Why do Calvinists deny there is the gospel of grace ?

[brightfame52]

Sorry Rom 11:5-6 does not teach unconditional election

Did you not read it?

Romans 11:4 (NASB 2020) — 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”

That is a condition

Grace reigning begins with Sovereign unconditional election of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Yeah I read it, God gave the reason why they had not bowed the knee, Because they were of the election of Grace that He reserved for Himself

reserved for my self kataleipō:
to cause to be left over, to reserve, to leave remaining

Thats the remnant He chose for Himself according to the election of grace. If He would not have acted for Himself, they too would bowed the Knee to ball. But He kept them back, He was active for Himself.

This just reinforces my point DUH

 

[TomL]

Grace reigning begins with Sovereign unconditional election of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Yeah I read it, God gave the reason why they had not bowed the knee, Because they were of the election of Grace that He reserved for Himself

reserved for my self kataleipō:
to cause to be left over, to reserve, to leave remaining

Thats the remnant He chose for Himself according to the election of grace. If He would not have acted for Himself, they too would bowed the Knee to ball. But He kept them back, He was active for Himself.

This just reinforces my point DUH

You failed to address the obvious

Sorry Rom 11:5-6 does not teach unconditional election

Did you not read it?

Romans 11:4 (NASB 2020) — 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”

That is a condition

Hello

 

[brightfame52]

You failed to address the obvious

Sorry Rom 11:5-6 does not teach unconditional election

Did you not read it?

Romans 11:4 (NASB 2020) — 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”

That is a condition

Hello

Grace reigning begins with Sovereign unconditional election of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Yeah I read it, God gave the reason why they had not bowed the knee, Because they were of the election of Grace that He reserved for Himself

reserved for my self kataleipō:
to cause to be left over, to reserve, to leave remaining

Thats the remnant He chose for Himself according to the election of grace. If He would not have acted for Himself, they too would bowed the Knee to ball. But He kept them back, He was active for Himself.

This just reinforces my point DUH

 

[TomL]

Grace reigning begins with Sovereign unconditional election of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Yeah I read it, God gave the reason why they had not bowed the knee, Because they were of the election of Grace that He reserved for Himself

reserved for my self kataleipō:
to cause to be left over, to reserve, to leave remaining

Thats the remnant He chose for Himself according to the election of grace. If He would not have acted for Himself, they too would bowed the Knee to ball. But He kept them back, He was active for Himself.

This just reinforces my point DUH

You continue ignoring the obvious condition

You failed to address the obvious

Sorry Rom 11:5-6 does not teach unconditional election

Did you not read it?

Romans 11:4 (NASB 2020) — 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”

That is a condition

And it seems scripture is not your authority

 

[atpollard]

Choosing to walk in humility before God or their choosing not to.

The Lord is near to them that are of a contrite heart; and will save the lowly in spirit. Ps 34:18

That's your answer but I think we've had this conversation before. You somehow conclude that's not good enough and tread out in an area of further speculation insisting A just can't be the concluding answer. The only reason you conclude this is that you want to ram in a conclusion that irresistible force Calvinism (which you call irresistible grace) had to be a part. It didn't. It's just something you're insisting upon not found in scripture. .

Just today in my Bible reading I came across the following, Matt 11:25

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Here Jesus says he reveals himself to those who choose to be receptive to the word of God and act like children. Not one word there that he chose to reveal himself to the elect ) 26Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (now he reveals to whom he will reveal himself.....to anyone and to all who will come....It's an open invitation to ALL) 28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Which is it … in one post you tell me that it is all about one man choosing and one man not choosing and I should accept that … then in the VERY NEXT POST you quote from scripture that it is all about the Father HIDING and the Son CHOOSING TO REVEAL.

Yet you are incredulous that I have questions at your answers!
From where I sit TRYING to understand … you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[TomL]

Which is it … in one post you tell me that it is all about one man choosing and one man not choosing and I should accept that … then in the VERY NEXT POST you quote from scripture that it is all about the Father HIDING and the Son choosing to reveal.

Yet you are incredulous that I have questions at your answers!
From where I sit TRYING to understand … you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

In context

Matthew 11:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

The wise and the prudent are those who are wise in their own eyes and unwilling to listen while the babes are those who are humble and receptive to learning from God

 

[atpollard]

Because he chose to. The choser is the reason for the choice

So what then is the “power” of the Gospel?
You have placed the POWER in the heart of the HEARER, not in the MESSAGE of the Gospel … it certainly had no power for the man that walked away.

Can you at least see that the man who CHOSE to believe was saved by his personal merit of choosing well even as the man who chose to not believe was damned by his personal inferior decision. It is a meritorious salvation.

 

[atpollard]

In context

Matthew 11:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

The wise and the prudent are those who are wise in their own eyes and unwilling to listen while the babes are those who are humble and receptive to learning from God

WHO did the hiding and revealing in those verses?
WHO is in control of salvation?

 

[atpollard]

A hypothetical christian stands on a soap box and preaches the “gospel” to two men.
One hearer falls to his knees weeping and is saved that very hour.
The other hearer curses at the speaker and walks away.

Both heard the same gospel … why does the power only save one?
(Why does only one believe?)

@civic
Plenty of LIKES, but I am still waiting for YOU to respond to questions about YOUR post.
Unless the others are sock-puppets, they cannot answer what YOU were thinking.

(I was trying to engage with your OP).

 

[TomL]

WHO did the hiding and revealing in those verses?
WHO is in control of salvation?

