John 6 the context

[The Rogue Tomato]

Can you deny Jesus is now doing the drawing?

I deny the "all people" if by that you think it means "all people without exception".

How do you interpret scripture? You compare it to other scripture.

It is, "For MANY are called but few are chosen."
It is NOT "For all are called but few choose". Sorry, free-willers. 'Taint so.

And, "the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for MANY.”

MANY does not equal ALL. So "Draw all people" cannot mean "Draw all people who lived, live, and will live without exception." Unless you can find some other way to harmonize "all" with "many", it must mean all people without distinction.

 

[civic]

It is how they become drawn

Yep the condition

 

[TomL]

I deny the "all people" if by that you think it means "all people without exception".

How do you interpret scripture? You compare it to other scripture.

It is, "For MANY are called but few are chosen."
It is NOT "For all are called but few choose". Sorry, free-willers. 'Taint so.

And, "the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for MANY.”

MANY does not equal ALL. So "Draw all people" cannot mean "Draw all people who lived, live, and will live without exception." Unless you can find some other way to harmonize "all" with "many", it must mean all people without distinction.

The question I asked was

Can you deny Jesus is now doing the drawing?

When Christ was on earth the Father was doing the drawing

After the Cross Christ is drawing

 

[Presby02]

The question I asked was

Can you deny Jesus is now doing the drawing?

When Christ was on earth the Father was doing the drawing

After the Cross Christ is drawing

Let's say this is true. So what.

 

[TomL]

Those who hear and learn FROM THE FATHER, come and are raised on the last day.

Yes and I stated

all do not learn (having heard)

Isaiah 48:17–19 (KJV 1900) — 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, Which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! Then had thy peace been as a river, And thy righteousness as the waves of the sea: 19 Thy seed also had been as the sand, And the offspring of thy bowels like the gravel thereof; His name should not have been cut off nor destroyed from before me.

Jeremiah 32:31–33 (KJV 1900) — 31 For this city hath been to me as a provocation of mine anger and of my fury from the day that they built it even unto this day; that I should remove it from before my face, 32 Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.

 

[TomL]

Let's say this is true. So what.

So you cannot apply John 6:44 to today

Men can come based on the drawing of Christ

 

[Presby02]

So you cannot apply John 6:44 to today

Men can come based on the drawing of Christ

LOL, who says? Is the drawing different? Different purpose?

I wonder where you got that silly notion from? Does choice meat ring a bell? LOL

Why is God's drawing 100% successful. (will come to me) and yet the Sons is not?

 

[Presby02]

Yes and I stated

all do not learn (having heard)

Isaiah 48:17–19 (KJV 1900) — 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, Which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! Then had thy peace been as a river, And thy righteousness as the waves of the sea: 19 Thy seed also had been as the sand, And the offspring of thy bowels like the gravel thereof; His name should not have been cut off nor destroyed from before me.

Jeremiah 32:31–33 (KJV 1900) — 31 For this city hath been to me as a provocation of mine anger and of my fury from the day that they built it even unto this day; that I should remove it from before my face, 32 Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.

All that the Father draws "WILL COME TO ME".

 

[TomL]

All that the Father draws "WILL COME TO ME".

Yes and

Only those who hear and learn are drawn

 

[TomL]

LOL, who says? Is the drawing different? Different purpose?

I wonder where you got that silly notion from? Does choice meat ring a bell? LOL

Why is God's drawing 100% successful. (will come to me) and yet the Sons is not?

Scripture

Why do you ignore it

John 12:32–33 (KJV 1900) — 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Who is drawing?

 

[Presby02]

Scripture

Why do you ignore it

John 12:32–33 (KJV 1900) — 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Who is drawing?

Right. So Gods drawing is 100% successful and Christ's drawing fails more often than not. How silly

I ask again. What difference does it make? One passage says God created all things, another said all things are created by Him and for Him. Who did the creating?

 

[TomL]

Right. So Gods drawing is 100% successful and Christ's drawing fails more often than not. How silly

I ask again. What difference does it make? One passage says God created all things, another said all things are created by Him and for Him. Who did the creating?

