The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[Peterlag]

Jesus did not share in the glory of being God...

Why do I post this again? Because Trinitarians continue to say Jesus received worship and so he must be God. Jesus did not receive worship as God. He received worship as the son of God.

He shares the glory of being the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord Christ to the Christian who sits at the right hand of God as second in command and is the head of the Church that is called the body of Christ.

 

[Doug Brents]

Jesus did not share in the glory of being God...

Why do I post this again? Because Trinitarians continue to say Jesus received worship and so he must be God. Jesus did not receive worship as God. He received worship as the son of God.

He shares the glory of being the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord Christ to the Christian who sits at the right hand of God as second in command and is the head of the Church that is called the body of Christ.

John 17:5 - "And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed."
Jesus did have the Glory of God, and deserves worship as God, because that is who He is.

 

[JesusFan]

John 17:5 - "And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed."
Jesus did have the Glory of God, and deserves worship as God, because that is who He is.

Jesus was NOT given something never had, just what he already also had

 

[amazing grace]

Jesus was NOT given something never had, just what he already also had

Why give him something he already had?
Why take away something he already had then give it back?
If we did that as kids we were called indian givers.......

 

[Doug Brents]

Why give him something he already had?

Because He gave it up when He descended from Heaven. His glory was part of what He emptied Himself of (Phil 2:7).

Why take away something he already had then give it back?

Because to become a little lower than the angels (Heb 2:7-9), He had to give up those things that made Him higher than the angels: His glory, knowledge, independent use of His power, etc.

 

[amazing grace]

Because He gave it up when He descended from Heaven. His glory was part of what He emptied Himself of (Phil 2:7).

Yahweh emptied himself of his glory and descended from heaven into the womb of Mary?

"The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one"......This speaks as if we have also received the glory that Jesus has been given - although it is spoken of him already given it to us - it is a promise to us not yet realized because we will not manifest that glory until the resurrection. When upon the return of Jesus Christ, believers will be resurrected, transformed and conformed to the image of the Son......when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

In this same manner, the glory Jesus had with the Father before the world existed was glory promised him upon completion of the work that God sent him to do --- Jesus would receive glory through his death and resurrection.

Because to become a little lower than the angels (Heb 2:7-9), He had to give up those things that made Him higher than the angels: His glory, knowledge, independent use of His power, etc.

Psalm 8 was originally was about humanity - humanity in general was made a little lower than the angels. In Adam's original position in Eden, he was given dominion and authority over all the works of God's hands even to the naming of the animals -- but Adam lost all that through disobedience.

Now here in Hebrews, this verse is being applied to Jesus who, as a human being, was made a little lower than the angels -it's not because he gave up anything. Then the Messianic promise - to be 'crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone' ---- there's the glory promised to the Messiah, the glory he had before the world existed.

 

[Peterlag]

John 17:5 - "And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed."
Jesus did have the Glory of God, and deserves worship as God, because that is who He is.

There is no question that Jesus “existed” before the world began. But did he exist literally as a person or in God’s foreknowledge, “in the mind of God”? Both Christ and those called to be in the Body of Christ, the Church, existed in God’s foreknowledge before being alive. Christ was part of the intention of God from the beginning, and he became flesh only when he was conceived. It is Trinitarian bias that causes people to read an actual physical existence into this verse rather than a figurative existence in the mind of God. When 2 Timothy says that each Christian was given grace “before the ages began” (2 Timothy 1:9), no one tries to prove that we were actually alive with God back then. Everyone acknowledges that we were “in the mind of God,” i.e., in God’s foreknowledge. The same is true of Jesus Christ. His glory was “with the Father” before the world began, and in John 17:5 he prayed that it will come into manifestation.

 

[Peterlag]

Does Hebrews teach we are brothers of God who could do greater works than God?

Hebrews 2:10-11 teaches that we are “brothers” of Jesus and “sons of God” and Jesus is never ashamed to call us such. Hebrews is making a distinction between God and Jesus that is very important and that we lose if we think Jesus is God. We would be “brothers of God” if that were the case, but we clearly are not that. A Trinitarian explanation is that we are brothers of the man part of Jesus, but that is adding to the text. The Bible nowhere says or implies anything like that. In John 14:12, Jesus told his disciples that “whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do.” If Jesus was God, then his statement would be a commission for us to do greater works than God—which is not possible.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yahweh emptied himself of his glory and descended from heaven into the womb of Mary?