The Father had truth from the unresponsive. He did not make them unresponsive

 

[civic]

A hypothetical christian stands on a soap box and preaches the “gospel” to two men.
One hearer falls to his knees weeping and is saved that very hour.
The other hearer curses at the speaker and walks away.

Both heard the same gospel … why does the power only save one?
(Why does only one believe?)

its up to man to believe or reject the gospel.


John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

 

[Rockson]

So what then is the “power” of the Gospel?

The power of the gospel is the Eternal Life contained in God's word and is released as one chooses to believe and receive God's grace. Then God's transforming power is released into one's spirit causing them to become born again. Jn 6:63, Jn 6:68 Jn 1:12

You have placed the POWER in the heart of the HEARER, not in the MESSAGE of the Gospel … it certainly had no power for the man that walked away.

I'd kindly suggest you've got your mind on the wrong thing here. Parable : Two men are in a store considering buying a generator. One chooses to do so....the other does not. So why did the one who walked away not later experience power? Because he didn't do what it took to receive or appropriate the offered blessing or what would become a benefit of doing so. To run anything in your house takes power but that doesn't mean one can't make a choice to have or not have the transforming power that will recreate their life.

 

[TomL]

So what then is the “power” of the Gospel?
You have placed the POWER in the heart of the HEARER, not in the MESSAGE of the Gospel … it certainly had no power for the man that walked away.

Can you at least see that the man who CHOSE to believe was saved by his personal merit of choosing well even as the man who chose to not believe was damned by his personal inferior decision. It is a meritorious salvation.

The power of the gospel is to convert the soul of the one who believes it

in Calvinist theology the gospel is powerless as Calvinists hold man cannot believe or even understand it. Man is elected and regenerated apart from the gospel and Christ in that theology

 

[Rockson]

Can you at least see that the man who CHOSE to believe was saved by his personal merit of choosing well even as the man who chose to not believe was damned by his personal inferior decision. It is a meritorious salvation.

You're using as your foundation a false premise though We're told we're not saved by the seeking to keep the law....meaning the Jewish laws as found in the writings of Moses. You're making it seem that even a choice to accept and believe by faith constitutes a work of the law. It doesn't.

 

[atpollard]

The Father had truth from the unresponsive. He did not make them unresponsive

How can you know someone is unresponsive if God hides the truth from them?
How can ANY human being say what would have happened if God had revealed the truth to them?

I accuse you of not responding to everything that I HAVE NOT at told you. [can you see the problem?]

 

[brightfame52]

You continue ignoring the obvious condition

You failed to address the obvious

Sorry Rom 11:5-6 does not teach unconditional election

Did you not read it?

Romans 11:4 (NASB 2020) — 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”

That is a condition

And it seems scripture is not your authority

Grace reigning begins with Sovereign unconditional election of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Yeah I read it, God gave the reason why they had not bowed the knee, Because they were of the election of Grace that He reserved for Himself

reserved for my self kataleipō:
to cause to be left over, to reserve, to leave remaining

Thats the remnant He chose for Himself according to the election of grace. If He would not have acted for Himself, they too would bowed the Knee to ball. But He kept them back, He was active for Himself.

This just reinforces my point DUH

 

[atpollard]

its up to man to believe or reject the gospel.

So the saved have “something” to boast about … the merit of our wise choice.

 

[civic]

A hypothetical christian stands on a soap box and preaches the “gospel” to two men.
One hearer falls to his knees weeping and is saved that very hour.
The other hearer curses at the speaker and walks away.

Both heard the same gospel … why does the power only save one?
(Why does only one believe?)

you have a premise/assumption you read into scripture such as TD.

Here is a newsflash scripture teaches the opposite of total inability- it teaches total ability.

Gods word declares man can and must humble themselves.


James 4:10
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you,

James 4:6
But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

Daniel 10:12
Then he said to me, “Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words.

1 Kings 21:29
“Have you seen how Ahab has humbled himself before me? Because he has humbled himself before me, I will not bring the disaster in his days; but in his son's days I will bring the disaster upon his house.”

1 Peter 5:5
Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

Zephaniah 2:3
Seek the Lord, all you humble of the land, who do his just commands; seek righteousness; seek humility; perhaps you may be hidden on the day of the anger of the Lord.

Micah 6:8
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

Psalm 25:9
He leads the humble in what is right, and teaches the humble his way.

Proverbs 11:2
When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with the humble is wisdom.

Proverbs 3:34
Toward the scorners he is scornful, but to the humble he gives favor.

Matthew 23:12
Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

How many times must God say something before the calvinist will believe Gods word and commands ?

 

[civic]

So the saved have “something” to boast about … the merit of our wise choice.

nope saved by grace through faith.

sola fide- faith alone. no works

thats you equivocating again making a false dilemma- a strawman.

hope this helps !!!

 

[TomL]

Grace reigning begins with Sovereign unconditional election of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Yeah I read it, God gave the reason why they had not bowed the knee, Because they were of the election of Grace that He reserved for Himself

reserved for my self kataleipō:
to cause to be left over, to reserve, to leave remaining

Thats the remnant He chose for Himself according to the election of grace. If He would not have acted for Himself, they too would bowed the Knee to ball. But He kept them back, He was active for Himself.

This just reinforces my point DUH

still contradicting the text I see

You failed to address the obvious

Sorry Rom 11:5-6 does not teach unconditional election

Did you not read it?

Romans 11:4 (NASB 2020) — 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”

That is a condition

And it seems scripture is not your authority