Refuting effectually caused faith

[TomL]

If Billy Graham (a notorious free-willer) endorsed TULIP, would you care? Neither do we care what Calvin says.

Billy Graham is not the namesake of my faith

And BTW it was not just Calvin

So why is it even Calvin does not agree with you



But they commonly misintepret this text, and restrict the word ‘gift’ to faith alone. But Paul is only repeating his earlier statement in other words. He does not mean that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God … " (from, Calvin’s Commentaries 4:145

and the Calvinist Barnes

And that not of yourselves. That is, salvation does not proceed from yourselves. The word rendered that—τοῦτο—is in the neuter gender, and the word faith—πίστις—is in the feminine. The word “that,” therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to the salvation by grace of which he had been speaking. This is the interpretation of the passage which is the most obvious, and which is now generally conceded to be the true one; see Bloomfield1

1 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Ephesians, Philippians & Colossians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 42.

and this Calvinist

For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.

Finally

if faith is a gift from God, how could demonic activity restrict the faith of some (Luke 8:12; 2 Cor 4:4)? Why is it harder for some people to believe than others (cf. Titus 1:12-13)? What would be the point of the drawing work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44; 12:32), or of evangelism and missions? Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)? None of these questions have good answers if faith is a gift of God.

I notice you failed to deal with the rest including the questions based upon scriptural particulars

 

[TomL]

Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:

So why is it scripture calls salvation the gift not faith

Romans 6:23 (NASB 2020) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 4:10–14 (NASB 2020) — 10 Jesus replied to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who is saying to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” 11 She said to Him, “Sir, You have no bucket and the well is deep; where then do You get this living water? 12 You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well and drank of it himself, and his sons and his cattle?” 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again; 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never be thirsty; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up to eternal life.”

 

[TomL]

Eph 2:8 shows everything about "being saved by grace through faith" is the gift of God, all by grace, and nothing of it is of ourselves. Then you have plain statements showing that we believe because of Grace Acts 18:27Grace is not of ourselves

Nope there is but a single gift in the verse as gift is singular and according to scripture the gift is salvation

Romans 6:23 (NASB 2020) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Johann]

So why is it even Calvin does not agree with you



But they commonly misintepret this text, and restrict the word ‘gift’ to faith alone. But Paul is only repeating his earlier statement in other words. He does not mean that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God … " (from, Calvin’s Commentaries 4:145

and the Calvinist Barnes

And that not of yourselves. That is, salvation does not proceed from yourselves. The word rendered that—τοῦτο—is in the neuter gender, and the word faith—πίστις—is in the feminine. The word “that,” therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to the salvation by grace of which he had been speaking. This is the interpretation of the passage which is the most obvious, and which is now generally conceded to be the true one; see Bloomfield1

1 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Ephesians, Philippians & Colossians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 42.

and this Calvinist

For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.

Finally

if faith is a gift from God, how could demonic activity restrict the faith of some (Luke 8:12; 2 Cor 4:4)? Why is it harder for some people to believe than others (cf. Titus 1:12-13)? What would be the point of the drawing work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44; 12:32), or of evangelism and missions? Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)? None of these questions have good answers if faith is a gift of God.

1) "For by grace are ye saved" (te gar chariti este sesomenoi) "For by (the) grace ye are (having been) saved;" The grace of God just mentioned, unmerited and undeserved by destitute, transgressing sinners. The term “saved" is used to mean "delivered from spiritual death and hell." What Grace!!

2) "Through faith" (dia pisteos) "Through the means, instrument, or agency of faith," not "the faith," the whole body of Christian truth. The gift of "faith," exercised by the volition or will of a convicted sinner into Jesus Christ, brings salvation to every believer. One is said to be saved through faith, but never by grace through baptism; Gal_3:26; Act_5:9; 1Co_13:13; Joh_1:11-12.

3) "And that not of yourselves" (kai touto ouk eks humon) "And this (salvation) is not of yourselves," or out of your being or doing. Even "faith," the last means, instrument, or agency by which grace came to them, was through the initiative grace of God, for apart from or without this offered gift of faith, accepted and exercised by each, salvation came to them. Rom_1:16; 1Jn_5:1.

