The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[civic]

He is also the Creator who existed before all created things as Scripture declares making Him once again equal with God since He is the Creator God.

The Son is before creation. Both Son and Father were together sharing the same Glory as God together with one another as per John 17:1-5 and John 17:24. This parallels John 1:1, Colossians 1:15-17, Hebrews 1:8-10, 1 Corinthians 8:6 and several other passages in scripture declaring His active role in Creation with the Father.


Hebrews 1:8-12.

But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.

hope this helps !!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, you will be taking your idolatry up with God. Guaranteed. Scripture says so. Prepare to be in the hot seat soon. Not a place you want to be. Quite foolish that you would dive headlong, willingly, into the hands of God who hates your unrepentant sin.

Deuteronomy 29
18Make sure there is no man or woman, clan or tribe among you today whose heart turns away from the LORD our God to go and worship the gods of those nations. Make sure there is no root among you that bears such poisonous and bitter fruit,
19because when such a person hears the words of this oath, he invokes a blessing on himself, saying, ‘I will have peace, even though I walk in the stubbornness of my own heart.’

This will bring disaster on the watered land as well as the dry. 20The LORD will never be willing to forgive him. Instead, His anger and jealousy will burn against that man, and every curse written in this book will fall upon him. The LORD will blot out his name from under heaven

Soon? You planning something yourself. I can walk away and let God be God. God between us.

 

[Runningman]

Soon? You planning something yourself. I can walk away and let God be God. God between us.

I do advise you to walk away from idolatry. So far it seems you have no plan for that.

 

[Runningman]

He is also the Creator who existed before all created things as Scripture declares making Him once again equal with God since He is the Creator God.

The Son is before creation. Both Son and Father were together sharing the same Glory as God together with one another as per John 17:1-5 and John 17:24. This parallels John 1:1, Colossians 1:15-17, Hebrews 1:8-10, 1 Corinthians 8:6 and several other passages in scripture declaring His active role in Creation with the Father.


Hebrews 1:8-12.

But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.

hope this helps !!!

Have you ever read Psalm 45 before? That chapter says that the one they are talking about is a human king, most likely Solomon according to scholars. Solomon is God in your religion?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I do advise you to walk away from idolatry. So far it seems you have no plan for that.

Jesus Christ is the love of my life. You're telling me to walk away from my Master. No chance.

 

[civic]

Have you ever read Psalm 45 before? That chapter says that the one they are talking about is a human king, most likely Solomon according to scholars. Solomon is God in your religion?

Have you ever read the passages I quoted ?

Evidently not since you fled from them like the plague

 

[Runningman]

Jesus Christ is the love of my life. You're telling me to walk away from my Master. No chance.

You can obey Jesus without making him into an idol.

 

[Runningman]

Have you ever read the passages I quoted ?

Evidently not since you fled from them like the plague

Yes, you refuted yourself in quoting Scripture. The context doesn't support the conclusion you provided. That's why I am telling you to go back and take another look at Psalm 45 because it's not about Jesus.

 

[civic]

Yes, you refuted yourself in quoting Scripture. The context doesn't support the conclusion you provided. That's why I am telling you to go back and take another look at Psalm 45 because it's not about Jesus.

No they all affirm He is Eternal just like the Father is eternal. Same God, same creation and same eternality.

Next fallacy

 

[praise_yeshua]

You can obey Jesus without making him into an idol.

You want me to treat Jesus like you treat your father.

Not going to do it. The way I treat Jesus is the exactly the way that the Father will treat me.

I will treat them as equals because that is exactly what they are. Jesus gave Himself for me. God dying for me.

You didn't die for me. Even if you could you would just be "dead". It wouldn't be meaningful to the point of redeeming me.

At so many levels you want to be just like Jesus and you're never going to be identical to Jesus. You crave it. You do so many evil things to make others believe you're just like Jesus. To desire to make yourself believe that you're just like Jesus.

If you were actually like Jesus, you wouldn't need Jesus. You don't want Jesus anyways. You see nothing in Jesus that you can't get from someone else. I do. I see Christ dying for me when the Father didn't do it Himself.

Now before you take what I just said and "run with it".....

The Father suffered along with His Son for me. For you to understand this, you must know the teachings of what we reference as the "Holy Trinity".

Your idol is your own imagination. Something you created yourself.

 

[civic]

You want me to treat Jesus like you treat your father.

Not going to do it. The way I treat Jesus is the exactly the way that the Father will treat me.

I will treat them as equals because that is exactly what they are. Jesus gave Himself for me. God dying for me.

You didn't die for me. Even if you could you would just be "dead". It wouldn't be meaningful to the point of redeeming me.

