Why All Is Not Ordained

[Rockson]

And there are 100’s of passages showing that Gods will on earth is not being done like it is in heaven which is the point in Jesus prayer guide on how and why we are to pray - otherwise His instruction becomes nonsense.

And all those passages cause the legs which hold up Calvinistic ;thought to collapse. I can appreciate it can be hard for them to see their long held views to go crashing down but God has different type of views for them to embrace ones of which in time they'll truly cherish.

 

[Presby02]

And there are 100’s of passages showing that Gods will on earth is not being done like it is in heaven which is the point in Jesus prayer guide on how and why we are to pray - otherwise His instruction becomes nonsense.

Right, so do you agree with the statement, "God's purposes cannot be thwarted, but some can"?

 

[Presby02]

And all those passages cause the legs which hold up Calvinistic ;thought to collapse. I can appreciate it can be hard for them to see their long held views to go crashing down but God has different type of views for them to embrace ones of which in time they'll truly cherish.

Do you agree with the statement, "God purposes cannot be thwarted, but some can? "

 

[civic]

Right, so do you agree with the statement, "God's purposes cannot be thwarted, but some can"?

It’s been answered

 

[Rockson]

Reminds me of the good Samaritan

True. I just put down a new thread Good Samaritan Disproves Calvinism. Think you might find it of interest.

 

[Rockson]

Do you agree with the statement, "God purposes cannot be thwarted, but some can? "

Do you agree you cut out qualifying statements to that?

 

[Rockson]

Who is teaching you these things? Pentecost had been observed by God's People since Passover was established. Even Abraham understood this. Gen. 22: 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself "a lamb" for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Sorry but your reasoning is somewhat shallow. Abraham may not even been aware he was speaking prophetically about Christ coming but at that troubling moment he was seeking to bringing temporary comfort to his son. I do believe it was a prophetic statement however. Let's bring up those couple of verses from Gen 22:7,8 and then I'll close by asking a question,

So Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife, and the two of them went together. 7But Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!”And he said, “Here I am, my son.”Then he said, “Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering8And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” So the two of them went together. Gen 22:7.8

So my question. You really feel you can take from that, Abraham knew, understood and comprehended all things which Jesus would come some day to do because of that statement he made above? I'd say that would be a stretch to say that.

 

[Presby02]

Do you agree you cut out qualifying statements to that?

Was that a yes or a no?

 

[Presby02]

It’s been answered

Nope. Yes or no?

 

[synergy]

Who is teaching you these things? Pentecost had been observed by God's People since Passover was established. Even Abraham understood this. Gen. 22: 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself "a lamb" for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Pentecost and Passover are two different events. The lamb provided for Abraham is a prefiguration of the Son of God Lamb provided afterwards by God at the Crucifixion.

To preach that Noah or Abraham was not "regenerated", and conformed to the image of Christ or that Caleb and Joshua were not regenerated and led by the Same Holy Spirit that led the Apostles is simply untrue, given what the Scriptures actually say. The Holy Scriptures teach the Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. Simeon and Anna and the Wise men knew this and were conformed to the image of Christ before HE even became a man. And were led by the Same Holy Spirit that was in the Prophets prophesying of the Messiahs coming.

This truth is written in all of our own Bibles.

Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he (The Jesus of the Bible) humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Gen. 26: 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (Just like Jesus, "Conformed to the image of Christ")

1 Kings 14: 8 And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes; (Conformed to the image of Christ)

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. (Conformed to the image of Christ)

There are many more examples of men throughout the Holy Scriptures that were conformed to the image of Christ and led by His Same Spirit that led those who participated in the first Pentecost under the New Priesthood.

There is no mention of any regeneration occurring within OT times in any of the verses you forwarded. You would have us think that Pentecost was just another day at the office with your way of thinking.

 

[civic]

Nope. Yes or no?

Answered several times already lol it up reasking does not change my answer .

 

[Presby02]

Answered several times already lol it up reasking does not change my answer .

I figured you would finally man up and answer. The great debater, according to your sock puppets, can not answer a simple question.

 

[civic]

I figured you would finally man up and answer. The great debater, according to your sock puppets, can not answer a simple question.

The sign of a defeated foe is one that resorts to personally attacking his opponent. The ad homs once again are duly noted. I’m reminded of slick and white who do the exact same thing in their debates.

Unlike them I will not ban you , turn off the mike , mute you , or walk off the set of the debate .

I will just expose your inconsistencies.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Sorry but your reasoning is somewhat shallow. Abraham may not even been aware he was speaking prophetically about Christ coming but at that troubling moment he was seeking to bringing temporary comfort to his son. I do believe it was a prophetic statement however. Let's bring up those couple of verses from Gen 22:7,8 and then I'll close by asking a question,

So Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife, and the two of them went together. 7But Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!”And he said, “Here I am, my son.”Then he said, “Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering8And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” So the two of them went together. Gen 22:7.8

So my question. You really feel you can take from that, Abraham knew, understood and comprehended all things which Jesus would come some day to do because of that statement he made above? I'd say that would be a stretch to say that.

