Were you unable to read unless the father draws him
John 6:44–45 (ESV) — 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him
John 6 the context
- Thread starter civic
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John 6:44–45 (ESV) — 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him
Exactly. So much for inherent ability then right?
Duh
No one can believe what they have not heard
Romans 10:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Did you forget with revelation they could believe
John 1:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John 5:46–47 (KJV 1900) — 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 6:45 (KJV 1900) — 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
What do you not understand?
Romans 10:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Revelation is needed
I thought we were in John 6? What happened?
"No man can come to me", inherent ability destroyed.
All who hear don't come though. John 6 says all who are drawn come.
civic
Well-known member
Yes those who listen / learn are those who are drawn and come . Listening and learning is the condition and prerequisite
Rockson
Well-known member
You cherry pick half verses and seek to build your whole foundation of thinking on so very little. Yes it was the Father's message working through John the Baptist and the message went out and people heard. To learn what they heard is another thing entirely as we can say today.....did you take the time to learn what you were taught. Some Jews did and some did not by their own choice. To those who did he drew them to the next thing of progressive revelation (at the time) and that is that Jesus is the one you now need to be hearing. Now Jesus says,
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”Jn 12:32
For you to say that Jesus is not seeking to draw all people to himself strikes right against his core passion. There should be no other Bible subject you should be afraid to misrepresent MORE than this!
But Calvinism cannot have that
That's not what it says. It never says hearing and learning is why they are drawn.
All who are drawn come. Hearing and learning are the means whereby they are drawn.
Where does it say some who hear and learn from the Father do not come and are not raised on the last day in John 6
Says that where in John 6?
civic
Well-known member
Spot on !!!
It is how they become drawn
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Either "all people" is referring to those without distinction (meaning both Jew and Greek) or Jesus failed that free art education you get by drawing a figure in a match book.
Can you deny Jesus is now doing the drawing?
Yup, the means by which they are drawn. And those drawn come and are raised on the last day.
Those who hear and learn FROM THE FATHER, come and are raised on the last day.
