Refuting effectually caused faith

[brightfame52]

unbelievers are not regenerated and do not have the fruit of the Spirit

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-56120

Mindlessly repeating yourself and ignoring rebuttal does not change that

When a sinner is regenerated by the Spirit, it brings the fruit of the Spirit. It comes with the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Then we believe/obey through the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

 

[TomL]

When a sinner is regenerated by the Spirit, it brings the fruit of the Spirit. It comes with the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Then we believe/obey through the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

only justified believers are regenerated

Titus 3:5–7 (ESV) — 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

only believers have the spirit poured out on them

Gal. 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Gal. 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—

Gal. 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

 

[brightfame52]

only justified believers are regenerated

Titus 3:5–7 (ESV) — 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

only believers have the spirit poured out on them

Gal. 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Gal. 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—

Gal. 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Justified, sanctified unbelievers are regenerated so they can become believers, they are caused to believe, they have no choice but to believe.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Wouldn't that all depend on who you have to be accountable to for having such?

Nobody. Problem solved.

 

[Rockson]

Nobody. Problem solved.

Nobody cares you have right theology about anything Bob? I think might might give that some more thought,

Jm 3:1, Rev 22:18

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Nobody cares you have right theology about anything Bob? I think might might give that some more thought,

Jm 3:1, Rev 22:18

No "HUMAN" cares. Everybody has their OWN "Theology", and couldn't really give a rosy rodent's posterior about anybody's but their own.

There's ONLY ONE who convinces anybody about anything, and HE (not the "Bible Colleges") leads into all truth - if anybody bothers to ask Him - single-mindedly.

 

[TomL]

Justified, sanctified unbelievers are regenerated so they can become believers, they are caused to believe, they have no choice but to believe.

You ignored rebuttal

only justified believers are regenerated

Titus 3:5–7 (ESV) — 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

only believers have the spirit poured out on them

Gal. 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Gal. 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—

Gal. 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored rebuttal

only justified believers are regenerated

Titus 3:5–7 (ESV) — 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

only believers have the spirit poured out on them

Gal. 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Gal. 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—

Gal. 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Justified, sanctified unbelievers are regenerated so they can become believers, they are caused to believe, they have no choice but to believe.

 

[TomL]

Justified, sanctified unbelievers are regenerated so they can become believers, they are caused to believe, they have no choice but to believe.

You addressed nothing simply repeating your error

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-56189

 

[brightfame52]

You addressed nothing simply repeating your error

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-56189

Its addressed by what I am stating, justified, sanctified, even reconciled unbelievers by Jesus death, are given spiritual life, or regeneration and then they believe by the Spirit.

 

[TomL]

Its addressed by what I am stating, justified, sanctified, even reconciled unbelievers by Jesus death, are given spiritual life, or regeneration and then they believe by the Spirit.

sorry you never showed it is unbelievers who are spoken of. You just assume it contrary to the text

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-56189

 

[brightfame52]

sorry you never showed it is unbelievers who are spoken of. You just assume it contrary to the text

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-56189

All sinners Christ died for are sinners and unbelievers when they are born, yet they are sanctified by Christs death and reconciled by His death Heb 10:10; Rom 5:10 but they shall be saved by His Life, that is Regeneration and then they become believers.

 

[TomL]

All sinners Christ died for are sinners and unbelievers when they are born, yet they are sanctified by Christs death and reconciled by His death Heb 10:10; Rom 5:10 but they shall be saved by His Life, that is Regeneration and then they become believers.

Sorry unbelievers are not sanctified and you have not produced a verse to support that claim

and Christ died for all


1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Exported from Logos Bible Software, 8:39 AM February 13, 2024.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry unbelievers are not sanctified and you have not produced a verse to support that claim

and Christ died for all


1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Exported from Logos Bible Software, 8:39 AM February 13, 2024.

All sinners Christ died for are sinners and unbelievers when they are born, yet they are sanctified by Christs death and reconciled by His death Heb 10:10; Rom 5:10 but they shall be saved by His Life, that is Regeneration and then they become believers.

Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life

For those only He died and reconciled while being unbelievers and enemies, He lives to ensure the Spiritual application of His Death benefits, which is regeneration by the Spirit and faith and final preservation in the Faith

 

[TomL]

All sinners Christ died for are sinners and unbelievers when they are born, yet they are sanctified by Christs death and reconciled by His death Heb 10:10; Rom 5:10 but they shall be saved by His Life, that is Regeneration and then they become believers.

Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life

For those only He died and reconciled while being unbelievers and enemies, He lives to ensure the Spiritual application of His Death benefits, which is regeneration by the Spirit and faith and final preservation in the Faith

You still ignore that Christ died for all

and

2 Corinthians 5:18–20 (ESV) — 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

You failed to realize that reconciliation required you be reconciled to God.

 

[brightfame52]

You still ignore that Christ died for all

and

2 Corinthians 5:18–20 (ESV) — 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

You failed to realize that reconciliation required you be reconciled to God.

All sinners Christ died for are sinners and unbelievers when they are born, yet they are sanctified by Christs death and reconciled by His death Heb 10:10; Rom 5:10 but they shall be saved by His Life, that is Regeneration and then they become believers.

Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life

For those only He died and reconciled while being unbelievers and enemies, He lives to ensure the Spiritual application of His Death benefits, which is regeneration by the Spirit and faith and final preservation in the Faith

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

You still ignore that Christ died for all

As usual, all only means all when it supports your soteriology.

Matthew 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

 

[TomL]

As usual, all only means all when it supports your soteriology.

Matthew 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

Sorry, many does not mean some and Not even Calvin would affirm that

And All, world never means the elect alone as your theolgy requires

 

[TomL]

All sinners Christ died for are sinners and unbelievers when they are born, yet they are sanctified by Christs death and reconciled by His death Heb 10:10; Rom 5:10 but they shall be saved by His Life, that is Regeneration and then they become believers.

Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life

For those only He died and reconciled while being unbelievers and enemies, He lives to ensure the Spiritual application of His Death benefits, which is regeneration by the Spirit and faith and final preservation in the Faith

You ignored this

2 Corinthians 5:18–20 (ESV) — 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

You failed to realize that reconciliation required you be reconciled to God.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, many does not mean some and Not even Calvin would affirm that

And All, world never means the elect alone as your theolgy requires

Yes many does mean some, as well as the word all does