Um God drew Israel

Jeremiah 31:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

how did that work out

 

[Presby02]

Um God drew Israel

Jeremiah 31:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

how did that work out

You mean those already in covenant with God? Was it with a salvific purpose in mind?

So back to John 6. God's drawing is perfect, Christ's not so much. That's what the Provisionist is proposing

 

[TomL]

You mean those already in covenant with God? Was it with a salvific purpose in mind?

So back to John 6. God's drawing is perfect, Christ's not so much. That's what the Provisionist is proposing

Yes it was

sorry you are twisting the facts

Israel was drawn, taught but

Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900) — 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. 4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.



Jeremiah 32:33 (KJV 1900) — 33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.



2 Chronicles 36:15-36:16

The Lord, the God of their fathers, sent persistently to them by his messengers, because he had compassion on his people and on his dwelling place. 16But they kept mocking the messengers of God, despising his words and scoffing at his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord rose against his people, until there was no remedy.

Jeremiah 7:13

And now, because you have done all these things, declares the Lord, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer,

Jeremiah 25:3

“For twenty-three years, from the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, to this day, the word of the Lord has come to me, and I have spoken persistently to you, but you have not listened.

Jeremiah 26:5

and to listen to the words of my servants the prophets whom I send to you urgently, though you have not listened,

Jeremiah 35:15

I have sent to you all my servants the prophets, sending them persistently, saying, ‘Turn now every one of you from his evil way, and amend your deeds, and do not go after other gods to serve them, and then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to you and your fathers.’ But you did not incline your ear or listen to me. 1

1 New American Standard Bible: Cross-References (Lockman Foundation, 1995), Je 32:33.

 

[Presby02]

Yes it was

sorry you are twisting the facts

Israel was drawn, taught but

Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900) — 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. 4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.



Jeremiah 32:33 (KJV 1900) — 33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.



2 Chronicles 36:15-36:16

The Lord, the God of their fathers, sent persistently to them by his messengers, because he had compassion on his people and on his dwelling place. 16But they kept mocking the messengers of God, despising his words and scoffing at his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord rose against his people, until there was no remedy.

Jeremiah 7:13

And now, because you have done all these things, declares the Lord, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer,

Jeremiah 25:3

“For twenty-three years, from the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, to this day, the word of the Lord has come to me, and I have spoken persistently to you, but you have not listened.

Jeremiah 26:5

and to listen to the words of my servants the prophets whom I send to you urgently, though you have not listened,

Jeremiah 35:15

I have sent to you all my servants the prophets, sending them persistently, saying, ‘Turn now every one of you from his evil way, and amend your deeds, and do not go after other gods to serve them, and then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to you and your fathers.’ But you did not incline your ear or listen to me. 1

1 New American Standard Bible: Cross-References (Lockman Foundation, 1995), Je 32:33.

Were they drawn with a salvific purpose in mind?

 

[TomL]

Were they drawn with a salvific purpose in mind?

Answered already but you ignored the rest

Yes it was

sorry you are twisting the facts

Israel was drawn, taught but

Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900) — 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. 4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.



Jeremiah 32:33 (KJV 1900) — 33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.



2 Chronicles 36:15-36:16

The Lord, the God of their fathers, sent persistently to them by his messengers, because he had compassion on his people and on his dwelling place. 16But they kept mocking the messengers of God, despising his words and scoffing at his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord rose against his people, until there was no remedy.

Jeremiah 7:13

And now, because you have done all these things, declares the Lord, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer,

Jeremiah 25:3

“For twenty-three years, from the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, to this day, the word of the Lord has come to me, and I have spoken persistently to you, but you have not listened.

Jeremiah 26:5

and to listen to the words of my servants the prophets whom I send to you urgently, though you have not listened,

Jeremiah 35:15

I have sent to you all my servants the prophets, sending them persistently, saying, ‘Turn now every one of you from his evil way, and amend your deeds, and do not go after other gods to serve them, and then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to you and your fathers.’ But you did not incline your ear or listen to me. 1

1 New American Standard Bible: Cross-References (Lockman Foundation, 1995), Je 32:33.

 

[Presby02]

Answered already but you ignored the rest

Yes it was

sorry you are twisting the facts

Israel was drawn, taught but

Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900) — 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. 4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.



