Refuting effectually caused faith

[civic]

Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:

Conflating again

 

[TomL]

Faith is the Gift of God so dont boast !

religion teaches that the natural man has Faith in God, the True God, or has the ability to have Faith in the True God, the Gospel and or the things of God as an natural ability. To them its just a matter of naturally exercising this ability that will make a difference in the soul being saved or lost. Now sad to say this type of thinking is pride, self righteousness, and boasting, because when its all said and done, they can tell their lost neighbor , hey you should have done like me and put your faith in Christ, for you had the same opportunity i had, which i obviously to advantage of it better than you did.

Now lets look at an scripture passage to this point Rom 11:17-20

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.


Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.


Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Now Paul here seems to be dealing with a propensity within the believing Gentiles , they which had believed God, in opposition to the jews who had been cut off because of unbelief Vs 20 "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith."

Paul told the believing gentiles that you standest by Faith [which is obviously the Gift of Gods Grace and Power] so be not highminded but fear !

Fear God and give Him the Glory for thy Faith, or else you are being highminded, Note: Those who think they exercised their freewill to have Faith, and others who remain in unbelief didnt, they are being high-minded !

This word high-minded is a compound word hypsēlophroneō and means:

1. to be high minded, proud, hoop-say-lo-fron-eh'-o; from a compound of G5308 and G5424; to be lofty in mind, i.e. arrogant:—be highminded.
   
   See also 1 Tim 6:17 where the word is used one other time in the NT
   
   The Faith the believing gentiles had and stood by, and the broken off jews did not have, was not owing to their own freewill, but to the Grace and Power of God, for we can only believe through Grace Acts 18:27
   
   
   And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through [on the account of] grace:
   
   Because Grace reigns through Righteousness Rom 5:21
   
   That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through[on account of] righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:

You failed to address this

So why is it scripture calls salvation the gift not faith

Romans 6:23 (NASB 2020) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 4:10–14 (NASB 2020) — 10 Jesus replied to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who is saying to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” 11 She said to Him, “Sir, You have no bucket and the well is deep; where then do You get this living water? 12 You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well and drank of it himself, and his sons and his cattle?” 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again; 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never be thirsty; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up to eternal life.”
as you fail to address this


if faith is a gift from God, how could demonic activity restrict the faith of some (Luke 8:12; 2 Cor 4:4)? Why is it harder for some people to believe than others (cf. Titus 1:12-13)? What would be the point of the drawing work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44; 12:32), or of evangelism and missions? Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)? None of these questions have good answers if faith is a gift of God.

 

[TomL]

Absolutely correct-if you have time give Corrie a listen since I am learning a lot from him.

Again-my apologies for being a bit abrasive with you the other day.
Johann.

No problem apology accepted

 

[brightfame52]

Conflating again

Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:

 

[brightfame52]

You failed to address this

So why is it scripture calls salvation the gift not faith

Romans 6:23 (NASB 2020) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 4:10–14 (NASB 2020) — 10 Jesus replied to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who is saying to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” 11 She said to Him, “Sir, You have no bucket and the well is deep; where then do You get this living water? 12 You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well and drank of it himself, and his sons and his cattle?” 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again; 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never be thirsty; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up to eternal life.”
as you fail to address this


if faith is a gift from God, how could demonic activity restrict the faith of some (Luke 8:12; 2 Cor 4:4)? Why is it harder for some people to believe than others (cf. Titus 1:12-13)? What would be the point of the drawing work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44; 12:32), or of evangelism and missions? Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)? None of these questions have good answers if faith is a gift of God.

Faith is the Gift of God so dont boast !

 

[TomL]

Faith is the Gift of God so dont boast !

You continue to fail

So why is it scripture calls salvation the gift not faith

Romans 6:23 (NASB 2020) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 4:10–14 (NASB 2020) — 10 Jesus replied to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who is saying to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” 11 She said to Him, “Sir, You have no bucket and the well is deep; where then do You get this living water? 12 You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well and drank of it himself, and his sons and his cattle?” 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again; 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never be thirsty; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up to eternal life.”

as you fail to address this


if faith is a gift from God, how could demonic activity restrict the faith of some (Luke 8:12; 2 Cor 4:4)? Why is it harder for some people to believe than others (cf. Titus 1:12-13)? What would be the point of the drawing work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44; 12:32), or of evangelism and missions? Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)? None of these questions have good answers if faith is a gift of God.

 

[synergy]

Absolutely correct-if you have time give Corrie a listen since I am learning a lot from him.

Again-my apologies for being a bit abrasive with you the other day.
Johann.

That's almost a 2 hours video. Can you give us the highlights?

 

[civic]

That's almost a 2 hours video. Can you give us the highlights?

Yes faith precedes regeneration Biblical truth 101.

 

[Johann]

That's almost a 2 hours video. Can you give us the highlights?

Time is running out and we are commanded to redeem the time-if you don't have time others do.

 

[synergy]

Time is running out and we are commanded to redeem the time-if you don't have time others do.

Since "others do" then I would appreciate a summary from those "others".

 

[synergy]

Yes faith precedes regeneration Biblical truth 101.

Thanks for the summary! No need to search further.

 

[civic]

Thanks for the summary! No need to search further.

Exactly

 

[Johann]

So why is it scripture calls salvation the gift not faith

Scripture presents a nuanced perspective on faith, depicting it as both a gift from God and a human response influenced by various factors.

