less you forget you addressed me
Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
brightfame52
Well-known member
It actually says " Faith comes by Hearing " Rpm 10:17
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Yet one must be of God to hear the word of God Jn 8:47
Nothing there about having had to be unconditionally selected to be of God
John 8:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
The Jews did not hear what Christ stated because they were not of God and did not hear God.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
SO how did Old Testament folks, NONE OF WHOM were Born again, hear God's Word to them???
brightfame52
Well-known member
It actually says " Faith comes by Hearing " Rpm 10:17
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Yet one must be of God to hear the word of God Jn 8:47
He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
More word games. What's "of God" in your paradigm.
brightfame52
Well-known member
To be born of God. The word of is the prep ek meaning out from God, its the same prep John used earlier describing who believes in Jesus, those who had been born of God Jn 1:13
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of ek God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@TomL
You ignoring the fact that they do receive the fruit of the Spirit when they are regenerated or what is also called the sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
If not for that, they would remain unbelievers.
You ignoring the fact that they do receive the fruit of the Spirit when they are regenerated or what is also called the sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
If not for that, they would remain unbelievers.
God does not regenerate give life to unbelievers and they do not have the spirit
John 6:53 (ESV) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
showing one must trust in the life and death of Christ for life
and
John 14:16–17 (ESV) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
world here refers to mankind in opposition to God - i.e, unbelievers
brightfame52
Well-known member
You ignoring the fact that they do receive the fruit of the Spirit when they are regenerated or what is also called the sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
If not for that, they would remain unbelievers.
Sorry that is for believers not unbelievers
you ignored the fact one must come to Christ to receive life (salvation)
John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
God determined to save gentiles as he did Jews through the spirit and belief in the truth
Nothing there states he effectually causes them to believe or that he infuses faith in them
The verse does not demonstrate your theology
brightfame52
Well-known member
You ignoring the fact that they do receive the fruit of the Spirit when they are regenerated or what is also called the sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
If not for that, they would remain unbelievers.
you ignored this
you ignored the fact one must come to Christ to receive life (regeneration-salvation)
John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
God determined to save gentiles as he did Jews through the spirit and belief in the truth
Nothing there states he effectually causes them to believe or that he infuses faith in them
The verse does not demonstrate your theology
brightfame52
Well-known member
You ignoring the fact that they do receive the fruit of the Spirit when they are regenerated or what is also called the sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
If not for that, they would remain unbelievers.
Sorry you ignore the fact unbelievers do not receive the spirit nor are they regenerated (given life)
one must come to Christ to receive life (regeneration-salvation)
John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
God determined to save gentiles as he did Jews through the spirit and belief in the truth
Nothing there states he effectually causes them to believe or that he infuses faith in them
The verse does not demonstrate your theology
civic
Well-known member
nope none of that happens before faith in Christ.
civic
Well-known member
brightfame52
Well-known member
A Person cant come to Christ unless theyre regenerated and drawn Jn 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Drawing is Gods Power. The word draw means:
- metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel
That inward power is Spirit of God leading to Christ Rom 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Man receives Faith in Christ when they're saved in regeneration, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit
