civic
Well-known member
It’s amazing that the non Calvinists have to teach them what Calvinist doctrine is lol.
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
Yup, like I'm sure you have no idea what your talking about.
By determining, planning and bringing about the death of His own Son, dis it come from Him?
Yes, all the Cults like Mormons, JWs, Calvinists, etc...
brightfame52
Well-known member
The world of His Own Sheep, thats who He Gave His Life for Jn 10:11
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep
Jn 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
He only Loved His Own Sheep Jn 13:1
Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
Irrelevant The Calvinist screed is God is the ultimate cause of all things.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
God IS the ultimate cause of all things. But God has never tempted anyone.
The difference is like how God cannot lie, but God approved an angel's plan to lie.
Christ died for all
Christ died list
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
You can't deal with it.
He does determine it however.
And what do we mean by ultimate cause of all things?
Don't forget Provisionism
You should know what the term means if you use the term
You cannot have God as the ultimate cause of a thing and then deny it is from him
If he determines it then it is from him
and you have just contradicted scripture once again
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I showed you the difference.
God IS the ultimate cause of all things. But God has never tempted anyone.
The difference is like how God cannot lie, but God approved an angel's plan to lie.
But your theology cannot exempt itself from the charge it is from him contrary to scripture.
One cannot believe your theology and scripture at the same time.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
TibiasDad
Well-known member
So it is a case where I caused the fire, but I never burnt anything…?
There is a difference between causation and allowance. God’s allowing Satan to tempt is not him ultimately causing temptation to happen.
Allowance is not causation.
Causation is direct relationship to the result. Allowance is an indirect relationship to the result.
Causation requires culpability, Allowance may or may not depending on the circumstances.
Causation means necessity; Allowance means possibility.
Doug
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The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Do you deny that God cannot lie? Do you deny that God approved of an angel's plan to lie?
TibiasDad
Well-known member
If the determining, planning and bringing about the death is from him, how can it not be from him?
Doug
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