He did indeed. Yahweh, aka. LORD Jesus left Heaven after emptying Himself, and was born from the womb of the virgin Mary.

"The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one"......This speaks as if we have also received the glory that Jesus has been given - although it is spoken of him already given it to us - it is a promise to us not yet realized because we will not manifest that glory until the resurrection. When upon the return of Jesus Christ, believers will be resurrected, transformed and conformed to the image of the Son......when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

We may indeed be united with God when Jesus returns. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.
Jesus had the Glory that the Father has, before He emptied Himself of it and came to Earth (John 17:5).

In this same manner, the glory Jesus had with the Father before the world existed was glory promised him upon completion of the work that God sent him to do --- Jesus would receive glory through his death and resurrection.

He would receive it back again. He had it before, gave it up willingly, and has received it again.

Psalm 8 was originally was about humanity - humanity in general was made a little lower than the angels. In Adam's original position in Eden, he was given dominion and authority over all the works of God's hands even to the naming of the animals -- but Adam lost all that through disobedience.

Now here in Hebrews, this verse is being applied to Jesus who, as a human being, was made a little lower than the angels -it's not because he gave up anything. Then the Messianic promise - to be 'crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone' ---- there's the glory promised to the Messiah, the glory he had before the world existed.

It doesn't matter what the verse originally meant. What matters is the meaning given it in the NT passage. Jesus did indeed become lower than the angels. And He has been lifted back up to above the angels (where He started). Jesus' glory is the glory that the Father never gave up; they are equal.

 

[Doug Brents]

There is no question that Jesus “existed” before the world began. But did he exist literally as a person

Yes.

or in God’s foreknowledge, “in the mind of God”?

No.

Both Christ and those called to be in the Body of Christ, the Church, existed in God’s foreknowledge before being alive.

The Church did, true. But Christ Jesus was in Heaven with the Father before the world was created, and He shared the glory of the Father at that time (John 17:5). God does not share His glory (Isa 42:8). So if Jesus had the glory of God before the creation of the world, He was God.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes.

No.

The Church did, true. But Christ Jesus was in Heaven with the Father before the world was created, and He shared the glory of the Father at that time (John 17:5). God does not share His glory (Isa 42:8). So if Jesus had the glory of God before the creation of the world, He was God.

There's no verse that says Jesus shared the glory of being God.

 

[amazing grace]

He did indeed. Yahweh, aka. LORD Jesus left Heaven after emptying Himself, and was born from the womb of the virgin Mary.

Not scriptural.

We may indeed be united with God when Jesus returns. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.
Jesus had the Glory that the Father has, before He emptied Himself of it and came to Earth (John 17:5).

He would receive it back again. He had it before, gave it up willingly, and has received it again.

We are one with God the Father and with Jesus RIGHT NOW-----I was talking about 17:22 - the glory Jesus has given us. "The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one"...... Do you see how that is given in the present tense yet we do not have that 'glory' he has given us YET? Although it is spoken as if he has already given it to us - it is a promise to us not yet realized because we will not manifest that glory until the resurrection.

In the same manner the glory Jesus had with the Father before the world existed was a glory PROMISED to him before the world existed..........You do not understand that when God promises something it's as good as done ....the promise is spoken of as already been given, i.e. in the present tense but it hasn't yet come to fruition ....It's like this promise to Abraham: it's spoken of in the present tense "No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations." but he didn't even have any children yet --- the fulfillment of the promise came later. ---- Jesus was promised glory before the world existed in God's plan and foreknowledge - a glory he was to receive through his death, resurrection and ascension.

Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. [Luke 24:26,27] Jesus went through the scripture interpreting them to the two disciples that the things concerning himself --- how Christ must suffer these things and enter into his glory.

It doesn't matter what the verse originally meant. What matters is the meaning given it in the NT passage. Jesus did indeed become lower than the angels. And He has been lifted back up to above the angels (where He started). Jesus' glory is the glory that the Father never gave up; they are equal.

Yes, it does matter what the verse originally meant - what it meant in the culture and what it meant to the people in that day and age. Yes, Jesus, being a human being, was made a little lower than the angels just as all humanity was made a little lower than the angels. He did ascend to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God but NOT to where he started because he started, he began, his beginning was in the womb of Mary.