4) "It is the gift of God" (theou to doron) "God's gift it is,” the salvation that each had. It is not earned, merited, bought, or stolen by any person. Accepted "by faith," as freely offered, on the merit of the redemptive work of Christ, it is and becomes to every believer the effective gift of God to him, Joh_1:11-12; Heb_11:6; Joh_10:27.

Eph_2:8. τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσωσμένοι: for by grace have ye been saved. More exactly “by the grace,” i.e., by this grace, the grace already mentioned. Grace is the explanation of their own salvation, and how surpassingly rich the grace must be that could effect that!—διὰ τῆς πίστεως: through faith. That is, by faith as the instrument or means. Paul never says διὰ τὴν πίστιν, as if the faith were the ground or procuring cause of the salvation. It is the χάριτι, not the explanatory πίστεως that has the first place in Paul’s thoughts here.—καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ἡμῶν: and that not of yourselves.

That is, not as proceeding from yourselves or of your own performance. The sentence thus beginning with καὶ τοῦτο (cf. Rom_13:11) is not parenthetical, but an integral part of the statement. But to what does the τοῦτο refer? To the πίστεως say some (Chrys., Theod., Jer., Bez., Beng., Bisp., Moule, etc.).

The neut. τοῦτο would not be irreconcilable with that. The formula καὶ τοῦτο indeed might rather favour it, as it often adds to the idea to which it is attached. It may also be granted that a peculiarly suitable idea results—the opportune reminder that even their faith, in which at least they might think there was something of their own, has its origin in God’s grace, not in their own effort.

But on the other hand the salvation is the main idea in the preceding statement, and it seems best to understand the καὶ τοῦτο as referring to that salvation in its entire compass, and not merely to the one element in it, its instrumental cause, appended by way of explanation. Θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον; it is the gift of God. Or, perhaps, “God’s gift it is”.

The salvation is not an achievement but a gift, and a gift from none other than God. This declaration of the free, unmerited, conferred nature of the salvation is made the stronger not only by the contrast with the ἐξ ὑμῶν, but by the dropping of any connecting particle.
Ex-Greek

It was not my faith that saved me-God saved me in Christ Jesus dia the Holy Spirit-so that no man may boast.

 

[TomL]

1) "For by grace are ye saved" (te gar chariti este sesomenoi) "For by (the) grace ye are (having been) saved;" The grace of God just mentioned, unmerited and undeserved by destitute, transgressing sinners. The term “saved" is used to mean "delivered from spiritual death and hell." What Grace!!

2) "Through faith" (dia pisteos) "Through the means, instrument, or agency of faith," not "the faith," the whole body of Christian truth. The gift of "faith," exercised by the volition or will of a convicted sinner into Jesus Christ, brings salvation to every believer. One is said to be saved through faith, but never by grace through baptism; Gal_3:26; Act_5:9; 1Co_13:13; Joh_1:11-12.

3) "And that not of yourselves" (kai touto ouk eks humon) "And this (salvation) is not of yourselves," or out of your being or doing. Even "faith," the last means, instrument, or agency by which grace came to them, was through the initiative grace of God, for apart from or without this offered gift of faith, accepted and exercised by each, salvation came to them. Rom_1:16; 1Jn_5:1.

4) "It is the gift of God" (theou to doron) "God's gift it is,” the salvation that each had. It is not earned, merited, bought, or stolen by any person. Accepted "by faith," as freely offered, on the merit of the redemptive work of Christ, it is and becomes to every believer the effective gift of God to him, Joh_1:11-12; Heb_11:6; Joh_10:27.

Eph_2:8. τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσωσμένοι: for by grace have ye been saved. More exactly “by the grace,” i.e., by this grace, the grace already mentioned. Grace is the explanation of their own salvation, and how surpassingly rich the grace must be that could effect that!—διὰ τῆς πίστεως: through faith. That is, by faith as the instrument or means. Paul never says διὰ τὴν πίστιν, as if the faith were the ground or procuring cause of the salvation. It is the χάριτι, not the explanatory πίστεως that has the first place in Paul’s thoughts here.—καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ἡμῶν: and that not of yourselves.

That is, not as proceeding from yourselves or of your own performance. The sentence thus beginning with καὶ τοῦτο (cf. Rom_13:11) is not parenthetical, but an integral part of the statement. But to what does the τοῦτο refer? To the πίστεως say some (Chrys., Theod., Jer., Bez., Beng., Bisp., Moule, etc.).

