Why All Is Not Ordained

I did respond to it.

How does this verse make sense if everyone has the ability to see, hear, and perceive?

Deuteronomy 29:4 Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day.
No you did not

You assumed a meaning and did not respond to different interpretations or how your interpretation is contrary to both old and New Testament scripture

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?

Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Jesus clearly states he hides truth for some as otherwise they would repent and be forgiven

Mark 4:10–12 (ESV) — 10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that “ ‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’ ”

unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Second you assume Deut 29:4 means what?

They needed a change to their being before they could understand or see?

Or God had not explained the significance of the events when he led them out of the desert?

Or they had not yet come to understand. but would as God would teach them through various trials and discipline see in Ch 30:1-10.

Through this they would learn their proper way to relate to God and alternate sources which would seek to take the place of God

The first understanding which you would affirm would be contrary to the verses posted so it cannot be right

It is also contrary to what we see in the very next chapter

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (KJV 1900) — 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

thus should be ruled out

Now had you read you should have seen your understanding of what is being stated is defective or at least tried to address the objection
 
I did respond to it.

How does this verse make sense if everyone has the ability to see, hear, and perceive?

Deuteronomy 29:4 Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day.
 
Let me know when you are really willing to engage


I engaged. You quoted some scripture and asked the question, why would God have to blind some people if they couldn't already see?

I quoted scripture and asked the question, if everyone can already see, why does it say that God had not yet given them eyes to see, ears to hear, or a heart to perceive? I could have gone on and quoted where Deuteronomy says that in the future God WILL change people and write the law on their hearts (that is, give them eyes to see, etc.). So their default condition is crippled inability until God gives them the ability.

One might say that God blinded their eyes, etc., to begin with and hasn't yet undone that. It's called the fall.
 
I engaged. You quoted some scripture and asked the question, why would God have to blind some people if they couldn't already see?

I quoted scripture and asked the question, if everyone can already see, why does it say that God had not yet given them eyes to see, ears to hear, or a heart to perceive? I could have gone on and quoted where Deuteronomy says that in the future God WILL change people and write the law on their hearts (that is, give them eyes to see, etc.). So their default condition is crippled inability until God gives them the ability.

One might say that God blinded their eyes, etc., to begin with and hasn't yet undone that. It's called the fall.
Sorry no you did not

You assumed a particular interpretation refuse to consider alternate interpretations or deal with rebuttal

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/why-all-is-not-ordained.1571/post-71931
 
Does something dead choose to come to life?
According to scripture

John 5:24–25 (ESV) — 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. 25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

The dead live when they believe

John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
 
According to scripture

John 5:24–25 (ESV) — 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. 25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

The dead live when they believe

John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
So your answer would be yes?
 
So your answer would be yes?
The answer is when the dead believe God makes them alive

Care to actually deal with the verses

John 5:24–25 (ESV) — 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. 25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
 
The answer is when the dead believe God makes them alive

Care to actually deal with the verses

John 5:24–25 (ESV) — 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. 25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
So the dead can choose to live? Yes or no?
 
The answer is when the dead believe God makes them alive

Care to actually deal with the verses

John 5:24–25 (ESV) — 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life.

But Tom, you don't believe God, at least according to your preaching. You preach to the entire world that God is no different than man, and His Commandments and Statutes are "man's Traditions" and Rudiments of this world, and Beggarly Elements. His Son, the Jesus "of the Bible", teaches;

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

But you refuse to even acknowledge His Words, much less believe them.

He says;

Mark 2: 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

But you preach to the world the complete opposite. That God's sabbaths and Pagan high days are the exact same thing.

His Father says;

Lev. 23: 1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. 4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

But you preach to anyone who will listen to you that these are traditions of men, vain deceit, Beggarly Elements and a Yoke of Bondage.

Paul says "Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

You preach to the world that "Paul's Creed was against God's Law".

Clearly you call Jesus Lord, Lord. You come in His Name, you "Profess to know God". But by your works, your preaching, it is clear you don't believe in the Word of God which became Flesh or the God who Sent Him.

What if it isn't Jesus or His Father's Word that is the deception, but the religious philosophy of this world that you have adopted and are now promoting to others, that Jesus and Paul warned about? What if God is Holy, and His Laws are Holy, Just and Spiritual, and it is the imagination of your heart that is evil. What if Paul is right, "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." And it is you who is deceived and are deceiving others with your preaching, "Paul's Creed was against God's Law"?

The Mainstream Preachers of Jesus and Paul's time also professed to know God, just as you do. And they also rejected God and HIS Word which became flesh. They also preached to the world that Jesus and Paul's "Creed was against God's Law".

What if God is Perfect, like Jesus said He was, and it is you who is in need of repentance and change?
 