He was crowned with glory and honor---- when he ascended and exalted to the right hand of God his Father.

 

[Doug Brents]

Not scriptural.

Then prove it. Don't just throw out disclaimers without any back up.

We are one with God the Father and with Jesus RIGHT NOW-----I was talking about 17:22 - the glory Jesus has given us. "The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one"...... Do you see how that is given in the present tense yet we do not have that 'glory' he has given us YET? Although it is spoken as if he has already given it to us - it is a promise to us not yet realized because we will not manifest that glory until the resurrection.

In Num 33:53, did the nation of Israel already have possession of the Land? No. They were still wandering in the wilderness, in the middle of their 40 years of punishment. But God said He had already given the land to them: "and you shall take possession of the land and live in it, for I have given the land to you to possess it"
Yes, He has already given us His glory, but we do not possess it yet, because we are still living in this fallen world.

In the same manner the glory Jesus had with the Father before the world existed was a glory PROMISED to him before the world existed..........

Nope, He already possessed it, and gave it up willingly when He emptied Himself.

You do not understand that when God promises something it's as good as done ....the promise is spoken of as already been given, i.e. in the present tense but it hasn't yet come to fruition ....It's like this promise to Abraham: it's spoken of in the present tense "No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations." but he didn't even have any children yet --- the fulfillment of the promise came later. ---- Jesus was promised glory before the world existed in God's plan and foreknowledge - a glory he was to receive through his death, resurrection and ascension.

Wrong again. Read John 17:5 again. "And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed." He is not asking for some FUTURE glory, but His past glory to be returned.

Yes, it does matter what the verse originally meant - what it meant in the culture and what it meant to the people in that day and age. Yes, Jesus, being a human being, was made a little lower than the angels just as all humanity was made a little lower than the angels. He did ascend to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God but NOT to where he started because he started, he began, his beginning was in the womb of Mary.

No grace, that is NOT where He began. As John 17:5 tells us, He was with the Father in Heaven, with all the glory of the Father, before the Creation of the world. His physical body began in Mary's womb, but His spirit, who He is, did not begin there; it ALWAYS existed.

He was crowned with glory and honor---- when he ascended and exalted to the right hand of God his Father.

That is indeed when He received His glory and honor returned to Him.

 

[amazing grace]

Then prove it. Don't just throw out disclaimers without any back up.

Yahweh emptied himself of his glory and descended from heaven into the womb of Mary?

He did indeed. Yahweh, aka. LORD Jesus left Heaven after emptying Himself, and was born from the womb of the virgin Mary.

The book of the genealogy (genesis-origin, source) of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham........Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.... [Matthew 1:1, 20b]
Jesus Christ is from the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David..... And behold you will conceive in your womb and bear a son and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.....The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you, therefore (for this reason) the child to be born will be called holy----the Son of God. [Luke 1:31,32,35] God's creative power at work just as in Genesis where the Spirit of God hovered over the face of the earth and through the power of God creation came into existence.

In Num 33:53, did the nation of Israel already have possession of the Land? No. They were still wandering in the wilderness, in the middle of their 40 years of punishment. But God said He had already given the land to them: "and you shall take possession of the land and live in it, for I have given the land to you to possess it" Yes, He has already given us His glory, but we do not possess it yet, because we are still living in this fallen world.

Nope, He already possessed it, and gave it up willingly when He emptied Himself.

Wrong again. Read John 17:5 again. "And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed." He is not asking for some FUTURE glory, but His past glory to be returned.

No grace, that is NOT where He began. As John 17:5 tells us, He was with the Father in Heaven, with all the glory of the Father, before the Creation of the world. His physical body began in Mary's womb, but His spirit, who He is, did not begin there; it ALWAYS existed.

That is indeed when He received His glory and honor returned to Him.

Yep, they may not have received it right then but you can rest assured that they will receive the land God promised them --- just as Jesus received the glory promised him and we will receive the glory Jesus gave to us in John 17:22.