1. The Gospel was preached to Abraham. There is only one Gospel.

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

2. Abraham received the sign of circumcision that indicated in his flesh a sign of an inward change.

Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

3. Abraham foresaw the death of Christ in his own son Isaac.

Isaac was offered upon Mount Moriah. The very place called "Gordon's Calvary". The very spot where the solder's slide his cross into the ground.

I personally believe that Abraham literally foresaw the appointed death of Jesus Christ and the resurrection.

Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

I also believe that this is very spot from which God took the very dust/ashes of the earthy to form Adam.

4. The bride of Christ can be seen in the wife of Isaac. A foretelling of the Spirit of God's work through Eliezer. The Servant of Abraham. The subservient heir of Abraham seeking a wife for Isaac. Abraham sent Eliezer out to find Rebekah.

Gen 24:2 And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:
Gen 24:3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:

Abraham literally lived the Gospel.

 

[Studyman]

Sorry but your reasoning is somewhat shallow. Abraham may not even been aware he was speaking prophetically about Christ coming but at that troubling moment he was seeking to bringing temporary comfort to his son. I do believe it was a prophetic statement however. Let's bring up those couple of verses from Gen 22:7,8 and then I'll close by asking a question,

So Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife, and the two of them went together. 7But Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!”And he said, “Here I am, my son.”Then he said, “Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering8And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” So the two of them went together. Gen 22:7.8

So my question. You really feel you can take from that, Abraham knew, understood and comprehended all things which Jesus would come some day to do because of that statement he made above? I'd say that would be a stretch to say that.

 

[Presby02]

The sign of a defeated foe is one that resorts to personally attacking his opponent. The ad homs once again are duly noted. I’m reminded of slick and white who do the exact same thing in their debates.

Unlike them I will not ban you , turn off the mike , mute you , or walk off the set of the debate .

I will just expose your inconsistencies.

I did not attack you. You refuse to answer and we both know why. You were defeated before we started. Your clearly not in my league. Your a child playing a man's game.

Like you personally attacked John MacArthur? Hypocrisy ring a bell?

 

[Rockson]

You were defeated before we started. Your clearly not in my league. Your a child playing a man's game.

Good grief I don't mean to embarrass you . I seldom if ever make a point of clear grammar mistakes a person makes for I always consider that beside the point BUT If you're going to boast in such an egotistical way of your intellectual superiority over people it might come across more credibly Pres, if you understood basic grammar. The words you should be using above should be YOU'RE not YOUR. And you did this twice. Not usually nice to mention grammar failures, but if you're claiming to be in such a higher league then we should rightly expect you not to be communicating in such a juvenile way

 

[Presby02]

Good grief I don't mean to embarrass you . I seldom if ever make a point of clear grammar mistakes a person makes for I always consider that beside the point BUT If you're going to boast in such an egotistical way of your intellectual superiority over people it might come across more credibly Pres, if you understood basic grammar. The words you should be using above should be YOU'RE not YOUR. And you did this twice. Not usually nice to mention grammar failures, but if you're claiming to be in such a higher league then we should rightly expect you not to be communicating in such a juvenile way

Just following Mr 40 year lead.

If anyone should be embarrassed here it is you.

Let me remind the audience that no purpose of God can be thwarted, but some can. This is from the guy calling me out. The guy apparently does not understand the law of non-conyradiction.

 

[TomL]

True. I just put down a new thread Good Samaritan Disproves Calvinism. Think you might find it of interest.

Thanks

 

[Rockson]

If anyone should be embarrassed here it is you.

OK Pres let's see what you've got.

Let me remind the audience that no purpose of God can be thwarted, but some can.

Be careful about seeking to get the audience's attention. No offence but you could end up becoming openly embarrassed. OK let look even more closely at the no purpose of God can be thwarted verse you keep harping about. Job 42:2
I have no problem with the ESV in how it renders the passage. I've already explained how it can all be reconciled the intent truly just meaning a certain type of purposes God has.

Now all would be confirmed with Lk 7: 30 where leaders rejected God's purpose for themselves. The same could be said of many other scriptures too. It's stunning that you can't seem to comprehend this hen you live in a universe which this plays out all the time. It could be said of any father that they're purposes are carried out but their can be a context of just what purposes of which is being spoken of.

The guy apparently does not understand the law of non-conyradiction.

There is NO contradiction at all in my post 150 where all this is explained. You purposely snip out though qualifying statements which would have helped you understand. Now you're just interested in playing a silly game. I'll choose to be confident readers can see through it all.