The neut. τοῦτο would not be irreconcilable with that. The formula καὶ τοῦτο indeed might rather favour it, as it often adds to the idea to which it is attached. It may also be granted that a peculiarly suitable idea results—the opportune reminder that even their faith, in which at least they might think there was something of their own, has its origin in God’s grace, not in their own effort.

But on the other hand the salvation is the main idea in the preceding statement, and it seems best to understand the καὶ τοῦτο as referring to that salvation in its entire compass, and not merely to the one element in it, its instrumental cause, appended by way of explanation. Θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον; it is the gift of God. Or, perhaps, “God’s gift it is”.

The salvation is not an achievement but a gift, and a gift from none other than God. This declaration of the free, unmerited, conferred nature of the salvation is made the stronger not only by the contrast with the ἐξ ὑμῶν, but by the dropping of any connecting particle.
Ex-Greek

It was not my faith that saved me-God saved me in Christ Jesus dia the Holy Spirit-so that no man may boast.

and this (not your faith—this is precluded ( by the parallel clauses οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν (not of yourself)and οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, (not of works), of which the latter (not of works) would be irrelevant as asserted of πίστις, and the reference of ver. 9 must therefore be changed:

 

[Johann]

and this (not your faith—this is precluded ( by the parallel clauses οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν (not of yourself)and οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, (not of works), of which the latter (not of works) would be irrelevant as asserted of πίστις, and the reference of ver. 9 must therefore be changed:

But to what does the τοῦτο refer? To the πίστεως say some (Chrys., Theod., Jer., Bez., Beng., Bisp., Moule, etc.). The neut. τοῦτο would not be irreconcilable with that. The formula καὶ τοῦτο indeed might rather favour it, as it often adds to the idea to which it is attached. It may also be granted that a peculiarly suitable idea results—the opportune reminder that even their faith, in which at least they might think there was something of their own, has its origin in God’s grace, not in their own effort.

But on the other hand the salvation is the main idea in the preceding statement, and it seems best to understand the καὶ τοῦτο as referring to that salvation in its entire compass, and not merely to the one element in it, its instrumental cause, appended by way of explanation.

Θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον; it is the gift of God. Or, perhaps, “God’s gift it is”. The salvation is not an achievement but a gift, and a gift from none other than God. This declaration of the free, unmerited, conferred nature of the salvation is made the stronger not only by the contrast with the ἐξ ὑμῶν, but by the dropping of any connecting particle.
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

--and that -- This is the Greek demonstrative pronoun (touto), which is neuter in gender. The closest nouns, "grace" and "faith," are both feminine in gender. Therefore, this must refer to the whole process of salvation as completed in Christ. (Utley)
“That” refers to the entire previous statement of salvation. FSB

not of yourselves -- This is the first of three phrases which clearly show that salvation is not based on human performance: (1) "not of yourselves" Eph_2:8; (2) "gift of God" Eph_2:8; and (3) "not as a result of works (either OT works or one's own merit) " Eph_2:9.
(τοῦτο touto) refers to “faith” (πίστις pistis); and Doddridge maintains that such a use is common in the New Testament. As a matter of grammar this opinion is certainly doubtful, ; but as a matter of theology it is a question of very little importance.
Whether this passage proves it or not, it is certainly true that faith is the gift of God. It exists in the mind only when the Holy Spirit produces it there, and is, in common with every other Christian excellence, to be traced to his agency on the heart. This opinion, however, does not militate at all with the doctrine that man himself “believes.” It is not God that “believes” for him, for that is impossible. It is his own mind that actually believes, or that exercises faith; see the notes at Rom_4:3.
Albert Barnes

Faith cannot be "precluded" as Henry Barnes advocate brother-otherwise we can use commentaries very selectively to steel man our bias.
We look at everything, since we are not scholars and search the Scriptures for ourselves.
My apologies for being "otherwise" with you.

 

[Johann]

and this (not your faith—this is precluded ( by the parallel clauses οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν (not of yourself)and οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, (not of works), of which the latter (not of works) would be irrelevant as asserted of πίστις, and the reference of ver. 9 must therefore be changed:

 

[TomL]

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

 

[Johann]

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

I'm not disagreeing with Scriptures but referring to our initial salvation-a gift wholly from God or did we contribute TO the salvation given us?