Jeremiah 32:33 (KJV 1900) — 33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.



2 Chronicles 36:15-36:16

The Lord, the God of their fathers, sent persistently to them by his messengers, because he had compassion on his people and on his dwelling place. 16But they kept mocking the messengers of God, despising his words and scoffing at his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord rose against his people, until there was no remedy.

Jeremiah 7:13

And now, because you have done all these things, declares the Lord, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer,

Jeremiah 25:3

“For twenty-three years, from the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, to this day, the word of the Lord has come to me, and I have spoken persistently to you, but you have not listened.

Jeremiah 26:5

and to listen to the words of my servants the prophets whom I send to you urgently, though you have not listened,

Jeremiah 35:15

I have sent to you all my servants the prophets, sending them persistently, saying, ‘Turn now every one of you from his evil way, and amend your deeds, and do not go after other gods to serve them, and then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to you and your fathers.’ But you did not incline your ear or listen to me. 1

1 New American Standard Bible: Cross-References (Lockman Foundation, 1995), Je 32:33.

Sorry, nothing about the drawing having a salvific purpose in mind.

Back to John 6 yet or is it repeat mode?

 

[TomL]

Sorry, nothing about the drawing having a salvific purpose in mind.

Back to John 6 yet or is it repeat mode?

You are in denial

Israel was drawn, taught but

Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900) — 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. 4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.

Jeremiah 32:33 (KJV 1900) — 33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.

2 Chronicles 36:15-36:16

The Lord, the God of their fathers, sent persistently to them by his messengers, because he had compassion on his people and on his dwelling place. 16But they kept mocking the messengers of God, despising his words and scoffing at his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord rose against his people, until there was no remedy.

Jeremiah 7:13
And now, because you have done all these things, declares the Lord, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer,

Jeremiah 25:3
“For twenty-three years, from the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, to this day, the word of the Lord has come to me, and I have spoken persistently to you, but you have not listened.

Jeremiah 26:5
and to listen to the words of my servants the prophets whom I send to you urgently, though you have not listened,

Jeremiah 35:15
I have sent to you all my servants the prophets, sending them persistently, saying, ‘Turn now every one of you from his evil way, and amend your deeds, and do not go after other gods to serve them, and then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to you and your fathers.’ But you did not incline your ear or listen to me. 1

1 New American Standard Bible: Cross-References (Lockman Foundation, 1995), Je 32:33.

 

[Presby02]

You are in denial

Israel was drawn, taught but

Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900) — 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. 4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.

Jeremiah 32:33 (KJV 1900) — 33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.

2 Chronicles 36:15-36:16

The Lord, the God of their fathers, sent persistently to them by his messengers, because he had compassion on his people and on his dwelling place. 16But they kept mocking the messengers of God, despising his words and scoffing at his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord rose against his people, until there was no remedy.

Jeremiah 7:13
And now, because you have done all these things, declares the Lord, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer,

Jeremiah 25:3
“For twenty-three years, from the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, to this day, the word of the Lord has come to me, and I have spoken persistently to you, but you have not listened.

Jeremiah 26:5
and to listen to the words of my servants the prophets whom I send to you urgently, though you have not listened,

Jeremiah 35:15
I have sent to you all my servants the prophets, sending them persistently, saying, ‘Turn now every one of you from his evil way, and amend your deeds, and do not go after other gods to serve them, and then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to you and your fathers.’ But you did not incline your ear or listen to me. 1

1 New American Standard Bible: Cross-References (Lockman Foundation, 1995), Je 32:33.

Nothing about it being salvific in nature. Should be easy to quote but you won't. Your cutting and pasting nonsense you got on some website ad nauseum. Having no idea what your reading
Proof texter extraordinaire.

Have a nice day.

 

[TomL]

Nothing about it being salvific in nature. Should be easy to quote but you won't. Your cutting and pasting nonsense you got on some website ad nauseum. Having no idea what your reading
Proof texter extraordinaire.

Have a nice day.

Seriously

You think God did not intend salvation for Israel

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

are you going to claim they did not know if so think again

Romans 10:19–21 (KJV 1900) — 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.