Isaiah 53 the origin of PSA

I am not here to claim any "victory"-just searching after truth.
On point, we all seek the truth, 1 Corinthians 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

101G.
 
On point, we all seek the truth, 1 Corinthians 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

101G.
Psa_133:1 A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Eph_4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.


Eph_4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Amen brother.
 
Psa_133:1 A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Eph_4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Eph_4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Amen brother.
in Christ Jesus ...... Correct. even as believers we can have different views, BUT GOD VIEW IS THE ONLY CORRECT VIEW, BECAUSE IT'S HIS OWN WORDS. so LET the Holy Spirit GUIDE US in "ALL TRUTH". he has never failed us yet.... NEVER... (smile).

and one point. 101G declare he do not know it all, no I don't. but I will hear you out, just give scripture at to where you're coming from so I can examine it with the Spirit that guides all of us. for I know God do not just revealed to me only... oh no, he has many whom he reveals to. we only have to discern what has been said, and we do it by testing the "spirit" by the TRUE "SPIRIT".

I admit, I have learned some good information while on these forums, (thank you Lord Jesus), from a many of posters. so, as the scriptures states we must all humble ourselves before God and LEARN.

just as he did with his apostles. what he gave Peter, he didn't give Paul, or James, Jude. but when we put it all together, we have the big picture..... so, all of us have something to contribute, just be aware, for Satan himself still deceives as an angel of LIGHT.

so be blessed and stay watchmen on the wall.

Peace and blessing in Christ Jesus.

101G.

101G.
 
and one point. 101G declare he do not know it all, no I don't. but I will hear you out, just give scripture at to where you're coming from so I can examine it with the Spirit that guides all of us. for I know God do not just revealed to me only... oh no, he has many whom he reveals to. we only have to discern what has been said, and we do it by testing the "spirit" by the TRUE "SPIRIT".
Glad to hear your declaration that you don't know it all-as I don't.

1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I think you may have noticed that I use and work with the Scriptures and try to shun opinions. You have a talent and so am I.

Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Together we make the most of what YHVH has given us-in the sphere of the Ruach Ha-Kodesh and Jesus Christ.

Shalom @101G


 
Besides the "fables", now you bring in Philo who the Church never accepted and Origen who the Church excommunicated. Your appeal to misguided witnesses shows just how far off you are. Not only that but you sided with the Masoretes who famously had no second thoughts against misrepresenting the OT word of God. They deliberately backtracked from the LXX word "virgin" to "maiden" to deliberately throw Christians off the true path. They were certainly a conniving bunch.

The fact remains that the Apostles overwhelmingly endorsed the LXX and there is nothing you can say or do against that fact.
Not so-

The term "self-serving" comes to mind. Origen, an early church father (died 232 CE) tried to piece together a decent translation by putting 6 different versions side by side (called the Hexapla).

Here is what HE says about how bad the Septuagint had become "we are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery." Origen, A Letter from Origen to Africanus, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 4.

Didn't know about this, did you?
 
Not so-

The term "self-serving" comes to mind. Origen, an early church father (died 232 CE) tried to piece together a decent translation by putting 6 different versions side by side (called the Hexapla).

Here is what HE says about how bad the Septuagint had become "we are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery." Origen, A Letter from Origen to Africanus, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 4.

Didn't know about this, did you?
Masoretic text, (from Hebrew masoreth, “tradition”), traditional Hebrew text of the Jewish Bible, meticulously assembled and codified, and supplied with diacritical marks to enable correct pronunciation. This monumental work was begun around the 6th century AD and completed in the 10th by scholars at Talmudic academies in Babylonia and Palestine, in an effort to reproduce, as far as possible, the original text of the Hebrew Old Testament. Their intention was not to interpret the meaning of the Scriptures but to transmit to future generations the authentic Word of God. To this end they gathered manuscripts and whatever oral traditions were available to them.

The Masoretic text that resulted from their work shows that every word and every letter was checked with care. In Hebrew or Aramaic, they called attention to strange spellings and unusual grammar and noted discrepancies in various texts. Since texts traditionally omitted vowels in writing, the Masoretes introduced vowel signs to guarantee correct pronunciation. Among the various systems of vocalization that were invented, the one fashioned in the city of Tiberias, Galilee, eventually gained ascendancy. In addition, signs for stress and pause were added to the text to facilitate public reading of the Scriptures in the synagogue.