While faith is described as a gift from God in passages like Ephesians 2:8-9, other verses suggest that demonic activity, human sinfulness, and differing degrees of exposure to the gospel can impact one's ability to believe.

Luke 8:12 and 2 Corinthians 4:4 highlight the role of Satan in blinding the minds of unbelievers, hindering their reception of the gospel message. This spiritual warfare aspect demonstrates the reality of demonic influence on human understanding and faith.

Titus 1:12-13 suggests that cultural and personal factors, such as false teaching and societal norms, can contribute to the difficulty some individuals face in believing the gospel. These external influences can create barriers to faith, making it harder for certain people to accept the truth of the gospel message.

The drawing work of the Holy Spirit, as mentioned in John 6:44 and 12:32, operates in conjunction with human responsibility. While the Spirit draws people to Christ, individuals still have the freedom to respond to or resist His prompting. Evangelism and missions play a crucial role in spreading the gospel message and making it accessible to those who have not heard, aligning with God's desire for all people to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

Jesus' amazement at people's lack of faith in passages like Matthew 8:26, 14:31, and 16:8 underscores the human element of faith and the importance of personal response. Despite His divine knowledge, Jesus responds to human faith expressions with a range of emotions, including amazement at both strong faith and persistent unbelief. These instances serve as reminders of the complexity of faith and the significance of individual responses to God's revelation.

My faith or the gift of faith? is it possible to have faith NOT initiated by God?

Corrie-on the parable of the soils.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Scripture presents a nuanced perspective on faith, depicting it as both a gift from God and a human response influenced by various factors.

While faith is described as a gift from God in passages like Ephesians 2:8-9, other verses suggest that demonic activity, human sinfulness, and differing degrees of exposure to the gospel can impact one's ability to believe.

Luke 8:12 and 2 Corinthians 4:4 highlight the role of Satan in blinding the minds of unbelievers, hindering their reception of the gospel message. This spiritual warfare aspect demonstrates the reality of demonic influence on human understanding and faith.

Titus 1:12-13 suggests that cultural and personal factors, such as false teaching and societal norms, can contribute to the difficulty some individuals face in believing the gospel. These external influences can create barriers to faith, making it harder for certain people to accept the truth of the gospel message.

The drawing work of the Holy Spirit, as mentioned in John 6:44 and 12:32, operates in conjunction with human responsibility. While the Spirit draws people to Christ, individuals still have the freedom to respond to or resist His prompting. Evangelism and missions play a crucial role in spreading the gospel message and making it accessible to those who have not heard, aligning with God's desire for all people to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

Jesus' amazement at people's lack of faith in passages like Matthew 8:26, 14:31, and 16:8 underscores the human element of faith and the importance of personal response. Despite His divine knowledge, Jesus responds to human faith expressions with a range of emotions, including amazement at both strong faith and persistent unbelief. These instances serve as reminders of the complexity of faith and the significance of individual responses to God's revelation.

My faith or the gift of faith? is it possible to have faith NOT initiated by God?

Corrie-on the parable of the soils.

Great video! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Johann]

Great video! Thanks for sharing.

More than willing to be of assistance brother-and thank you for giving it a listen.
Johann.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

More than willing to be of assistance brother-and thank you for giving it a listen.
Johann.

I would only take issue with one thing he said. He referred to "saved" as a noun, which is incorrect. But no matter how one translates Ephesians 2:8, both salvation and faith are a gift from God, so it doesn't matter.

 

[civic]

I would only take issue with one thing he said. He referred to "saved" as a noun, which is incorrect. But no matter how one translates Ephesians 2:8, both salvation and faith are a gift from God, so it doesn't matter.

Nope the gift of Gods grace that cannot be earned by works is only one thing.

Correct answer is drum roll please ……

SALVATION- SAVED by His Grace .

Next

 

[Johann]

I would only take issue with one thing he said. He referred to "saved" as a noun, which is incorrect. But no matter how one translates Ephesians 2:8, both salvation and faith are a gift from God, so it doesn't matter.

For γὰρ - Τῇ by grace χάριτί you are ἐστε saved σεσῳσμένοι through διὰ faith, πίστεως· and καὶ this τοῦτο not οὐκ of ἐξ yourselves; ὑμῶν, [it is] the τὸ gift δῶρον· of God, Θεοῦ

No worries.

 

[civic]

Barnes below an honest Calvinist

And that not of yourselves - That is, salvation does not proceed from yourselves. The word rendered "that" - τοῦτο touto - is in the neuter gender, and the word "faith" - πίστις pistis - is in the feminine. The word "that," therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to "the salvation by grace" of which he had been speaking. This is the interpretation of the passage which is the most obvious, and which is now generally conceded to be the true one

 

[civic]

Expositors Greek NT

But on the other hand the salvation is the main idea in the preceding statement, and it seems best to understand the καὶ τοῦτο as referring to that salvation in its entire compass, and not merely to the one element in it, its instrumental cause, appended by way of explanation. Θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον; it is the gift of God. Or, perhaps, “God’s gift it is”. The salvation is not an achievement but a gift, and a gift from none other than God. This declaration of the free, unmerited, conferred nature of the salvation is made the stronger not only by the contrast with the ἐξ ὑμῶν, but by the dropping of any connecting particle.