At so many levels you want to be just like Jesus and you're never going to be identical to Jesus. You crave it. You do so many evil things to make others believe you're just like Jesus. To desire to make yourself believe that you're just like Jesus.

If you were actually like Jesus, you wouldn't need Jesus. You don't want Jesus anyways. You see nothing in Jesus that you can't get from someone else. I do. I see Christ dying for me when the Father didn't do it Himself.

Now before you take what I just said and "run with it".....

The Father suffered along with His Son for me. For you to understand this, you must know the teachings of what we reference as the "Holy Trinity".

Your idol is your own imagination. Something you created yourself.

If a person cannot love the Son in the same way they claim to love the Father then they cannot know or love either One. Its nothing but a facade. Jesus made that clear in His teachings as did the Apostles. The the uni's are blind to His commands and the Apostles. As Jesus said seeing they do not see and hearing they do not hear. Its a spiritual blindness to the truth and the very One who is the Truth Himself. No Son equals no Father. Denying the Son is the same as denying the Father. He who has seen the Son has seen the Father. They are One is nature, purpose, being, character etc.... Yet the uni denies it and cannot see it. Its the modern version of Jesus time with the Pharisees.

 

[Runningman]

You want me to treat Jesus like you treat your father.

Not going to do it. The way I treat Jesus is the exactly the way that the Father will treat me.

I will treat them as equals because that is exactly what they are. Jesus gave Himself for me. God dying for me.

You didn't die for me. Even if you could you would just be "dead". It wouldn't be meaningful to the point of redeeming me.

At so many levels you want to be just like Jesus and you're never going to be identical to Jesus. You crave it. You do so many evil things to make others believe you're just like Jesus. To desire to make yourself believe that you're just like Jesus.

If you were actually like Jesus, you wouldn't need Jesus. You don't want Jesus anyways. You see nothing in Jesus that you can't get from someone else. I do. I see Christ dying for me when the Father didn't do it Himself.

Now before you take what I just said and "run with it".....

The Father suffered along with His Son for me. For you to understand this, you must know the teachings of what we reference as the "Holy Trinity".

Your idol is your own imagination. Something you created yourself.

Jesus can still be your Lord and Savior without being your idol. That's what Scripture teaches. All you need to do is follow the Bible and make the Father your exclusive God. That's what I do and I am doing well. I will inherit eternal life, my sins are forgiven, I have an outstanding relationship with God, I get my prayers answered, I've seen miracles happen. You're free to follow your own path if you wish. As for me, I'll just stick with Christianity.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus can still be your Lord and Savior without being your idol. That's what Scripture teaches. All you need to do is follow the Bible and make the Father your exclusive God. That's what I do and I am doing well. I will inherit eternal life, my sins are forgiven, I have an outstanding relationship with God, I get my prayers answered, I've seen miracles happen. You're free to follow your own path if you wish. As for me, I'll just stick with Christianity.

I'm concerned that you are perceiving these miracles as confirmation of your doctrine. However, it does not matter how many miracles you think you encounter, those should not be deemed to confirm your novel doctrines opposing the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. Unique, novel, private doctrines must be presented in a convincing way to a broader theological community to ensure they are not just the result of confirmation bias to your original expectation of a non-divine concept of Christ.

 

[Runningman]

I'm concerned that you are perceiving these miracles as confirmation of your doctrine. However, it does not matter how many miracles you think you encounter, those should not be deemed to confirm your novel doctrines opposing the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. Unique, novel, private doctrines must be presented in a convincing way to a broader theological community to ensure they are not just the result of confirmation bias to your original expectation of a non-divine concept of Christ.

They're confirmation that I am on the right path because I honor God the way the Bible says to.

 

[mikesw]

They're confirmation that I am on the right path because I honor God the way the Bible says to.

so you think scripture endorses your view despite specifically showing the deity of Christ over and over and over again? Really. You are in such a depth of deception that it is sad to see you promote this false doctrine.

Indeed you will find confirmation no matter what failures of your doctrine are exposed. That is what is so sad here.

 

[Alter2Ego]

You know what, mikesw? I'm going to nip this in the bud starting now, because you are running from scriptural correction due to your love affair with Christendom's fairytale.

First of all, the Bible is my authority. We will soon see whether it is yours.

2 Timothy 3:16​

"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,"



Below are several scriptures followed by questions that address each of the scriptures as well as word definitions. Let's see if you're willing to be corrected by scripture starting now.


"No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has revealed him." (John 1:18 -- Anderson's New Testament)

John 1 Anderson's New Testament

QUESTION #1 to mikesw: According to John 1:18, no human eye has ever seen God, except for the eyes of his begotten Son, Jesus Christ. TRUE or FALSE?