 

[TomL]

I'm not disagreeing with Scriptures but referring to our initial salvation-a gift wholly from God or did we contribute TO the salvation given us?

Salvation is indeed a gift, and it is not earned by one's belief in the Gospel, though faith is a condition God takes into account before providing salvation

 

[civic]

Salvation is indeed a gift, and it is not earned by one's belief in the Gospel, though faith is a condition God takes into account before providing salvation

Yep

 

[Johann]

Salvation is indeed a gift, and it is not earned by one's belief in the Gospel, though faith is a condition God takes into account before providing salvation

Absolutely correct-if you have time give Corrie a listen since I am learning a lot from him.

Again-my apologies for being a bit abrasive with you the other day.
Johann.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is the Gift of God so dont boast !

Man centered religion teaches that the natural man has Faith in God, the True God, or has the ability to have Faith in the True God, the Gospel and or the things of God as an natural ability. To them its just a matter of naturally exercising this ability that will make a difference in the soul being saved or lost. Now sad to say this type of thinking is pride, self righteousness, and boasting, because when its all said and done, they can tell their lost neighbor , hey you should have done like me and put your faith in Christ, for you had the same opportunity i had, which i obviously to advantage of it better than you did.

Now lets look at an scripture passage to this point Rom 11:17-20

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.


Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.


Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Now Paul here seems to be dealing with a propensity within the believing Gentiles , they which had believed God, in opposition to the jews who had been cut off because of unbelief Vs 20 "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith."

Paul told the believing gentiles that you standest by Faith [which is obviously the Gift of Gods Grace and Power] so be not highminded but fear !

Fear God and give Him the Glory for thy Faith, or else you are being highminded, Note: Those who think they exercised their freewill to have Faith, and others who remain in unbelief didnt, they are being high-minded !

This word high-minded is a compound word hypsēlophroneō and means:

1. to be high minded, proud, hoop-say-lo-fron-eh'-o; from a compound of G5308 and G5424; to be lofty in mind, i.e. arrogant:—be highminded.
   
   See also 1 Tim 6:17 where the word is used one other time in the NT
   
   The Faith the believing gentiles had and stood by, and the broken off jews did not have, was not owing to their own freewill, but to the Grace and Power of God, for we can only believe through Grace Acts 18:27
   
   
   And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through [on the account of] grace:
   
   Because Grace reigns through Righteousness Rom 5:21
   
   That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through[on account of] righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[civic]

Faith is the Gift of God so dont boast !

Man centered religion teaches that the natural man has Faith in God, the True God, or has the ability to have Faith in the True God, the Gospel and or the things of God as an natural ability. To them its just a matter of naturally exercising this ability that will make a difference in the soul being saved or lost. Now sad to say this type of thinking is pride, self righteousness, and boasting, because when its all said and done, they can tell their lost neighbor , hey you should have done like me and put your faith in Christ, for you had the same opportunity i had, which i obviously to advantage of it better than you did.

Now lets look at an scripture passage to this point Rom 11:17-20

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.


Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.


Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Now Paul here seems to be dealing with a propensity within the believing Gentiles , they which had believed God, in opposition to the jews who had been cut off because of unbelief Vs 20 "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith."

Paul told the believing gentiles that you standest by Faith [which is obviously the Gift of Gods Grace and Power] so be not highminded but fear !

Fear God and give Him the Glory for thy Faith, or else you are being highminded, Note: Those who think they exercised their freewill to have Faith, and others who remain in unbelief didnt, they are being high-minded !

This word high-minded is a compound word hypsēlophroneō and means:

1. to be high minded, proud, hoop-say-lo-fron-eh'-o; from a compound of G5308 and G5424; to be lofty in mind, i.e. arrogant:—be highminded.
   
   See also 1 Tim 6:17 where the word is used one other time in the NT
   
   The Faith the believing gentiles had and stood by, and the broken off jews did not have, was not owing to their own freewill, but to the Grace and Power of God, for we can only believe through Grace Acts 18:27
   
   
   And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through [on the account of] grace:
   
   Because Grace reigns through Righteousness Rom 5:21
   
   That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through[on account of] righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

he already believed in God.

the context refutes your false premise

Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor[a] and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.