When the final codification of each section was complete, the Masoretes not only counted and noted down the total number of verses, words, and letters in the text but further indicated which verse, which word, and which letter marked the centre of the text. In this way any future emendation could be detected. The rigorous care given the Masoretic text in its preparation is credited for the remarkable consistency found in Old Testament Hebrew texts since that time. The Masoretic work enjoyed an absolute monopoly for 600 years, and experts have been astonished at the fidelity of the earliest printed version (late 15th century) to the earliest surviving codices (late 9th century). The Masoretic text is universally accepted as the authentic Hebrew Bible.
 
Not so-

The term "self-serving" comes to mind. Origen, an early church father (died 232 CE) tried to piece together a decent translation by putting 6 different versions side by side (called the Hexapla).

Here is what HE says about how bad the Septuagint had become "we are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery." Origen, A Letter from Origen to Africanus, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 4.

Didn't know about this, did you?
Again, you are willing to present a testimony from a person who the Church anathemized? Are you seriously presenting an anathemized witness to plead your case?

Also, what about all the other Church Fathers that did extensively quote from the Greek OT at about that time? Saint Basil, Saint Gregory, Saint Chrysostome, etc....? Were they moaning about the Greek OT also?
 
From the March-April 2022 Let the Stones Speak Magazine Issue
The Masoretic Text is widely accepted as the authoritative text of the Hebrew Bible. It is the basis for the Jewish Publication Society’s translation of the Tanakh, as well as most Protestant Christian versions, including the monumental Authorized King James Version of 1611.

However, many scholars today question its accuracy.
After all, the Hebrew Bible was originally penned by nearly 40 different authors between the 15th and 5th centuries b.c.e., a period of roughly 1,000 years. That means the oldest books in the canon, the Torah and the book of Job, have been passed down for over 3,000 years—most of that time laboriously copied out by hand.

How do we know that the modern Masoretic Text matches the original writings of the Hebrew prophets and patriarchs? How do we know the Bible has accurately survived its 3,000-year journey?


The answers to these questions have immense impact on the field of archaeology. After all, archaeologists have been using the Bible to interpret their finds for centuries (though this approach has recently fallen out of fashion). If scribal editorializations corrupted the eyewitness accounts in the Bible, that would radically alter our interpretation of literally thousands of archaeological discoveries.

Of course, to Bible believers, there is no controversy. God inspired the Bible; therefore, He must also have ensured its accurate transmission. The Bible itself endorses this view. It explicitly states in hundreds of passages that God inspired the writings of Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah and all the other writers. Furthermore, the Christian New Testament even records that “the oracles of God”—including the Hebrew Bible—were committed to the tribe of Judah for careful preservation.

To these people, the fact that a book could be written by so many different authors over a millennium—and maintain complete narrative and doctrinal consistency—proves its divine authorship.

But of course, Bible skeptics don’t believe in God. They rely on material evidence alone. Where believers see a miracle, skeptics see only a reason to doubt. If the Bible were truly assembled by so many people so long ago, they reason, surely its text was corrupted or miscopied at some point. To skeptics, the Bible couldn’t have been copied perfectly for three millenniums because that would have taken a miracle—and besides, there is not enough material evidence to prove it.

Or is there?


The Burden of Proof
To a certain extent, the skeptics have a point. Not enough manuscripts have survived, especially from the time period of the earliest biblical texts, to prove that every word of the Masoretic manuscripts matches the original text. The Dead Sea Scrolls are the earliest significant biblical manuscript, and these date as early as the third and second centuries b.c.e. A few fragments have survived from much earlier than that (see sidebar, page 28), but nothing large enough to provide a significant standard for textual comparison. The earliest complete copy of the Hebrew Bible is the Leningrad Codex, a document based on the Masoretic Text, but this only dates as early as c.e. 1008.

Does that mean we should assume our modern biblical text is faulty, unreliable and filled with textual errors compounded over thousands of years of transmission? Not at all.


For starters, demanding enough material evidence to “prove” the Bible’s accurate transmission is unreasonable. It is simply unscientific. No ancient document has ever been held to such a standard. Consider the writings of Greek philosopher Plato (composed between 427 and 347 b.c.e.). Our earliest complete manuscript of Plato’s works was copied roughly 12 centuries after the author’s death—around c.e. 900 (though, as with the Hebrew Bible, piecemeal fragments of the texts have been found during the intervening period). Yet no reasonable scholar questions the reliability of modern Platonic text on any significant point. Almost all assume Plato’s works were copied accurately during that 1,200-year gap, despite the fact there is little evidence and no manuscripts to prove it.

