TibiasDad
Well-known member
Non sequitur argument! Foreknowledge only explains the finished event, it says nothing of the possibility of something different before man acted.
Doug
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
Doug
When did He become aware of your choices Doug?
It's apparently your will that God has to work around. Our omnipotent God.
It is all I need. If one claims compatibilism is illogical all I need is one example and the claim is nullified.
Nope. If you choose differently then what God foreknew was untrue.
There is no "before" with a timeless being.
That's some deep waters
TibiasDad
Well-known member
He is always aware of my choices, but that doesn’t mean he wanted the results or decreed it as necessary.
Would God be omnipotent if couldn’t work around our choices?
You’ve been given a logical example: if God chooses X before man existed, then man has no freedom to do anything other than X. It is the arm tied behind the back: the child can’t throw because the dad tied his arm behind him.
Logically there is. Especially from our perspective. The question is not the result, but rather if God deliberately removed any real potential other than. When I press “post reply” on this response, it will automatically be available for you to read and respond, God knows whether I will post this already, but I could choose to erase it and not post it. If you read this, you will know I did; but because I will doesn’t mean I had to.
Doug
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Only from our perspective.
One cannot prove all things are determined by appealing to a single determined event
brightfame52
Well-known member
Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
In Preaching the Cross of Christ, we cant hold back the offensive Gospel Truth that Salvation is limited to them whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world
God has already written the names of them He has purposed to save in the Lambs Book of Life from the foundation of the world,
Jesus said on one occasion Luke 10:21
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Those are the only ones He was slain, crucified for, so that's an aspect of preaching the Cross.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
In Preaching the Cross of Christ, we cant hold back the offensive Gospel Truth that Salvation is limited to them whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world
God has already written the names of them He has purposed to save in the Lambs Book of Life from the foundation of the world,
Jesus said on one occasion Luke 10:21
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Those are the only ones He was slain, crucified for, so that's an aspect of preaching the Cross.
Not if you believe scripture
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Calvinists must imagine the Holy Spirit is an incompetent source. He just can't seem to communicate the Calvinists doctrine of limited atonement
brightfame52
Well-known member
Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
In Preaching the Cross of Christ, we cant hold back the offensive Gospel Truth that Salvation is limited to them whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world
God has already written the names of them He has purposed to save in the Lambs Book of Life from the foundation of the world,
Jesus said on one occasion Luke 10:21
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Those are the only ones He was slain, crucified for, so that's an aspect of preaching the Cross.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
To the contrary. "Who will have ALL MEN to be saved", yet not all men are saved. That's more like an incompetent Holy Spirit.
Nope because it is clearly stated those who do not believe will not be saved/
In denying the Spirit an incompetent source you claim the Spirit incompetent thus
Supporting the very claim you denied
you posted nothing supporting your doctrine of limited atonement and you addressed nothing
Christ died for all
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Which means your interpretation is wrong! God’s will does not mean that it will necessarily happen!
Doug
civic
Well-known member
Yes they take the crucifixion a one time event that was prophecied and apply it to everyone and everything. It’s the worst hermeneutic of all.
It's not a matter of could He, it's does He. The answer is no.
Your logic does not hold. Man still chooses. Man freely made a choice determines by God.
It's not a matter of what you Had to do as if your forced or coerced. It's a matter of what you will do. What you will choose. You simply don't get it.
There are plenty more than just one example.
A few and a few is not enough to establish all
Who says?
civic
Well-known member
Ever heard of the exception is not the rule ?
Common sense and logic and scripture as well
James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.
Jer. 32:35 They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
Is. 30:1 “Ah, stubborn children,” declares the LORD,
“who carry out a plan, but not mine,
and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit,
that they may add sin to sin;
Gal. 5:7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you.
1Cor. 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
Rom. 11:23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
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