27 When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers and sisters encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. When he arrived, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed. 28 For he vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.

next

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is the Gift of God so dont boast !

religion teaches that the natural man has Faith in God, the True God, or has the ability to have Faith in the True God, the Gospel and or the things of God as an natural ability. To them its just a matter of naturally exercising this ability that will make a difference in the soul being saved or lost. Now sad to say this type of thinking is pride, self righteousness, and boasting, because when its all said and done, they can tell their lost neighbor , hey you should have done like me and put your faith in Christ, for you had the same opportunity i had, which i obviously to advantage of it better than you did.

Now lets look at an scripture passage to this point Rom 11:17-20

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.


Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.


Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Now Paul here seems to be dealing with a propensity within the believing Gentiles , they which had believed God, in opposition to the jews who had been cut off because of unbelief Vs 20 "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith."

Paul told the believing gentiles that you standest by Faith [which is obviously the Gift of Gods Grace and Power] so be not highminded but fear !

Fear God and give Him the Glory for thy Faith, or else you are being highminded, Note: Those who think they exercised their freewill to have Faith, and others who remain in unbelief didnt, they are being high-minded !

This word high-minded is a compound word hypsēlophroneō and means:

1. to be high minded, proud, hoop-say-lo-fron-eh'-o; from a compound of G5308 and G5424; to be lofty in mind, i.e. arrogant:—be highminded.
   
   See also 1 Tim 6:17 where the word is used one other time in the NT
   
   The Faith the believing gentiles had and stood by, and the broken off jews did not have, was not owing to their own freewill, but to the Grace and Power of God, for we can only believe through Grace Acts 18:27
   
   
   And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through [on the account of] grace:
   
   Because Grace reigns through Righteousness Rom 5:21
   
   That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through[on account of] righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

So why is it scripture calls salvation the gift not faith

Romans 6:23 (NASB 2020) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 4:10–14 (NASB 2020) — 10 Jesus replied to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who is saying to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” 11 She said to Him, “Sir, You have no bucket and the well is deep; where then do You get this living water? 12 You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well and drank of it himself, and his sons and his cattle?” 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again; 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never be thirsty; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up to eternal life.”

Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:

 

[brightfame52]

he already believed in God.

the context refutes your false premise

Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor[a] and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.

27 When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers and sisters encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. When he arrived, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed. 28 For he vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.

next

Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:

 

[civic]

Faith is the Gift of God so dont boast !

religion teaches that the natural man has Faith in God, the True God, or has the ability to have Faith in the True God, the Gospel and or the things of God as an natural ability. To them its just a matter of naturally exercising this ability that will make a difference in the soul being saved or lost. Now sad to say this type of thinking is pride, self righteousness, and boasting, because when its all said and done, they can tell their lost neighbor , hey you should have done like me and put your faith in Christ, for you had the same opportunity i had, which i obviously to advantage of it better than you did.

Now lets look at an scripture passage to this point Rom 11:17-20

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.


Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.


Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Now Paul here seems to be dealing with a propensity within the believing Gentiles , they which had believed God, in opposition to the jews who had been cut off because of unbelief Vs 20 "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith."

Paul told the believing gentiles that you standest by Faith [which is obviously the Gift of Gods Grace and Power] so be not highminded but fear !

Fear God and give Him the Glory for thy Faith, or else you are being highminded, Note: Those who think they exercised their freewill to have Faith, and others who remain in unbelief didnt, they are being high-minded !

This word high-minded is a compound word hypsēlophroneō and means:

1. to be high minded, proud, hoop-say-lo-fron-eh'-o; from a compound of G5308 and G5424; to be lofty in mind, i.e. arrogant:—be highminded.
   
   See also 1 Tim 6:17 where the word is used one other time in the NT
   
   The Faith the believing gentiles had and stood by, and the broken off jews did not have, was not owing to their own freewill, but to the Grace and Power of God, for we can only believe through Grace Acts 18:27
   
   
   And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through [on the account of] grace:
   
   Because Grace reigns through Righteousness Rom 5:21
   
   That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through[on account of] righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:

nope the faith given were already believers in those passages- not unbelievers.

next fallacy

 

[brightfame52]

nope the faith given were already believers in those passages- not unbelievers.

next fallacy

Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:

 

[civic]

Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:

salvation is not of oneself- it comes from Gods grace

next

 

[brightfame52]

salvation is not of oneself- it comes from Gods grace

next

Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace: