Can you explain what your question is about?
Thomas... My Lord and my God
- Thread starter Peterlag
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Peterlag
Well-known member
John 10:30
There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up "one God." The phrase was a common one, and even today if someone used it, people would know exactly what they meant... he and his Father are very much alike. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, "... he who plants and he who waters are one..." (1 Corinthians 3:8 NKJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up "one being." Christ uses the concept of "being one" in other places, and from them one can see that "one purpose" is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God's children "one." In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be "one" as he and God were "one." I think it's obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being in "substance" just as he and his Father were one being or "substance." I believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose.
Runningman
Well-known member
Just go back and read my comments.
Runningman
Well-known member
Your anti-Christ church leader named Martin Luth is pretty far off topic so I'd rather open a new thread in the correct sub forum. I'll ping you.
I guess your answer is "no" -- that you will not say what the queen question is about
i get it. you do not believe in justification by faith that Luther restored to Christianity.
Peterlag
Well-known member
The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time. Jesus can be called the “image” of God because he always did the will of God, and because he was the image of God is why he could say you had seen the Father if you had seen him.
Ephesians 4:4-6 says there is one God and one Lord and one spirit. This verse teaches exactly what the Jews expected based on the Old Testament and what Jesus, Peter, Paul, and others taught: that there was one God, one Lord, and one spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 8:6 says “for us there is one God, the Father… and one Lord, Jesus Christ.” This simple and straightforward language elucidates that the Father is God and the Son is “Lord” making a clear differentiation between the two.
Jesus said: “…the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). In contrast, the orthodox formula of the Trinity says the Father and the Son are “co-equal.” God is greater than Christ, just as Christ is greater than we are. 1 Corinthians 3:23 says “And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.” When the Bible says “you are Christ’s” it's saying “you belong to Christ” and many English versions say exactly that (i.e., CJB; HCSB; NASB; NET; NJB; NLT). So the verse is saying “and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God” (NASB). It seems apparent that Jesus cannot be God and belong to God at the same time.
Ephesians 4:4-6 says there is one God and one Lord and one spirit. This verse teaches exactly what the Jews expected based on the Old Testament and what Jesus, Peter, Paul, and others taught: that there was one God, one Lord, and one spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 8:6 says “for us there is one God, the Father… and one Lord, Jesus Christ.” This simple and straightforward language elucidates that the Father is God and the Son is “Lord” making a clear differentiation between the two.
Jesus said: “…the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). In contrast, the orthodox formula of the Trinity says the Father and the Son are “co-equal.” God is greater than Christ, just as Christ is greater than we are. 1 Corinthians 3:23 says “And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.” When the Bible says “you are Christ’s” it's saying “you belong to Christ” and many English versions say exactly that (i.e., CJB; HCSB; NASB; NET; NJB; NLT). So the verse is saying “and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God” (NASB). It seems apparent that Jesus cannot be God and belong to God at the same time.
Runningman
Well-known member
My answer was go back and read my comments if you want to discuss what was already said.
Nothing to discuss at the moment. I addressed the foolish points made.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
He didn't say they were "very much alike". He said they were one. He said that the Father is in Him and He is in the Father. There is no ambiguity there.
Different context but same net result. The one who waters and the one who plants are equal; they are united in producing the same result, and each will receive the reward merited by his work.
Jesus and the Father are one; they are equals united in the same work, and each has His own glory.
In what ways are the Father and Jesus and the Spirit equal?
In purpose? Yes (1 Cor 3:8)
In power? Yes (Phil 2:6)
In nature? Yes (Phil 2:6)
In purpose? Yes (John 5:19-23)
Jesus was certainly less than the Father because of His physical incarnation. But in all other ways, He is the equal of the Father.
Runningman
Well-known member
Don't be lazy. If you want to talk about something be a man, click your mouse, find the post you want to reply to, and type your message. Got it?
Peterlag
Well-known member
Philippians 2:6 is not a teaching on the trinity. It does not teach that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. A teaching would be a whole paragraph or chapter. And there's nothing like that anywhere in the Bible.
All this time I wasted on responding to your misconceptions and misinterpretations and you call that as being lazy?
Runningman
Well-known member
All this time I wasted on responding to your misconceptions and misinterpretations and you call that foolish?
I still am waiting for you to make a sufficient argument for your doctrines.
Runningman
Well-known member
This reads like you don't believe Jesus.... the doctrine of the trinity was never found on his lips according to Scripture.
I was just helping you to recognize that you will need a coherent argument if you want to convince people of a novel view of scripture.
Runningman
Well-known member
Then why are you not able to refute any of the Scripture I've shown you?
Because you are blind. You fail to see that scripture reveals the divinity of Christ in the Godhead without being a separate god.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
A "teaching" does not require a whole paragraph or a whole chapter.
"Do not murder."
There, that is a "teaching" in only three words.
Phil 2:5-7 - "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men."
Jesus always existed in the form of God, and was completely equal with God, but did not consider it something that should be held onto, but was something He was willing to give up so that He could save us. So He emptied Himself and became a man. Yes, Phil 2:5-7 does teach that Jesus is God, and that we should believe it.
