Refuting effectually caused faith

[brightfame52]

You ignored this

2 Corinthians 5:18–20 (ESV) — 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

You failed to realize that reconciliation required you be reconciled to God.

All sinners Christ died for are sinners and unbelievers when they are born, yet they are sanctified by Christs death and reconciled by His death Heb 10:10; Rom 5:10 but they shall be saved by His Life, that is Regeneration and then they become believers.

Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life

For those only He died and reconciled while being unbelievers and enemies, He lives to ensure the Spiritual application of His Death benefits, which is regeneration by the Spirit and faith and final preservation in the Faith

 

[TomL]

All sinners Christ died for are sinners and unbelievers when they are born, yet they are sanctified by Christs death and reconciled by His death Heb 10:10; Rom 5:10 but they shall be saved by His Life, that is Regeneration and then they become believers.

Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life

For those only He died and reconciled while being unbelievers and enemies, He lives to ensure the Spiritual application of His Death benefits, which is regeneration by the Spirit and faith and final preservation in the Faith

sorry unbelievers do not have the spirit nor are they given life by the spirit

John 6:53 (ESV) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

John 3:36 (ESV) — 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

your views are unbiblical

 

[TomL]

Yes many does mean some, as well as the word all does

sorry you have provided no evidence for your claim

Just more theology by assumption

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Sorry, many does not mean some and Not even Calvin would affirm that

And All, world never means the elect alone as your theolgy requires

In what parallel universe does many mean all?

"Johnny, how many apples do you have?"
"I have many apples."
"Oh, so you mean you have all the apples in the whole world?"
"Where did you get your teaching certificate, Mrs. Smith? In a Cracker Jack box?"

The word is πολλῶν and it is NEVER used to mean all.

 

[TomL]

In what parallel universe does many mean all?

"Johnny, how many apples do you have?"
"I have many apples."
"Oh, so you mean you have all the apples in the whole world?"
"Where did you get your teaching certificate, Mrs. Smith? In a Cracker Jack box?"

The word is πολλῶν and it is NEVER used to mean all.

The word many (πολλῶν) is not put definitely for a fixed number, but for a large number; for he contrasts himself with all others. And in this sense it is used in Romans 5:15, where Paul does not speak of any part of men, but embraces the whole human race

John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists Matthew, Mark, and Luke (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 427.

hello

Now do you want to deal with world kosmos

John 12:47–48 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The word many (πολλῶν) is not put definitely for a fixed number, but for a large number; for he contrasts himself with all others. And in this sense it is used in Romans 5:15, where Paul does not speak of any part of men, but embraces the whole human race

Many can mean a large number, but it doesn't mean all. And in this case, where Jesus is saying he will be a ransom for many, many means few.

13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many [LARGE NUMBER] who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few [SMALLER NUMBER] who find it.

 

[TomL]

Many can mean a large number, but it doesn't mean all. And in this case, where Jesus is saying he will be a ransom for many, many means few.

13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many [LARGE NUMBER] who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few [SMALLER NUMBER] who find it.

To start with, you ignored Calvin and the scripture he quoted

Romans 5:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Do you deny all die as a result of Adams sin?

Then I notice you failed to address the meaning of world at

John 12:47–48 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Why?

 

[brightfame52]

sorry unbelievers do not have the spirit nor are they given life by the spirit

John 6:53 (ESV) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

John 3:36 (ESV) — 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

your views are unbiblical

All sinners Christ died for are sinners and unbelievers when they are born, yet they are sanctified by Christs death and reconciled by His death Heb 10:10; Rom 5:10 but they shall be saved by His Life, that is Regeneration and then they become believers.

Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life

For those only He died and reconciled while being unbelievers and enemies, He lives to ensure the Spiritual application of His Death benefits, which is regeneration by the Spirit and faith and final preservation in the Faith

 

[brightfame52]

sorry you have provided no evidence for your claim

Just more theology by assumption

There is evidence for me, I cant help you

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

To start with, you ignored Calvin and the scripture he quoted

Here's a comprehensive list of all the reasons why I care what Calvin said:

1. I don't.

 

[TomL]

Here's a comprehensive list of all the reasons why I care what Calvin said:

1. I don't.

You did not address the scripture he quoted either

nor did you address the one I posted concerning the word world

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-56440

Why?

 

[TomL]

There is evidence for me, I cant help you

You have not produced any which state what you claim.

 

[brightfame52]

You have not produced any which state what you claim.

There is evidence for me, I cant help you. When God gives me Truth, doesnt mean He gives it to you !

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If faith is effectually, irresistibly caused by God then verses would make no sense

Romans 10:17 reveals WHERE FAITH arises from: God's WORD TO YOU. "Irresistability" is nothing but "Calvinist theology" according to their "I" paradigm, so unimportant. The BIBLE and "Man's theology" are often at odds with each other. I recommend that the BIBLE be understood as the truth, and where no information is given, you don't try to Manufacture any.

 

[TomL]

Romans 10:17 reveals WHERE FAITH arises from: God's WORD TO YOU. "Irresistability" is nothing but "Calvinist theology" according to their "I" paradigm, so unimportant. The BIBLE and "Man's theology" are often at odds with each other. I recommend that the BIBLE be understood as the truth, and where no information is given, you don't try to Manufacture any.

You need to address that to the calvinists

 

[Bob Carabbio]

You need to address that to the calvinists

I don't have to BOTHER with "Calvinists" at all. They believe in Salvation by FAITH, so in that respect they're O.K. the rest of their "theology" isn't important.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 10:17 reveals WHERE FAITH arises from: God's WORD TO YOU. "Irresistability" is nothing but "Calvinist theology" according to their "I" paradigm, so unimportant. The BIBLE and "Man's theology" are often at odds with each other. I recommend that the BIBLE be understood as the truth, and where no information is given, you don't try to Manufacture any.

It actually says " Faith comes by Hearing " Rpm 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Yet one must be of God to hear the word of God Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It actually says " Faith comes by Hearing " Rpm 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Yet one must be of God to hear the word of God Jn 8:47

So what you're CLAIMING is that CONVICTION OF SIN, and of Judgement ISN'T GOD'S WORD, since it's coming to a spiritually LOST person???

Chuckle!! something tells me that "Calvinist Regeneration" will show up here shortly as a "Work-around" for "Total depravity"!!

 

[TomL]

I don't have to BOTHER with "Calvinists" at all. They believe in Salvation by FAITH, so in that respect they're O.K. the rest of their "theology" isn't important.

so why do you bother posting to me a non calvinist

 

[Bob Carabbio]

so why do you bother posting to me a non calvinist

You brought them up. Why did you do that??