But Tom, you don't believe God, at least according to your preaching. You preach to the entire world that God is no different than man, and His Commandments and Statutes are "man's Traditions" and Rudiments of this world, and Beggarly Elements. His Son, the Jesus "of the Bible", teaches;
This also is the word of God


Galatians 4:21–31 (ESV) — 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.” 28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31 So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

as is this

Hebrews 8:7–13 (ESV) — 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. 8 For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” 13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

and this

Galatians 3:19–25 (ESV) — 19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

Colossians 2:16–17 (ESV) — 16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

but you will not hear it'

you reject what is stated in the better covenant to return to the old covenant

Gal 4:21ff is written to such as you

BTW this is hoe verse appears in the KJV

Galatians 4:9–11 (KJV 1900) — 9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

there is word world there

or here

Galatians 4:9 (LSB) — 9 But now, having known God, or rather having been known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you want to be enslaved all over again?

or here

Galatians 4:9 (NIV) — 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?

or here

Galatians 4:9 (UASV) — 9 But now that you have come to know God or, rather, have come to be known by God, how is it that you are turning back again to the weak and worthless elementary things and want to slave for them over again?
 
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This also is the word of God

Jesus said we are to Live by "Every Word" of God. Not just a few scriptures you can twist and use to promote your religious philosophy "that Jesus' and Paul's Creed was against the Father's Law". I mean, you must do that, you must ignore and Omit much of God's Word in order for your particular religion to stand. But to do so is in direct disobedience to Jesus Himself. Shall a man not point out the wickedness in this teaching to warn others?

Galatians 4:21–31 (ESV) — 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?

LOL, "WHAT LAW"? Consider how stupid this is to say; "Tell me, you who desire to Love your neighbor as yourself, do you not listen to the law"? Or this; "Tell me you who desire to Love the Lord your God with all your heart, do you not listen to the Law?

But now let's consider the truth Jesus told us , that is, the Jesus "of the Bible" about the Pharisees and consider all that is written as Jesus instructs.

"Tell me, you who desire to force men to bring a goat to you and kill it for your sins, according to the Old Priesthood Law. Do you not listed to the Law?
Hebrews 8:7–13 (ESV) — 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. 8 For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” 13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Consider how hypocritical it is to preach to the world that Gods Law that HE promised to place in the minds and hearts of His People, became old and Vanished at the same time. Can you not see the contradiction in your own preaching here?

Consider how stupid and wicked it is to preach to others that "Loving God with all our hearts, and Loving our neighbor as thyself" and all that defines that, is a carnal commandment which has grown old and has become obsolete.

But if a person actually considers Every Word of God as the Jesus of the Bible instructs, and believes them, like Paul did.

Acts 24: 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

This man understand that what became old and ready to vanish away was the Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" for the forgiveness of sins, replaced by a New Priesthood in which the Christ offered HIS Own Blood once and for all. As Hebrews also tell you, but you can not believe the Words.

Heb. 7: 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood "being changed", there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, (Not Levites) of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; (Not Levi) of which tribe Moses spake nothing "concerning priesthood".

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

So then, to understand chapter 8, you would have to consider and understand chapter 7. What became old and vanished was not God's Commandments, Statutes and Laws HE promised to write on the hearts of his People, Rather, what changed was the Priesthood LAW God "ADDED" because of Transgressions, "Till the Seed should come".

Just because you don't believe what is written, doesn't make what is written false.

and this


Galatians 3:19–25 (ESV) — 19 Why then the law?

"What Law"?
It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.

As the scriptures showed you, that I posted but you do not believe, they were required by Law to bring a goat to a Levite Priest and kill it for forgiveness of their sins. This Sacrificial Law, a shadow of the Christ's Sacrifice was to lead them to their Redeemer, the True Lamb of God. Zacharias, Simeon and Anna were Led to the Christ in Faith even before Jesus was born. It's in your own Bible, but you won't believe it.



24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

Faith in God is belief that HE sent His Son to be our Priest and forgive our sins. We are no longer under the Levitical Priesthood. Just because you don't believe all that is written, doesn't make what is written untrue.

Colossians 2:16–17 (ESV) — 16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Yes, I will not let you judge me as a sinner for walking, even as the Christ walked.


but you will not hear it'

I hear what Paul is teaching, not what you are peddling.

you reject what is stated in the better covenant to return to the old covenant

Your "new covenant" and God's New Covenant are two completely different things. In your new covenant God's Laws become old and vanish away. In God's New Covenant, we no longer "Receive the Law" through the Levitical Priesthood as it became old and vanished. In god's New Covenant, He writes His Laws on the hearts of His People. It's right there in your own Bible. All you need is belief.

Gal 4:21ff is written to such as you

BTW this is hoe verse appears in the KJV

Galatians 4:9–11 (KJV 1900) — 9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

there is word world there

Again, you cherry pick scriptures, only believing the words that you can twist to promote your agenda that Jesus and Paul's creed was against God's Laws, not written in their hearts as the One True God and Father of the Lord's Christ tells you.

Here is Paul's Words you must reject and ignore in order to make your point.

Col. 2: 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments "of the world", and not after Christ.

Eph. 2: 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course "of this world", according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Col. 2: 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments "of the world", why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21(Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Gal. 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Can you not see the foolishness and frankly the ridiculousness of your preaching that the weak and Beggarly elements the Galatians walked in, "In Times Past" when they knew not God, were not the same Rudiments and course of the world the Ephesians and Colossians walked in, in times past?

How far will you go to preserve the darkness "Paul's Creed was against God's Law"?
 
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