Scripture says he started, he began, his beginning was in the womb of Mary. Do you claim that Jesus is God and that he never ceased being God? If so, why not just honestly and plainly say - 'God (the Son) was with God (the Father) in heaven, with their own glory before the creation of the world'? Because you hear how it sounds when you say it like that --- we have God with God. With means alongside so we have God alongside God and that makes two gods. That is how y'all maneuver words around to make it seem you are monotheistic. You aren't.

You have it backward: But is it not the spiritual that is first but the natural and then the spiritual. [1 Cor. 15:46]

 

[Doug Brents]

The book of the genealogy (genesis-origin, source) of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham........Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.... [Matthew 1:1, 20b]
Jesus Christ is from the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David..... And behold you will conceive in your womb and bear a son and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.....The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you, therefore (for this reason) the child to be born will be called holy----the Son of God. [Luke 1:31,32,35] God's creative power at work just as in Genesis where the Spirit of God hovered over the face of the earth and through the power of God creation came into existence.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Yep, they may not have received it right then but you can rest assured that they will receive the land God promised them --- just as Jesus received the glory promised him and we will receive the glory Jesus gave to us in John 17:22.

We will indeed. But Jesus already had His glory before the World was created. He didn't receive it the first time after He was crucified.

Scripture says he started, he began, his beginning was in the womb of Mary.

That was how His life as a human began. But that was not His origin. He has no origin; He, like the Father, has always existed.

Do you claim that Jesus is God and that he never ceased being God? If so, why not just honestly and plainly say - 'God (the Son) was with God (the Father) in heaven, with their own glory before the creation of the world'? Because you hear how it sounds when you say it like that --- we have God with God. With means alongside so we have God alongside God and that makes two gods. That is how y'all maneuver words around to make it seem you are monotheistic. You aren't.

You have a body, yes? Is your body, you?
You have a soul, yes? Is your soul, you?
You have a spirit, yes? Is your spirit, you?
Are you three? Not at all. You are only one, YOU, but you have three parts that are equally you, and if you separate any of them from you, you do not cease to be you, nor do they cease to be you; yet you are still not more than one.

It is the same with God. He has three parts, but He is still only one God.

You have it backward: But is it not the spiritual that is first but the natural and then the spiritual. [1 Cor. 15:46]

Within Creation, that is true: God created our body and then breathed our spirit within that body (Gen 2:7). But God is spirit, and He preexisted Creation. Are you saying that God had a physical body before Creation? Or are you saying God was a physical being that ascended to being God?

 

[amazing grace]

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

you said:

He did indeed. Yahweh, aka. LORD Jesus left Heaven after emptying Himself, and was born from the womb of the virgin Mary.

I said:

Not scriptural.

You said:

Then prove it. Don't just throw out disclaimers without any back up.

I did with the birth records from Matthew 1:1, 18 and Luke 1:31,32, 35. I even reposted the above before I gave you the birth records and You have no idea what I was saying???? No wonder you can't understand scripture.

We will indeed. But Jesus already had His glory before the World was created. He didn't receive it the first time after He was crucified.

The glory I had with you before the world existed ---- a promise - it is the glory that Jesus WOULD receive after his death, resurrection and ascension - when he was crowned with glory and honor, when he was exalted to the right hand of God, spoken as if he already had it because it was a sure thing that he would receive it.

Because Jesus said: And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

That was how His life as a human began. But that was not His origin. He has no origin; He, like the Father, has always existed.

That is how his life began.....His origin.....yes, he had an origin. I refer you again to Matthew 1:1, 18 and Luke 1:31,32, 35.

You have a body, yes? Is your body, you?
You have a soul, yes? Is your soul, you?
You have a spirit, yes? Is your spirit, you?
Are you three? Not at all. You are only one, YOU, but you have three parts that are equally you, and if you separate any of them from you, you do not cease to be you, nor do they cease to be you; yet you are still not more than one.

It is the same with God. He has three parts, but He is still only one God.

Also my body, soul, and spirit cannot operate separately. Let me see your soul part stay at home while your body part goes to the store. There you go again God has three parts......that sounds like partialism to me: Partialism is a Trinitarian heresy that teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each parts of God, dividing the divine essence into three parts.

Those 'parts', spirit and soul and body, make up my whole being, I am not me without my body. I am not me without my soul, my breath life. I am not me without my spirit, my emotional being --- so, yes, I would cease to be me without even one 'part' of me.

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. A complete person consist of a spirit, soul, and body.

