Your opening sentence proves your merely assuming. Seriously
Romans 10 mentions nothing about drawing.
John 6 the context
- Thread starter civic
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Romans 10 mentions nothing about drawing.
civic
Well-known member
Down goes their doctrine with one single biblical illustration and fact. The chosen/ elect Israel
Yes Israel was elect yet
Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
So what. Elect as a nation sure.
Teaching. God taught Israel the plan of salvation
Remember teaching is how they are drawn to Christ
those that hear and learn come to Christ
Had they heard and learned they would have been saved
Seriously
You think God did not intend salvation for Israel
Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
are you going to claim they did not know if so think again
Romans 10:19–21 (KJV 1900) — 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Did God lie when he stated he stretched out his hand all day long?
Of course not
civic
Well-known member
Yep
civic
Well-known member
Self refutation
civic
Well-known member
Yep
take down one point in tulip and it all collapses as Lorraine Boettner astutely observed.Good thing they are all still standingYep
Because they heard and learned is not why they are drawn
Were done with John I take it? Lol
civic
Well-known member
Not the tulips wilted/withered from the son and were buried underneath the mud slide from that slippery slope they were once upon.
Ya, sure. Keep telling yourself that. Some day you might actually convince yourself.Not they wilted and were buried underneath the mud slide from that slippery slope they were once upon.
Sorry context of John refutes you
John 5:46–47 (NASB 2020) — 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
John 1:6–7 (NASB 2020) — 6 A man came, one sent from God, and his name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.
John 5:36–38 (NASB 2020) — 36 “But the testimony I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 Also you do not have His word remaining in you, because you do not believe Him whom He sent.
John 5:39–40 (NASB 2020) — 39 “You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me; 40 and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 8:39–47 (NASB 2020) — 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.”42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”
Because they head and learned is not why they are drawn, it's how they are drawn. Were in John 6 remember?
Are you trying to isolate john 6 from the rest of John
If they believed Moses they would have believed Jesus
John 5:46–47 (NASB 2020) — 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
If they believed John the baptist they would have believed Jesus
John 1:6–7 (NASB 2020) — 6 A man came, one sent from God, and his name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.
If they had the word of the Father in them, they would have believed Jesus - compare to John 6:45
John 5:36–38 (NASB 2020) — 36 “But the testimony I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 Also you do not have His word remaining in you, because you do not believe Him whom He sent.
If they believed the scripture they would have beklieved Jesus
John 5:39–40 (NASB 2020) — 39 “You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me; 40 and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
If they were of God they would have believed Jesus words
John 8:39–47 (NASB 2020) — 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.”42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”
Nope. You find the context of John 6 in John 6
That being said NOWHERE in John anywhere does it say the reason someone is drawn is because the first heard and learned.
It is how
and you cannot ignore context
Are you trying to isolate john 6 from the rest of John
If they believed Moses they would have believed Jesus
John 5:46–47 (NASB 2020) — 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
If they believed John the baptist they would have believed Jesus
John 1:6–7 (NASB 2020) — 6 A man came, one sent from God, and his name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.
If they had the word of the Father in them, they would have believed Jesus - compare to John 6:45
John 5:36–38 (NASB 2020) — 36 “But the testimony I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 Also you do not have His word remaining in you, because you do not believe Him whom He sent.
If they believed the scripture they would have beklieved Jesus
John 5:39–40 (NASB 2020) — 39 “You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me; 40 and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
If they were of God they would have believed Jesus words
John 8:39–47 (NASB 2020) — 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.”42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”
And you can't ignore you have nothing. NOWHERE does it say the reason they are drawn is because they had heard and learned.
