should give it a try. It is very enlightening to know you have written things and then the next day or 2 days later
see what you have written and know you have been the means for a truth to be revealed. a double WOW.

BTW what is the Athanasian Creed?

 

[Runningman]

Its a creed? I had no idea. I just wrote what I was inspired to because I do let the Holy Spirit guide me as he wants.

Yoou should give it a try. It is very enlightening to know you have written things and then the next day or 2 days later
see what you have written and know you have been the means for a truth to be revealed. a double WOW.

BTW what is the Athanasian Creed?

Interesting that God inspired no one in the Bible to give us a heads up about that.

Anyway, yeah what you wrote sounds like the Athanasian Creed.

I'll paste it here:

Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable,
the Son is immeasurable,
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal,
the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings;
there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty,
the Son is almighty,
the Holy Spirit is almighty.
Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord,
so catholic religion forbids us
to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.
The Son was neither made nor created;
he was begotten from the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers;
there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller;
in their entirety the three persons
are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity
and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;
and he is human from the essence of his mother,
born in time;
completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father as regards divinity,
less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however,
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,
but by God's taking humanity to himself.
He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence,
but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,
so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation;
he descended to hell;
he arose from the dead;
he ascended to heaven;
he is seated at the Father's right hand;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
At his coming all people will arise bodily
and give an accounting of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.