Within Creation, that is true: God created our body and then breathed our spirit within that body (Gen 2:7). But God is spirit, and He preexisted Creation. Are you saying that God had a physical body before Creation? Or are you saying God was a physical being that ascended to being God?

Yes, God is Spirit, an immaterial being. I am talking about Jesus and YOU KNOW I AM although you refer to Jesus as God so I see your confusion. Jesus whom you say was a spirit first then became natural (human) and that is not what scripture says.

JESUS DID NOT START OUT AT GOD AND DID NOT END UP BEING GOD!!!!

I would really like you to directly respond to this:
Do you claim that Jesus is God and that he never ceased being God? If so, why not just honestly and plainly say - 'God (the Son) was with God (the Father) in heaven, with their own glory before the creation of the world'? Because you hear how it sounds when you say it like that --- we have God with God. With means alongside so we have God alongside God and that makes two gods. That is how y'all maneuver words around to make it seem you are monotheistic. You aren't.

 

[Doug Brents]

I did with the birth records from Matthew 1:1, 18 and Luke 1:31,32, 35. I even reposted the above before I gave you the birth records and You have no idea what I was saying???? No wonder you can't understand scripture.

The birth record of Jesus in Matt 1 proves NOTHING. It demonstrates that He had a physical birth as a human being. But it does not account for His existence BEFORE His birth, which is demonstrated through many other verses like John 1:1 & 14, and John 17:5. As I have noted for others who seem to think as you do, you must account for every passage that relates to a subject in your doctrine. If you build your doctrine off of only the passages that you like while ignoring other passages, then you run the risk of having your doctrine being completely FALSE!

The glory I had with you before the world existed ---- a promise - it is the glory that Jesus WOULD receive after his death, resurrection and ascension - when he was crowned with glory and honor, when he was exalted to the right hand of God, spoken as if he already had it because it was a sure thing that he would receive it.

No, this is not just a promise of what He would receive. It is a recollection of what He once had (see the bolded above).

That is how his life began.....His origin.....yes, he had an origin. I refer you again to Matthew 1:1, 18 and Luke 1:31,32, 35.

Sure His physical body had an origin. But He, the Spirit that He is, did not have an origin. Jesus has ALWAYS been; He is the I AM! He was with the Father before Creation.

Also my body, soul, and spirit cannot operate separately. Let me see your soul part stay at home while your body part goes to the store. There you go again God has three parts......that sounds like partialism to me: Partialism is a Trinitarian heresy that teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each parts of God, dividing the divine essence into three parts.

Of course you cannot separate into your constituent parts. But God can. He is not restricted by the limitations of the flesh.

Those 'parts', spirit and soul and body, make up my whole being, I am not me without my body.

So you won't still be you when your soul gets to Heaven without your body? Hmm?

I am not me without my soul, my breath life. I am not me without my spirit, my emotional being --- so, yes, I would cease to be me without even one 'part' of me.

This shows how very little you know about God.

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. A complete person consist of a spirit, soul, and body.

Yes, God is Spirit, an immaterial being. I am talking about Jesus and YOU KNOW I AM although you refer to Jesus as God so I see your confusion. Jesus whom you say was a spirit first then became natural (human) and that is not what scripture says.

Again, you demonstrate your lack of knowledge of God, His Word, and faith in Him.

JESUS DID NOT START OUT AT GOD AND DID NOT END UP BEING GOD!!!!

Shouting does not make it true.

I would really like you to directly respond to this:
Do you claim that Jesus is God and that he never ceased being God?

Yes.

If so, why not just honestly and plainly say - 'God (the Son) was with God (the Father) in heaven, with their own glory before the creation of the world'?

Exactly.

Because you hear how it sounds when you say it like that --- we have God with God. With means alongside so we have God alongside God and that makes two gods. That is how y'all maneuver words around to make it seem you are monotheistic. You aren't.

Is the spirit of grace with grace?
Is the soul of grace with grace?
Then you have grace with grace, grace alongside grace, that makes two graces.
Do you see how stupid your argument is?

 

[Peterlag]

There's absolutely no reason to have 3 God's or a man-God or to have a God agent in heaven who was sent down to the Earth and then went back up with the other God along with having another spirit God. None of this makes any sense which is why we have Scripture like Isaiah 44:24 that says He stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that He spreadeth abroad the earth all by Himself.