And Plato is no outlier. Virtually every work of antiquity has a similar time gap between its original composition and the earliest-surviving, complete manuscript. For Herodotus’s Histories, the gap is 1,350 years. For Thucydides’s The History of the Peloponnesian War, it is 1,300 years. About 1,200 years separate our earliest manuscript of Aristotle’s works and the death of the author in 322 b.c.e. And for Demosthenes’s speeches, the gap is 1,400 years. Our best documented ancient classic (outside the Bible) is Homer’s Iliad. Yet even for this text, the gap between the original composition and the earliest surviving manuscript is 400 years.

For these ancient writings, scholars accept, virtually without proof, that our modern manuscripts are reliable. They accept that these works were copied accurately for centuries. They accept that Plato really wrote The Republic, for example, and that our modern text of this work, more or less, matches the original.

In essence, the prevailing philosophy of ancient textual criticism has been this: A manuscript can be assumed reliable unless proved otherwise. Why should it be any different for the Bible? To use a different standard for the Bible would be unfair, arbitrary and unscientific.

The Masoretic Text, universally considered the authoritative Hebrew manuscript (in particular for its unparalleled copying rituals, as we will see below), can be assumed reliable unless solid evidence proves otherwise—not the other way around. Disagree with this basic premise, and one must consider not only the Bible, but our entire textual record of the ancient world, unreliable.

With this standard in mind, what does the evidence say? Does it show that the Masoretic Text was copied sloppily, carelessly or by agenda-driven scribes eager to insert their own beliefs into the text? Far from it. In fact, every indication is that for more than three millenniums, the Scriptures were copied carefully, precisely and with scrupulous attention to detail.


Because of their work on the Massorah, the scholars in Tiberias earned the name “Masoretes” or “Masorites,” and the authoritative biblical text they produced (work that spanned a 500-year window, from the fifth to 10th centuries c.e.) was called the Masoretic Text. The earliest and latest Masoretic manuscripts match one another with a degree of precision that still astonishes scholars.

The Masoretic Text should be regarded as the most accurately copied manuscript in human history. Has any other book from antiquity formed the political, religious and legal core of a whole nation? Was a death sentence ever issued on the basis of a single turn of phrase from Homer’s Iliad? Has anyone bothered to count the letters of Plato’s Republic, calculate the middle word of Herodotus’s Histories, or wash his entire body before writing the name of Socrates?

Josephus wrote about the exactness of his people when dealing with the Bible. “[Our people have been] seen to endure racks and deaths of all kinds upon the theaters, that they may not be obliged to say one word against our laws and the records that contain them; whereas there are none at all among the Greeks who would undergo the least harm on that account” (op cit).

Evidence indicates that the Bible was transmitted far more meticulously, carefully and accurately than any other ancient book!

How's this for "critical thinking"
 
Again, you are willing to present a testimony from a person who the Church anathemized? Are you seriously presenting an anathemized witness to plead your case?

Also, what about all the other Church Fathers that did extensively quote from the Greek OT at about that time? Saint Basil, Saint Gregory, Saint Chrysostome, etc....? Were they moaning about the Greek OT also?

And exactly WHY was Origin anathemized?

 

And exactly WHY was Origin anathemized?

Are you so constrained in providing witnesses that you cannot forward any other witness that has not been anathemized? There are dozens more that I will accept as testimony. Where are they that plead your case?
 
Are you so constrained in providing witnesses that you cannot forward any other witness that has not been anathemized? There are dozens more that I will accept as testimony. Where are they that plead your case?
Not constrained-if I was Origin I would have said the same-

"we are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery." Origen, A Letter from Origen to Africanus, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 4.
 
Not constrained-if I was Origin I would have said the same-

"we are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery." Origen, A Letter from Origen to Africanus, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 4.
Unfortunately for you, that does not line up with what we have from the Cappadocian Fathers. It's up to you to prove your case. I'm still waiting for credible witnesses from you. When will you provide even one credible witness?
 
4. Preferring the Septuagint
When the Early Church considered the differences between the Septuagint and the MT Hebrew version, they tended to dismiss the MT Hebrew as a corrupted text. St. Irenaeus (d. 202) argued that point (Against Heresies, Book 3, Chap 21, #3); and Origen (d. 253) made similar comments (Letter to Africanus, #9).

The rationale for their position was an unthinkable alternative. If “all the Churches” (as Origen put it) were following the Apostolic tradition of using the Septuagint, then the Septuagint must be the authentic Scripture; otherwise, divine providence would have failed in allowing the whole Church to have the wrong Bible. Therefore, differences between the LXX and MT must be due to corruption of the MT Hebrew version of the text.

