civic
Well-known member
the bible never even once teaches such a thing or alluded to that idea. it was made up by the reformers not the authors of the Bible.
Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, when a person is regenerated by the Spirit they received the fruits of the Spirit Duh
civic
Well-known member
the fruit of the Spirit happens after salvation.
does a fruit tree produce fruit immediately or does it take time ?
the answer to this question will be very telling since Jesus used agriculture in His teachings numerous times to convey biblical and spiritual truth.
I live in the agriculture capital of the entire world, I live ag, sleep ag, eat ag and grow ag- over 50 types of different fruit trees, 20 types of berries/grapes. I know all about fruit and how it's grown, fed, nourished, soil types etc........ I can relate on a personal level with what it takes to produce fruit, have fruitful trees, pruning them, cutting down those that do not produce and using them a firewood etc....
you can fool yourself but you cannot fool me when it comes to the above and scripture. When you can experience firsthand the life of a farmer, produce fruitful trees, care for them year after year then the Bible with its agriculture illustrations/teaching comes alive because you know firsthand what is involved in the process.
Its no theory to me its a reality in my daily life. For you its just pages in a book with not practical application as you stated several times yesterday. the Bible is impersonal to you and not to be shared with anyone else. You said your testimony is meaningless and not necessary. You said you will not share anything personal with anyone. the Bible is nothing but theory, and a book like any other book. You refuse to apply 1 Peter 3:15 as you were challenged yesterday to give an account to anyone who asks ( a defense ) of the hope you have. But you refuse. That is very telling and the opposite of what Jesus and there Apostles taught believers to do.
hope this helps !!!
Last edited:
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, when a person is regenerated by the Spirit they received the fruits of the Spirit Duhthe fruit of the Spirit happens after salvation.
does a fruit tree produce fruit immediately or does it take time ?
the answer to this question will be very telling since Jesus used agriculture in His teachings numerous times to convey biblical and spiritual truth.
I live in the agriculture capital of the entire world, I live ag, sleep ag, eat ag and grow ag- over 50 types of different fruit trees, 20 types of berries/grapes. I know all about fruit and how it's grown, fed, nourished, soil types etc........ I can relate on a personal level with what it takes to produce fruit, have fruitful trees, pruning them, cutting down those that do not produce and using them a firewood etc....
you can fool yourself but you cannot fool me when it comes to the above and scripture. When you can experience firsthand the life of a farmer, produce fruitful trees, care for them year after year then the Bible with its agriculture illustrations/teaching comes alive because you know firsthand what is involved in the process.
Its no theory to me its a reality in my daily life. For you its just pages in a book with not practical application as you stated several times yesterday. the Bible is impersonal to you and not to be shared with anyone else. You said your testimony is meaningless and not necessary. You said you will not share anything personal with anyone. the Bible is nothing but theory, and a book like any other book. You refuse to apply 1 Peter 3:15 as you were challenged yesterday to give an account to anyone who asks ( a defense ) of the hope you have. But you refuse. That is very telling and the opposite of what Jesus and there Apostles taught believers to do.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
you do not understand the new birth and the fruit of the spirit- they are just words in a book. what you do understand is hyper calvinism which in not taught in scripture- its the doctrines and philosophy of depraved man.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 see when the Spirit regenerates or Sanctifies its unto the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13
3 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: The word belief here is the noun Faith
sorry faith precedes salvation by regeneration
John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:34–36 (KJV 1900) — 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Romans 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Acts 16:31–32 (KJV 1900) — 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Man receives Faith in Christ when they're saved in regeneration, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit
you just ignored this
sorry faith precedes salvation by regeneration
John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:34–36 (KJV 1900) — 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Romans 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Acts 16:31–32 (KJV 1900) — 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Man receives Faith in Christ when they're saved in regeneration, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit. None of those scriptures say otherwise
civic
Well-known member
the person does not understand fruit and what it takes to produce fruit.
or how to address rebuttal for that matter
brightfame52
Well-known member
A Person receives Faith when they are regenerated by the Spirit, for Faith is the fruit of the Spirit. The Spirit does cause Faith, its His Power and Fruit, not mans
brightfame52
Well-known member
A Person receives Faith when they are regenerated by the Spirit, for Faith is the fruit of the Spirit. The Spirit does cause Faith, its His Power and Fruit, not mans
Ezk 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Caused to walk by Faith
When was that fulfilled
Who receives the Spirit
Gal. 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Gal. 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Gal. 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its blessings of the New Covenant, fulfilled at the shedding of Christs Blood Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Based on that, God works also in His People Heb 13:20-21
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Faith increases. We are definitely are gifted certain gifts relative to faith.
You do realize that you're appeal to faith that has varying forms of application. Some were gifted faith to perform miracles. Some were gifted faith to endless seek God in prayer. These gifts vary and all relative to how we fit together in the "Body of Christ".
Which pretty much destroys how YOU ARE trying to apply the gift of faith relative to "Spiritual knowledge."
It really is nonsensical the way you appeal these "types" of faith.
You did not address the issue. Who receives the Spirit
Who receives the Spirit
Gal. 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Gal. 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Gal. 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
