Refuting effectually caused faith

[Rockson]

For Calvinists belief is just an afterthought that needs to be inserted somewhere anywhere into its doctrines so that hopefully what the Bible says about belief is covered.

In other words they have no clue to even what it means. Not a put down but they really don't.

 

[TomL]

Your position isn't merely just weak it's without any strength at all.

For you what is on this side of believing----->??????

It can't be LIFE for, for you LIFE came before believing. Regeneration is LIFE!
So what exactly does believing do for you?

It's a good question for him/her as he/she seems to think certain select people had all before the foundation of the earth,

Outside of Christ making it heresy.

 

[brightfame52]

you addressed nothing

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-77935

One must be regenerated before they can believe, otherwise we are dead in sin, believing is an activity of Spiritual life, Faith its the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[brightfame52]

Your position isn't merely just weak it's without any strength at all.

For you what is on this side of believing----->??????

It can't be LIFE for, for you LIFE came before believing. Regeneration is LIFE!
So what exactly does believing do for you?

One must be regenerated before they can believe, otherwise we are dead in sin, believing is an activity of Spiritual life, its the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

Believing brings peace of mind Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

 

[TomL]

One must be regenerated before they can believe, otherwise we are dead in sin, believing is an activity of Spiritual life, Faith its the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

you addressed nothing

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-77935

PS only believers receive the Spirit and thus his fruits

 

[brightfame52]

you addressed nothing

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-77935

PS only believers receive the Spirit and thus his fruits

One must be regenerated before they can believe, otherwise we are dead in sin, believing is an activity of Spiritual life, Faith its the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[Rockson]

One must be regenerated before they can believe, otherwise we are dead in sin, believing is an activity of Spiritual life, Faith its the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

So that's what you're willing to use as your pillar to hold up your belief? That faith is a fruit of the Spirit? You remind me of one certain ministry I know who says their doctrines won't work unless one uses the King James Bible. (actually they had some very strange ideas) Problem is nearly every single translation you can quote from now render faith in that verse as faithfulness.

NIV, NLT, BSB, NASB ASV, even the version considered shall I say the Calvinisticly leaning ESV they changed that from faith to faithfulness. Even the New King James has rendered it now as faithfulness and not faith looking at the context in which this Greek word, pistis is used.

 

[civic]

It's a good question for him/her as he/she seems to think certain select people had all before the foundation of the earth,

Outside of Christ making it heresy.

Yes another example of false teaching

 

[civic]

So that's what you're willing to use as your pillar to hold up your belief? That faith is a fruit of the Spirit? You remind me of one certain ministry I know who says their doctrines won't work unless one uses the King James Bible. (actually they had some very strange ideas) Problem is nearly every single translation you can quote from now render faith in that verse as faithfulness.

NIV, NLT, BSB, NASB ASV, even the version considered shall if say the Calvinisticly leaning ESV they changed that from faith to faithfulness. Even the New King James has rendered it now as faithfulness and not faith looking at the context in which this Greek word, pistis is used.

Yes it’s post salvation in the passage and what happens when a believer yields to the Holy Spirit and what He produces in the believers life. It’s not salvific at all as Paul contrasts living in the flesh vs the Spirit. This is the usual conflating used by Calvinists and their eisegesis.

 

[Rockson]

One must be regenerated before they can believe, otherwise we are dead in sin, believing is an activity of Spiritual life, its the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

So where does fruit grow? On the branches not the trunk. And we all know that life comes from the trunk of stem and not the branches. So you've really ended up with a thinking that you were actually engrafted into the root/stem or trunk even BEFORE you believed. So if you're engrafted in then you have NOTHING to believe unless you can tell us then what are you believing for ? Believing therefore doesn't mean anything however the Bible teaches it's absolutely crucial.

 

[civic]

So where does fruit grow? On the branches not the trunk. And we all know that life comes from the trunk of stem and not the branches. So you've really ended up with a thinking that you were actually engrafted into the root/stem or trunk even BEFORE you believed. So if you're engrafted in then you have NOTHING to believe unless you can tell us then what are you believing for ? Believing therefore doesn't mean anything however the Bible teaches it's absolutely crucial.

Great biblical illustration of this unbiblical doctrine being espoused. Nice job

 

[Rockson]

Believing brings peace of mind Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Not talking about believing for salvation, it's talking about being a believer you face many trials and you need joy and peace while your holding on to being loyal to God. As you continue to manifest forth the joy and peace your confidence abounds.

 

[TomL]

Yes another example of false teaching

One of the clearest

 

[TomL]

One must be regenerated before they can believe, otherwise we are dead in sin, believing is an activity of Spiritual life, Faith its the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

you addressed nothing

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-77935

PS only believers receive the Spirit and thus his fruits

 

[civic]

you addressed nothing

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-77935

PS only believers receive the Spirit and thus his fruits

ditto and only unbelievers become believers via salvific faith. he is conflating them.

 

[TomL]

ditto and only unbelievers become believers via salvific faith. he is conflating them.

He has a false doctrine he wants to defend

 

[praise_yeshua]

So where does fruit grow? On the branches not the trunk. And we all know that life comes from the trunk of stem and not the branches. So you've really ended up with a thinking that you were actually engrafted into the root/stem or trunk even BEFORE you believed. So if you're engrafted in then you have NOTHING to believe unless you can tell us then what are you believing for ? Believing therefore doesn't mean anything however the Bible teaches it's absolutely crucial.

Jas 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

 

[brightfame52]

@Rockson

So that's what you're willing to use as your pillar to hold up your belief? That faith is a fruit of the Spirit?

Thats just one of many scripture arguments I have used.

 

[brightfame52]

So where does fruit grow? On the branches not the trunk. And we all know that life comes from the trunk of stem and not the branches. So you've really ended up with a thinking that you were actually engrafted into the root/stem or trunk even BEFORE you believed. So if you're engrafted in then you have NOTHING to believe unless you can tell us then what are you believing for ? Believing therefore doesn't mean anything however the Bible teaches it's absolutely crucial.

One must be regenerated before they can believe, otherwise we are dead in sin, believing is an activity of Spiritual life, its the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

 

[brightfame52]

Not talking about believing for salvation, it's talking about being a believer you face many trials and you need joy and peace while your holding on to being loyal to God. As you continue to manifest forth the joy and peace your confidence abounds.

It is about Salvation and the whole of the believers life