1 Timothy 6:13​

Before God, who preserves all things alive, and Christ Jesus, who as a witness made the fine public declaration before Pontius Pilate, I give you orders

1 Timothy 6:14​

to observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Timothy 6:15​

which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords,

1 Timothy 6:16​

the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal might. Amen.


QUESTION #2 to mikesw: According to 1 Timothy 6:16, God alone has immortality and no man has seen or can see him. TRUE or FALSE?



QUESTION #3 to mikesw: People saw Jesus while he was on earth. TRUE or FALSE?


Definition of immortality
"the quality of being able to live or last for ever:

immortality

1. the quality of being able to live or last for ever: 2. the quality of being…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Definition of immortal
": living forever : incapable of dying"

Definition of IMMORTAL

living forever : incapable of dying; continuing forever : everlasting; connected with or relating to immortality… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

QUESTION #4 to mikesw: By definition, an immortal person cannot die. Jesus died. TRUE or FALSE?



Answer those first four questions, and then we shall proceed.

Whew. The response copy of your post removes your stupid efforts to include definitions. You have however advanced from the Unitarian Pocket Dictionary to the MW.com dictionary.

You have just tried to divert from the actual discussion with your little definitions.

No need to follow this silliness

mikesw:

I asked you four direct questions at Post 567, which you are now dodging.

Post in thread 'The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning'

Monday at 9:21 PM

mikesw:

If Jesus were still a god while on earth, humans would not have been able to kill him. What is it about that don't you get? Scripture says he became lower than angels while he was on earth.

Hebrews 2:7​

You made him a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands.

Hebrews 2:8​

All things you subjected under his feet.” By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him.

Hebrews...​

• Alter2Ego

Since you're clearly not interested in being corrected by scripture, you are now on my "Ignore" list where I won't be able to read anything else you post at this website.

 

[Alter2Ego]

You know what, mikesw? I'm going to nip this in the bud starting now, because you are running from scriptural correction due to your love affair with Christendom's fairytale.

No it isn't. You're a "jw". You have an elder you answer to.

Why are you lying like this?

praise_yeshua:

Come back at me with one more insulting comment, such as the above, and you will join mikesw on my "Ignore" list where I won't have to waste my precious time scrolling past the nonsense you're posting. I kid you not.


Troll ! !

 

[mikesw]

mikesw:

I asked you four direct questions at Post 567, which you are now dodging.

Post in thread 'The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning'

Monday at 9:21 PM

mikesw:

If Jesus were still a god while on earth, humans would not have been able to kill him. What is it about that don't you get? Scripture says he became lower than angels while he was on earth.

Hebrews 2:7​

You made him a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands.

Hebrews 2:8​

All things you subjected under his feet.” By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him.

Hebrews...​

• Alter2Ego

Until you answer those four questions, my conversation with you is over.

oh my. You sure are getting pushy in your advocacy of heresy. You try to load the discussion without including the pre-existence of Jesus and the deity passages about Jesus in John 1. And who really cares if you fail to continue sharing your heresy here? You are asking people to play your little game while wishing that half of the Bible not be reviewed. You push questions that do not advocate your view and then get angry when that is pointed out.

QUESTION #1 to mikesw: According to John 1:18, no human eye has ever seen God, except for the eyes of his begotten Son, Jesus Christ
Answering to the text instead of your make-believe question
The text reads: No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

This shows that Jesus is One who has been at the bosom of the Father and seen him and thus is able to make him known. That is pretty clear. It is great to see how the divinity of Christ is confirmed in many ways in one verse.

QUESTION #2 to mikesw: According to 1 Timothy 6:16, God alone has immortality and no man has seen or can see him.
Answering to the actual text:
The text reads: who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
Jesus

THis again shows from John 1:18 that the One who saw God was not mere human. Great point.

QUESTION #3 to mikesw: People saw Jesus while he was on earth.
Duh. THat is why the Word became incarnate. An invisible God could not be seen. Another great point.

QUESTION #4 to mikesw: By definition, an immortal person cannot die. Jesus died.
We do see Christ's Spirit departing from him just before he died. So indeed the body died, unless you want to claim the swoon theory. If you want a more detailed metaphysical explanation of how this occurred, that is beyond me. I can only share what seems probable based on the testimony of scripture.

The questions of alter_ego are intended to have us deny Christ so we can play this little word game with questions that actually affirm the deity of Christ. The simple observation is that if you cannot see the deity of Jesus becoming incarnate as shown especially in John 1:1-18, you are simply blind or worse. But you are not able to defend yourself against the recognition of that blindness.

If you came in with honest questions, we could continue the debate.