John 6 the context

Presby02 said:
And you can't ignore you have nothing. NOWHERE does it say the reason they are drawn is because they had heard and learned.
Click to expand...
You are in denial

having admitted the hearing and learning is how they were drawn

and if you compare to the verses quoted

and you cannot ignore context

Are you trying to isolate john 6 from the rest of John

If they believed Moses they would have believed Jesus

John 5:46–47 (NASB 2020) — 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

hearing and learning from Moses would have resulted in them coming to Christ

If they believed John the baptist they would have believed Jesus

John 1:6–7 (NASB 2020) — 6 A man came, one sent from God, and his name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.

Hearing and learning from John would have caused them to come to Christ

If they had the word of the Father in them, they would have believed Jesus - compare to John 6:45

John 5:36–38 (NASB 2020) — 36 “But the testimony I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 Also you do not have His word remaining in you, because you do not believe Him whom He sent.

If they believed the scripture they would have believed Jesus

John 5:39–40 (NASB 2020) — 39 “You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me; 40 and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

If they were of God they would have believed Jesus words

John 8:39–47 (NASB 2020) — 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.”42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

if they were of God, had they believed God they would have believed Jesus

You have to ignore all that to maintain your denial
 
TomL said:
You are in denial

having admitted the hearing and learning is how they were drawn

and if you compare to the verses quoted

and you cannot ignore context

Are you trying to isolate john 6 from the rest of John

If they believed Moses they would have believed Jesus

John 5:46–47 (NASB 2020) — 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

hearing and learning from Moses would have resulted in them coming to Christ

If they believed John the baptist they would have believed Jesus

John 1:6–7 (NASB 2020) — 6 A man came, one sent from God, and his name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.

Hearing and learning from John would have caused them to come to Christ

If they had the word of the Father in them, they would have believed Jesus - compare to John 6:45

John 5:36–38 (NASB 2020) — 36 “But the testimony I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 Also you do not have His word remaining in you, because you do not believe Him whom He sent.

If they believed the scripture they would have believed Jesus

John 5:39–40 (NASB 2020) — 39 “You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me; 40 and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

If they were of God they would have believed Jesus words

John 8:39–47 (NASB 2020) — 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.”42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

if they were of God, had they believed God they would have believed Jesus

You have to ignore all that to maintain your denial
Click to expand...
No I don't. For one simple reason. NOWHERE does it say they are drawn because they had heard and learned.

What does of God mean? Are you of God before you hear and learn and are drawn?
 
Presby02 said:
No I don't. For one simple reason. NOWHERE does it say they are drawn because they had heard and learned.

What does of God mean?
Click to expand...
The text clearly notes that hearing and learning results in coming

John 6:45 (KJV 1900) — 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.


You are in denial

having admitted the hearing and learning is how they were drawn

and if you compare to the verses quoted

and you cannot ignore context

Are you trying to isolate john 6 from the rest of John

If they believed Moses they would have believed Jesus

John 5:46–47 (NASB 2020) — 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

hearing and learning from Moses would have resulted in them coming to Christ

If they believed John the baptist they would have believed Jesus

John 1:6–7 (NASB 2020) — 6 A man came, one sent from God, and his name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.

Hearing and learning from John would have caused them to come to Christ

If they had the word of the Father in them, they would have believed Jesus - compare to John 6:45

John 5:36–38 (NASB 2020) — 36 “But the testimony I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 Also you do not have His word remaining in you, because you do not believe Him whom He sent.

If they believed the scripture they would have believed Jesus

John 5:39–40 (NASB 2020) — 39 “You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me; 40 and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

If they were of God they would have believed Jesus words

John 8:39–47 (NASB 2020) — 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.”42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

if they were of God, had they believed God they would have believed Jesus

You have to ignore all that to maintain your denial
Click to expand...
 
TomL said:
The text clearly notes that hearing and learning results in coming

John 6:45 (KJV 1900) — 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Click to expand...
Exactly. That's the drawing. Not the reason they are drawn.
 
TomL said:
It is the cause of their drawing

Those who listen and learn come

those who do not learn do not

It's that simple
Click to expand...
Nope. It's is the means of their drawing or how they are drawn. It never says they heard and and learned and are therefore drawn.
 
Presby02 said:
Nope. It's is the means of their drawing or how they are drawn. It never says they heard and and learned and are therefore drawn.
Click to expand...
Yep take those blinders off even my grandkids can see it below. Out of the mouth of babes as Jesus taught :)

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me
 
civic said:
Yep take those blinders off even my grandkids can see it below. Out of the mouth of babes as Jesus taught :)

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me
Click to expand...
Exactly. Now all you need in the verse is the draw part.

So my point stands. NOWHERE does it say the reason you are drawn is because you had heard and learned.

hope this helps!!
 
civic said:
Yep take those blinders off even my grandkids can see it below. Out of the mouth of babes as Jesus taught :)

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me
Click to expand...
Get them to a optometrist right away. 😂
 
Presby02 said:
Exactly. Now all you need in the verse is the draw part.

So my point stands. NOWHERE does it say the reason you are drawn is because you had heard and learned.

hope this helps!!
Click to expand...
It's so absurd what you do to get around the word of God.

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me

Verse 4 talks about the drawing and 45 goes back and teaches what the drawing was founded on. Those who heard and learned. That still shows clearly they had free choice of will to learn or not learn. If they chose to learn and be taught they would come to Jesus. All still their choice.
 
Rockson said:
It's so absurd what you do to get around the word of God.

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me

Verse 4 talks about the drawing and 45 goes back and teaches what the drawing was founded on. Those who heard and learned. That still shows clearly they had free choice of will to learn or not learn. If they chose to learn and be taught they would come to Jesus. All still their choice.
Click to expand...
And all Gods children said , Amen !!!
 
Rockson said:
It's so absurd what you do to get around the word of God.

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me

Verse 4 talks about the drawing and 45 goes back and teaches what the drawing was founded on. Those who heard and learned. That still shows clearly they had free choice of will to learn or not learn. If they chose to learn and be taught they would come to Jesus. All still their choice.
Click to expand...
What's absurd is you and your friends continue and double down on something scripture does not say or teach.

Hearing and learning is how the are drawn. The means if you will. Not the reason they are drawn. Where does it say this is why I drew you?
 
Presby02 said:
Nope. It's is the means of their drawing or how they are drawn. It never says they heard and and learned and are therefore drawn.
Click to expand...
You are in need of some basic logic

those drawn come

those who hear and learn come

being Drawn is by hearing and learning
 
Last edited:
TomL said:
You are in need of some basic logic

those drawn come

those who hear and learn come

Drawn = hearing and learning
Click to expand...
Drawing= hearing and learning. Hearing and learning are the means by which we are drawn. Not the reason.

Nowhere does it say hearing and learning the reason you are drawn.
 

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