And then there's...

Isaiah 44:6,8
I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 45:21-22
there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
for I am God, and there is none else.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me:

 

[amazing grace]

The birth record of Jesus in Matt 1 proves NOTHING. It demonstrates that He had a physical birth as a human being. But it does not account for His existence BEFORE His birth, which is demonstrated through many other verses like John 1:1 & 14, and John 17:5. As I have noted for others who seem to think as you do, you must account for every passage that relates to a subject in your doctrine. If you build your doctrine off of only the passages that you like while ignoring other passages, then you run the risk of having your doctrine being completely FALSE!

Well, it proves that a spirit didn't descend into Mary's womb which is what you claimed.
He did not literally preexisted his birth. He preexisted in the purpose, plans and forknowledge of God.
I do not build a doctrine upon a few scriptures but the whole of scripture must be in harmony throughout.
I do not ignore John 1:1, 14 and John 17:5 - I just don't understand them in the manner you do because I do not believe that God that God is Triune nor that God became a man therefore, I do not read that INTO the meaning of scripture.
If I were you I would check my own doctrine before accusing someone else's of being false.

No, this is not just a promise of what He would receive. It is a recollection of what He once had (see the bolded above).

Sorry, Jesus said he had to suffer in order to ENTER into his glory.

Sure His physical body had an origin. But He, the Spirit that He is, did not have an origin. Jesus has ALWAYS been; He is the I AM! He was with the Father before Creation.

I AM - I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE - is what Yahweh said of himself. Yahweh is the Father, Jesus is NOT.

Of course you cannot separate into your constituent parts. But God can. He is not restricted by the limitations of the flesh.

Then why use that analogy and say it is the same with God?

You have a body, yes? Is your body, you?
You have a soul, yes? Is your soul, you?
You have a spirit, yes? Is your spirit, you?
Are you three? Not at all. You are only one, YOU, but you have three parts that are equally you, and if you separate any of them from you, you do not cease to be you, nor do they cease to be you; yet you are still not more than one.

It is the same with God. He has three parts, but He is still only one God.

So you won't still be you when your soul gets to Heaven without your body? Hmm?

You do know what a soul is right? Wouldn't that be your breath life? Isn't that how Adam became a living soul, a living person, when God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils? I quit breathing, I am dead, I am buried and I will sleep the sleep of death (Ps. 13:3) until I am resurrected.

This shows how very little you know about God.

Again, you demonstrate your lack of knowledge of God, His Word, and faith in Him.
Shouting does not make it true.

What does my being composed of a spirit and soul and body have to do with knowing God?

It was for emphasis.

Yes.

Exactly.

Is the spirit of grace with grace?
Is the soul of grace with grace?
Then you have grace with grace, grace alongside grace, that makes two graces.
Do you see how stupid your argument is?

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. A complete person is made up of spirit, soul, and body. These are not separate and distinct persons as the Trinitarian God is composed of.

 

[JesusFan]

Well, it proves that a spirit didn't descend into Mary's womb which is what you claimed.
He did not literally preexisted his birth. He preexisted in the purpose, plans and forknowledge of God.
I do not build a doctrine upon a few scriptures but the whole of scripture must be in harmony throughout.
I do not ignore John 1:1, 14 and John 17:5 - I just don't understand them in the manner you do because I do not believe that God that God is Triune nor that God became a man therefore, I do not read that INTO the meaning of scripture.
If I were you I would check my own doctrine before accusing someone else's of being false.

Sorry, Jesus said he had to suffer in order to ENTER into his glory.

I AM - I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE - is what Yahweh said of himself. Yahweh is the Father, Jesus is NOT.

Then why use that analogy and say it is the same with God?


You do know what a soul is right? Wouldn't that be your breath life? Isn't that how Adam became a living soul, a living person, when God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils? I quit breathing, I am dead, I am buried and I will sleep the sleep of death (Ps. 13:3) until I am resurrected.

What does my being composed of a spirit and soul and body have to do with knowing God?

It was for emphasis.

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. A complete person is made up of spirit, soul, and body. These are not separate and distinct persons as the Trinitarian God is composed of.

Jesus stated he came down from heaven, preexisted with God, shared in glory of God , and became human flesh and dwelt among us