Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Runningman]

Because you are blind. You fail to see that scripture reveals the divinity of Christ in the Godhead without being a separate god.

No you're blind. You've failed to adequately refute the Bible with the philosophy you keep imposing on it. I think you're going to tire yourself arguing for something you will never be able to prove with Scripture. You've been on the defense everywhere you go in this forum. I am just waiting for someone to finally ask me the right questions about who God is. So far, none have asked.

 

[mikesw]

No you're blind. You've failed to adequately refute the Bible with the philosophy you keep imposing on it. I think you're going to tire yourself arguing for something you will never be able to prove with Scripture. You've been on the defense everywhere you go in this forum. I am just waiting for someone to finally ask me the right questions about who God is. So far, none have asked.

You would not be the right person to ask who God is. And if sharing scripture would have helped arguing against you, you would no longer be following a heresy.

 

[Runningman]

You would not be the right person to ask who God is. And if sharing scripture would have helped arguing against you, you would no longer be following a heresy.

I'm the right person to ask about who God is. Your heart, mind, and eyes are shut tight.

 

[Doug Brents]

I'm the right person to ask about who God is.

So you are saying you are God?

 

[Runningman]

So you are saying you are God?

??

No.

 

[mikesw]

I'm the right person to ask about who God is. Your heart, mind, and eyes are shut tight.

You will have to establish some credibility before anyone will seek you for answers.

 

[Runningman]

You will have to establish some credibility before anyone will seek you for answers.

I have just been showing you what the Bible says. I didn't write the Bible or make any of it up. On the point of credibility, it seems your problem with your disbelief is not with me, but rather the Bible. Do you believe what the Bible says?

 

[mikesw]

I have just been showing you what the Bible says. I didn't write the Bible or make any of it up. On the point of credibility, it seems your problem with your disbelief is not with me, but rather the Bible. Do you believe what the Bible says?

If you want to share an argument to support your misreading of scripture, keep doing that. If you want to be convincing, you will have to make decent arguments. All your use of Psalm 82 was more of an invalid proof text approach. I previously showed how you missed the context of Psalm 82 and the way Jesus referred to that. You made an invalid argument and it remains unconvincing.

 

[Peterlag]

A "teaching" does not require a whole paragraph or a whole chapter.
"Do not murder."
There, that is a "teaching" in only three words.

Phil 2:5-7 - "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men."

Jesus always existed in the form of God, and was completely equal with God, but did not consider it something that should be held onto, but was something He was willing to give up so that He could save us. So He emptied Himself and became a man. Yes, Phil 2:5-7 does teach that Jesus is God, and that we should believe it.

I understand "Do not murder." Do you have a verse that says "Jesus is God?"

If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...

Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.

The Epistles would have writings like...

Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.

And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.

 

[Doug Brents]

??

No.

Thanks for clarifying that for us. Then you are not the person to ask about God.

 

[Doug Brents]

I understand "Do not murder." Do you have a verse that says "Jesus is God?"

John 1:1-3, 14
Phil 2:5-7
Col 1:16
Col 2:9-10
Heb 1:8
John 20:28
And there are more.

If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it?

Why did Jesus not teach anything without using a parable (Matt 13:34)?

I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...

Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.

Matt 28:19 - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all have ONE name.

The Epistles would have writings like...

Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.

John 6:38
John 6:51
John 10:10

And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.

See above. If you haven't seen it, then either you haven't studied the Scriptures very well, or you are willfully blind.

 

[Runningman]

If you want to share an argument to support your misreading of scripture, keep doing that. If you want to be convincing, you will have to make decent arguments. All your use of Psalm 82 was more of an invalid proof text approach. I previously showed how you missed the context of Psalm 82 and the way Jesus referred to that. You made an invalid argument and it remains unconvincing.

I didn't misread anything. I have plenty of Scripture to share. If you don't believe then don't believe. I am beyond any hope that you will believe any of the verses I show you at this point.

 

[Runningman]

Thanks for clarifying that for us. Then you are not the person to ask about God.

Yes I am the person to ask about God because I know who God is based on what Jesus said and personal experience, but if that's how you feel then why are you being a hypocrite and talking about who you feel God is?

 

[mikesw]

I didn't misread anything. I have plenty of Scripture to share. If you don't believe then don't believe. I am beyond any hope that you will believe any of the verses I show you at this point.

I would agree with your assessment. The verses you showed never said what you said they would say, or they were unrelated to the broad argument you are trying to make. I also presume you tried to show the verses you thought would deny the divinity of Christ the best.

 

[Runningman]

I would agree with your assessment. The verses you showed never said what you said they would say, or they were unrelated to the broad argument you are trying to make. I also presume you tried to show the verses you thought would deny the divinity of Christ the best.

Fascinating. The only true God is the Father. Slam dunk for Unitarianism. Now your turn to deny it all and explain it all away as if it somehow overrides what the Bible says.

John 17
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 Corinthians 8
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Ephesians 4
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[Johann]

Fascinating. The only true God is the Father. Slam dunk for Unitarianism. Now your turn to deny it all and explain it all away as if it somehow overrides what the Bible says.

John 17
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 Corinthians 8
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Ephesians 4
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Unitarianism already thoroughly debunked.

J.

 

[Runningman]

Unitarianism already thoroughly debunked.

J.

Debunked would be a bit too strong of a word. I believe you want to challenge Unitarianism, which would be a more reasonable goal for you, but I haven't really seen any difficult challenges brought forth to Scripture yet.

 

[mikesw]

Debunked would be a bit too strong of a word. I believe you want to challenge Unitarianism, which would be a more reasonable goal for you, but I haven't really seen any difficult challenges brought forth to Scripture yet.

Right. You are blind to the scriptures so you are unable to understand the verses that reject Unitarianism.

 

[Peterlag]

John 1:1-3, 14
Phil 2:5-7
Col 1:16
Col 2:9-10
Heb 1:8
John 20:28
And there are more.

Why did Jesus not teach anything without using a parable (Matt 13:34)?

Matt 28:19 - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all have ONE name.

John 6:38
John 6:51
John 10:10

See above. If you haven't seen it, then either you haven't studied the Scriptures very well, or you are willfully blind.

Which verse says Jesus is God? Can you quote it?

John 1:1-3, 14
Phil 2:5-7
Col 1:16
Col 2:9-10
Heb 1:8
John 20:28

 

[Runningman]

Right. You are blind to the scriptures so you are unable to understand the verses that reject Unitarianism.

No that's not it. Here's what you and the other Trinitarians, Oneness folk, other misc. groups are doing:

You basically have a verse here and there that all say a number of different things in various contexts and you put them all together to make a new story that no one ever explicitly talked about, i.e., Trinitarianism, etc.

We can basically make the Bible say anything we want by doing this.

For example, this is where the infamous Prosperity Gospel comes from. It's absolutely possible to preach a guarantee of monetary wealth onto Christians from the Bible when, in fact, God has not made any direct promises to anyone about any such thing from the Bible. Fortunately we can actually falsify this doctrine using real-world examples and experience.

One could make a doctrine about eternal security without repentance as well. People are likely doing these things as we speak.

There is a way to teach Paul as having pre-existed in the Garden of Eden, there is a way to teach Peter is Satan incarnate, etc. This is where the cults come from.

The point is there is a way to rightly divide the Bible and another way to go too far with an idea and completely miss the mark.

What does the Bible explicitly say? John 17:3 explicitly says the Father is the only true God. Personally, I find immense security in the directness of this statement. Do you believe He really is the ONLY true God? Because this is where Unitarianism comes from. The Bible directly says what we believe without mincing words.