Refuting effectually caused faith

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, raised Greek Orthodox.

Dear God in heaven. All these years, I've never seen a single thing come from you relative to Greek Orthodoxy.

Are you telling the truth? Care to take a test?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, raised Greek Orthodox.

Struggling with the Greek OT and you were raised Greek Orthodox? Has someone stolen you login in here?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Dear God in heaven. All these years, I've never seen a single thing come from you relative to Greek Orthodoxy.

Are you telling the truth? Care to take a test?

I was raised Greek Orthodox. I humbly request that you do not assume I am lying. I never "believed" in the Greek Orthodox - I rejected it all and was an atheist. But I was dragged to Greek Orthodox church and the various Sunday schools. I hated church services, the horrible singing of the Greek cantor, the standing, the kneeling, the sitting up and down up and down.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Struggling with the Greek OT and you were raised Greek Orthodox? Has someone stolen you login in here?

Greek OT??? You mean the Septuagint?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I should add that I DID love the real wine and the Greek communion bread.

 

[Horatius]

Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Arminians don't deny that Jesus is the author of faith.

Ever heard of

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

None of these verses says anything about God granting faith to some and deny it to others.

Yes I may have Red Colossians a few times. Colossians 1:15–23 is an extensive praise of Jesus Christ. In this passage, Paul explains that Jesus is eternal, just as God is eternal, and all created things were created by Him, and through Him, and for Him. After describing Jesus as absolutely supreme, Paul then explains that it was His sacrifice which allowed the Colossians—and all saved believers—to be reconciled to God.

As you said none of the verses in Colossians 1 say anything about god-graining faith to some and not to others. I never disagreed with that in fact let me add this to it.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I was raised Greek Orthodox. I humbly request that you do not assume I am lying.

It would be nice if you let someone else "humbly" have the same......

I never "believed" in the Greek Orthodox - I rejected it all and was an atheist. But I was dragged to Greek Orthodox church and the various Sunday schools. I hated church services, the horrible singing of the Greek cantor, the standing, the kneeling, the sitting up and down up and down.

So you never read the Greek OT? nor heard if read during any of you liturgies?

Yes. I question your expertise in Greek. I can go back to my forum and pull the thread on our discussions about it. At one time you claimed to not know anything about it.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Greek communion bread has Chios Mastic in it, which gives it a really unique flavor. I use it when I make Greek new years bread, which I still prepare once in a while. I don't put a coin in it, like you're supposed to do, but it's my favorite bread, especially the slightly undercooked middle. Makes one really gassy, however.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes I may have Red Colossians a few times. Colossians 1:15–23 is an extensive praise of Jesus Christ. In this passage, Paul explains that Jesus is eternal, just as God is eternal, and all created things were created by Him, and through Him, and for Him. After describing Jesus as absolutely supreme, Paul then explains that it was His sacrifice which allowed the Colossians—and all saved believers—to be reconciled to God.

As you said none of the verses in Colossians 1 say anything about god-graining faith to some and not to others. I never disagreed with that in fact let me add this to it.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

You seemed certain to me. Didn't you accept Hebrews 2:10 as evident of just that? Have you changed your position now?

I'm glad you know that faith grows. Some have more than others. Is that because of God or man?

Lets carry this through to its completion.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

It would be nice if you let someone else "humbly" have the same......

So you never read the Greek OT? nor heard if read during any of you liturgies?

Yes. I question your expertise in Greek. I can go back to my forum and pull the thread on our discussions about it. At one time you claimed to not know anything about it.

I still don't know anything about it unless you mean the Septuagint. But the fact remains that I was raised Greek Orthodox.

 

[Johann]

Funny. You never respond. Do you live by your own recommendations or do you just make them as you go?

Oh-I do respond and I am like a Berean-always searching the Scriptures.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Oh-I do respond and I am like a Berean-always searching the Scriptures.

No you don't. A dialogue requires you to respond to things that challenge you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I still don't know anything about it unless you mean the Septuagint. But the fact remains that I was raised Greek Orthodox.

Greek Orthodox traditions largely center around Byzantine traditions from no earlier than the 4th century. However, they claim to have always embraced the Greek OT. Just don't ask them to establish them where they got it from......

Much like Catholics, they overstate their heritage.

There is no definitive Greek OT apart from the collection found within Codex Alexandrinus and the Greek Orthodox tradition didn't change that.

 

[Johann]

I should simply have said, "You're preaching to the choir, brother."

Well-I went through the teachings of the Church Fathers and none of them reckon that faith is a work.

 

[Johann]

No you don't. A dialogue requires you to respond to things that challenge you.

I am being challenged-just not by you. The reason you are on ignore.

 

[synergy]

Well-I am learning, so we will have to wait and see if faith is a work or a gift-right?

What about "your work of faith" in 1 Th 1:3? Now that really clears things up!

1 Th 1:3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,

 

[Johann]

How about "your work of faith"? Now that really clears things up!

