John 6 the context

It does not say that. Even Flowers agrees that is how they are drawn, not why.
oh yes it does its obvious all the words I said are in the text and its those who listen, learn, are taught, eat, drink, believe and receive whom are drawn to the Son by the Father. Try believing Jesus words in John chapter 6 and not one isolated verse RIPPED out from the context.
 
What is never found in scripture is the idea of unconditional election

Coming to Christ is believing on him

John repeats in multiple verses ways in which men can come to (believe upon) Christ

John 5 list a number of them

Starting with believing what Moses wrote, those who believe what Moses wrote come to (believe upon ) Christ

John 5:46–47 (KJV 1900) — 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

And seeing as Moses was speaking the words of God

Those who heard from and listened to Moses would come to Christ

You wish to isolate john 6 from its context which is poor exegesis
yes they read the U and the T and the I and L into John 6.
 
What is never found in scripture is the idea of unconditional election

Coming to Christ is believing on him

John repeats in multiple verses ways in which men can come to (believe upon) Christ

John 5 list a number of them

Starting with believing what Moses wrote, those who believe what Moses wrote come to (believe upon ) Christ

John 5:46–47 (KJV 1900) — 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

And seeing as Moses was speaking the words of God

Those who heard from and listened to Moses would come to Christ

You wish to isolate john 6 from its context which is poor exegesis
Change of topic. The topic is the Provisionist presupposing the reason they are drawn is because they heard and learned.
 
The Calvinist wishes to ignore the overall context, much like James White did

Thank you
yes the pleading of only talking about John 6:45 in isolation- the calvinist strawman. thats the only way they can defend it is in isolation from the text.
 
oh yes it does its obvious all the words I said are in the text and its those who listen, learn, are taught, eat, drink, believe and receive whom are drawn to the Son by the Father. Try believing Jesus words in John chapter 6 and not one isolated verse RIPPED out from the context.
Rant time because our Provisionist friends can't prove their premise. Why? Because it's presupposes.
 
Rant time because our Provisionist friends can't prove their premise. Why? Because it's presupposes.
no all the words I used of those who are drawn are from the text. You are the one in denial, not me.

31- Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
35-36- I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.
40- For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day
45- It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
49-51- Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever.
53-54- Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
57-58- Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

conclusion: the above coincides with John opening and closing of the gospel in John 1:11-12 and 20:31- Those who believe and receive Christ will have life eternal and Christ will raise them on the last day. Those are the same exact ones who listen to Moses, the Father and the Son. They are the ones whom are drawn by the Father- those who eat, drink, listen and learn. Notice in John 6 its all, anyone, everyone, whoever. For God so over the world the WHOEVER believes in the Son will have eternal life. see John 3:16. Whoever does not believe remains condemned for they have not believed in Gods one and only Son. see John 3:18. My view of John 6 is consistent with the entire gospel of John from chapter 1 through chapter 20. Johns message is the same from John 1 through John 20. Anyone can come to Jesus and receive eternal life. Christ died for everyone. Only those who believe/receive the Son will have eternal life, become children of God and those who do not believe/receive Him remain condemned.

hope this helps !!!
 
Spot on Tom the context makes it obvious but we know they hang their hat on an isolated verse ripped out of the context this is just another example of proof texting and eisegesis . It’s exactly what white did in the debate . You can only discuss John 6:45 rofl 😂
Exactly by isolating a verse one makes it easy to read their theology into. Considering context both near and far however makes it difficult to read into the text ones presuppositions.

This was James White's tactic at times in his debates with Leighton flowers
 
Rant time because our Provisionist friends can't prove their premise. Why? Because it's presupposes.
LOL: There are a multitude of verses you fail to address which show that listening and learning from the father however his message may come whether prophet or scripture leads to believing in Christ
 
More facts from Jesus in John 6

It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven.55 Whoever eats this bread will live forever. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
 
LOL: There are a multitude of verses you fail to address which show that listening and learning from the father however his message may come whether prophet or scripture leads to believing in Christ
And you failed to prove that hearing and learning is the reason they are drawn. The orginal premise remember?
 
no all the words I used of those who are drawn are from the text. You are the one in denial, not me.

31- Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
35-36- I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.
40- For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day
45- It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
49-51- Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever.
53-54- Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
57-58- Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

conclusion: the above coincides with John opening and closing of the gospel in John 1:11-12 and 20:31- Those who believe and receive Christ will have life eternal and Christ will raise them on the last day. Those are the same exact ones who listen to Moses, the Father and the Son. They are the ones whom are drawn by the Father- those who eat, drink, listen and learn. Notice in John 6 its all, anyone, everyone, whoever. For God so over the world the WHOEVER believes in the Son will have eternal life. see John 3:16. Whoever does not believe remains condemned for they have not believed in Gods one and only Son. see John 3:18. My view of John 6 is consistent with the entire gospel of John from chapter 1 through chapter 20. Johns message is the same from John 1 through John 20. Anyone can come to Jesus and receive eternal life. Christ died for everyone. Only those who believe/receive the Son will have eternal life, become children of God and those who do not believe/receive Him remain condemned.

hope this helps !!!
Nothing about the hearing and learning being the reason one is drawn. At least you can cut and paste and not waste to much time typing all that.
 
And you failed to prove that hearing and learning is the reason they are drawn. The orginal premise remember?
Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. vs 45.
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them,

see the connection yet ?

Biblical Conclusion from Jesus : those who come are the same ones who have heard and learned from the Father. Its those who listen and learn who are drawn.

hope this helps !!!
 
And you failed to prove that hearing and learning is the reason they are drawn. The orginal premise remember?
Sorry you are in denial

We saw those who heard and listened to Moses come to (believe upon) Christ

John 5:46–47 (KJV 1900) — 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

We even have the same disability those who did not believe Moses will not believe Christ
 
Sorry you are in denial

We saw those who heard and listened to Moses come to (believe upon) Christ

John 5:46–47 (KJV 1900) — 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

We even have the same disability those who did not believe Moses will not believe Christ
who are the same ones who do not listen and learn from the Father. :)

cognitive dissonance at work.
 
who are the same ones who do not listen and learn from the Father. :)

cognitive dissonance at work.
Exactly

Those Who believe Moses believe Christ

Those who believe scripture believe Christ

Those who believe Abraham believe Christ

Those who believe God believe Christ

Those who do not believe Moses, Abraham, scripture, god do not believe Christ

John 6:44,45 is echoing the same thing John had stated previously
 
Sorry you are in denial

We saw those who heard and listened to Moses come to (believe upon) Christ

John 5:46–47 (KJV 1900) — 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

We even have the same disability those who did not believe Moses will not believe Christ
Sorry, but you are in denial. Nothing there about the reason why they are drawn or given to the Father.

If your simply going to keep repeating yourself I am bowing out of this conversation with you. It's going nowhere and wasting my time.

Have a good day and God bless
 
Exactly

Those Who believe Moses believe Christ

Those who believe scripture believe Christ

Those who believe Abraham believe Christ

Those who believe God believe Christ

Those who do not believe Moses, Abraham, scripture, god do not believe Christ

John 6:44,45 is echoing the same thing John had stated previously
Nothing about why they are drawn though.
 
Nothing about why they are drawn though.
Coming to christ, believing on Christ is being drawn to Christ

They are drawn because they believe that is they hear and learn

Those Who believe Moses believe Christ. They are drawn by Moses

Those who believe scripture believe Christ. They are drawn by scripture

Those who believe Abraham believe Christ

Those who believe God believe Christ

Those who do not believe Moses, Abraham, scripture, God do not believe Christ they are not drawn
 
Sorry, but you are in denial. Nothing there about the reason why they are drawn or given to the Father.

If your simply going to keep repeating yourself I am bowing out of this conversation with you. It's going nowhere and wasting my time.

Have a good day and God bless
As I stated you are in denial

scripture establishes that those who believe the testimony of God whether it comes from Moses, scripture, the law and the prophets believe (come to) Christ

That is them being drawn attracted to Christ

john is telling us the same thing over and over
 
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