1 Th 1:3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,

Is faith a work @synergy?

your work of. FS29, +Exo_19:6, This may be understood to mean "work which proceeds from faith, labour which proceeds from love, and patience that proceeds from hope" if taken as the genitive of origin. The genitive, however, may be, by Antimereia, faithful service, loving labour, and hopeful patience. But if the figure is Antiptosis, then it means a working faith (i.e. a faith which is manifested by its works), a labourious love, and patient hope. Probably all three interpretations are correct! (F/S 508). 1Th_1:9, *1Th_2:13; 1Th_2:14, Joh_5:24; Joh_6:27-29, Rom_14:18; Rom_16:26, **1Co_15:58, *Gal_5:6, Php_1:6; +*Php_2:12, *2Th_1:3; *2Th_1:11, Heb_4:11; +*Heb_6:10; Heb_11:7-8; Heb_11:17; Heb_11:24-34, *Jas_2:17-26, Rev_2:19.
of faith. FS174, +Gen_18:27, *1Th_3:6; 1Th_5:8, Mar_2:5, Act_11:23, Rom_10:8-17, 1Co_13:13, Eph_1:15, Col_1:4, Heb_6:12, Jas_2:14; Jas_2:18, 1Pe_1:5.

Since no Church father was teaching that-correct?

Chrysostom (ΤΊ ἘΣΤΙ ΤΟῦ ἜΡΓΟΥ Τῆς ΠΊΣΤΕΩς; ὍΤΙ ΟὐΔῈΝ ὙΜῶΝ ΠΑΡΈΚΛΙΝΕ ΤῊΝ ἜΝΣΤΑΣΙΝ· ΤΟῦΤΟ ΓᾺΡ ἜΡΓΟΝ ΠΊΣΤΕΩς. ΕἸ ΠΙΣΤΕΎΕΙς, ΠΆΝΤΑ ΠΆΣΧΕ· ΕἸ ΔῈ ΜῊ ΠΆΣΧΕΙς, Οὐ ΠΙΣΤΕΎΕΙς), Theodoret, Oecumenius, Theophylact, Calovius, Bisping, and others understand the words of the verification of faith by stedfastness under persecution. This meaning underlying the words appears to come nearest to the correct sense. ὑμῶν τοῦ ἔργου τῆς πίστεως denotes your work of faith; but as ἜΡΓΟΥ has the emphasis (not ΠΊΣΤΕΩς, as Hofmann thinks), it is accordingly best explained: the work which is peculiar to your faith—by which it is characterized, inasmuch as your faith is something begun with energy, and held fast with resoluteness, in spite of all obstacles and oppositions. This meaning strikingly suits the circumstances of the Epistle.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I still don't know anything about it unless you mean the Septuagint. But the fact remains that I was raised Greek Orthodox.

You're right. I vaguely remember your mentioning your were Greek Orthodox at one time. Sorry for challenging you on your history. My apologies.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I am being challenged-just not by you. The reason you are on ignore.

Is that how you chose to respond to? Who else has said anything to you about mikveh?

 

[synergy]

Is faith a work @synergy?

your work of. FS29, +Exo_19:6, This may be understood to mean "work which proceeds from faith, labour which proceeds from love, and patience that proceeds from hope" if taken as the genitive of origin. The genitive, however, may be, by Antimereia, faithful service, loving labour, and hopeful patience. But if the figure is Antiptosis, then it means a working faith (i.e. a faith which is manifested by its works), a labourious love, and patient hope. Probably all three interpretations are correct! (F/S 508). 1Th_1:9, *1Th_2:13; 1Th_2:14, Joh_5:24; Joh_6:27-29, Rom_14:18; Rom_16:26, **1Co_15:58, *Gal_5:6, Php_1:6; +*Php_2:12, *2Th_1:3; *2Th_1:11, Heb_4:11; +*Heb_6:10; Heb_11:7-8; Heb_11:17; Heb_11:24-34, *Jas_2:17-26, Rev_2:19.
of faith. FS174, +Gen_18:27, *1Th_3:6; 1Th_5:8, Mar_2:5, Act_11:23, Rom_10:8-17, 1Co_13:13, Eph_1:15, Col_1:4, Heb_6:12, Jas_2:14; Jas_2:18, 1Pe_1:5.

Since no Church father was teaching that-correct?

Chrysostom (ΤΊ ἘΣΤΙ ΤΟῦ ἜΡΓΟΥ Τῆς ΠΊΣΤΕΩς; ὍΤΙ ΟὐΔῈΝ ὙΜῶΝ ΠΑΡΈΚΛΙΝΕ ΤῊΝ ἜΝΣΤΑΣΙΝ· ΤΟῦΤΟ ΓᾺΡ ἜΡΓΟΝ ΠΊΣΤΕΩς. ΕἸ ΠΙΣΤΕΎΕΙς, ΠΆΝΤΑ ΠΆΣΧΕ· ΕἸ ΔῈ ΜῊ ΠΆΣΧΕΙς, Οὐ ΠΙΣΤΕΎΕΙς), Theodoret, Oecumenius, Theophylact, Calovius, Bisping, and others understand the words of the verification of faith by stedfastness under persecution. This meaning underlying the words appears to come nearest to the correct sense. ὑμῶν τοῦ ἔργου τῆς πίστεως denotes your work of faith; but as ἜΡΓΟΥ has the emphasis (not ΠΊΣΤΕΩς, as Hofmann thinks), it is accordingly best explained: the work which is peculiar to your faith—by which it is characterized, inasmuch as your faith is something begun with energy, and held fast with resoluteness, in spite of all obstacles and oppositions. This meaning strikingly suits the circumstances of the Epistle.

Even though faith and good works are not exactly the same thing still there is an undeniable strong relationship between the 2 of them. Faith without good works is no faith at all, in fact it's dead according to James 2:14.