The superiority of the Septuagint continues to be argued today, especially by Orthodox Churches where it is still considered the authentic Scripture. Arguments can include the claim that the Septuagint timelines are more plausible than the MT Hebrew version, and so the Septuagint is more reliable as a biblical text than the MT Hebrew Bible.

Biblical scholars know that some parts of the Hebrew text have indeed been corrupted, especially in the book of Samuel. In MT, Hannah brought 3 bulls as a sacrifice. The Septuagint says that she brought a single three-year-old bull (LXX 1 Samuel 1:24). That LXX reading can be seen in Hebrew texts from Qumran (e.g., 4QSama). So many modern Bible translations quietly change the MT Hebrew reading to the Septuagint version of Hannah’s bull(s). (For example, see New American Bible 1 Samuel 1:24).

However, archaeological discoveries at Qumran, Masada, Wadi Murabba’at, Wadi Sdeir, Nahal Hever, Nachal Arugot and Nachal Ze’elim show that there is evidence to justify thinking that, on the whole, the majority of the MT Hebrew text has been faithfully transmitted. This means that it is no longer credible to claim that differences between the LXX and MT can be explained away as due to corruptions throughout the MT Hebrew version.

5. Preferring the MT Hebrew
If differences between the Septuagint and MT Hebrew version cannot be explained by blaming the MT, then could it be the Septuagint that is the corrupted text?

Historically, this position sometimes appeared in Protestant Reformation polemics. Modern versions of the argument tend to blame dubiously inclined Catholics (or demons) for inventing the Septuagint to try and discredit the MT Hebrew Bible. (See Chick Publications and the extraordinary claims in Answers to Your Bible Version Questions).

As a result of discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, we can see that that kind of argument is wrong. In Cave 4 at Qumran there is a Hebrew version of Jeremiah (4Q Jeremiah B) and a Hebrew version of Samuel (4QSama) which are closer to the Septuagint than they are to the MT Hebrew Bible. (For more examples see “Versions and Variants in the Old Testament Text”.) Estimates vary but it could be that around 1/2 the Hebrew fragments found at Qumran are closer to Septuagint versions of the Scriptures.

What this means is that it is becoming implausible to argue that the MT Hebrew text is a more ancient or more original version of the Bible, and that the LXX is just a later corrupt Greek translation of it. At Qumran we seem to have evidence contemporaneous with Jesus, of both the LXX and MT versions of biblical books existing in Hebrew, simultaneously and side by side.

As a result of that fact, biblical scholars such as Professor Emanuel Tov are now arguing that the Septuagint should be recognized as being an alternative textual tradition, and thus as having “equal status” to the MT Hebrew text. (See “The Septuagint Translation of the Hebrew Bible”.)

6. Different Hebrew Versions
If the MT Hebrew version and the LXX version are indeed alternative or “equal” versions of the Hebrew texts, then that leads to two possible conclusions.

One radical response is to argue that there can only be a single version of an inspired Scripture so the MT and the LXX must both be viewed as corrupted versions of a more primitive Urtext or Vorlage version of the Scriptural texts. As we do not have that more primitive text, then it means that no modern Christian (or Jew) has access to the authentic original inspired Scriptures.

But there is no evidence that a more primitive original version of (inspired) biblical books existed, from which the MT and LXX both diverge. There is also no reason to think that a Revelation can only be channeled in a single Scriptural version. After all, Christians have four versions of Jesus’ life in the New Testament.

So a very different response to a recognition that the LXX and MT are alternative or equal versions of Scriptural texts, could be to accept that they both have an enduring significance for Christians, and that the message of Revelation is therefore to be understood partly in comparing and contrasting the versions of the texts. (See Interview with Timothy Law.)
 
Unfortunately for you, that does not line up with what we have from the Cappadocian Fathers. It's up to you to prove your case. I'm still waiting for credible witnesses from you. When will you provide even one credible witness?
Time will come-when I do have credible witnesses @synergy since I'm never too old to learn-till then let us stay focused on Christ Jesus.
 
4. Preferring the Septuagint
When the Early Church considered the differences between the Septuagint and the MT Hebrew version, they tended to dismiss the MT Hebrew as a corrupted text. St. Irenaeus (d. 202) argued that point (Against Heresies, Book 3, Chap 21, #3); and Origen (d. 253) made similar comments (Letter to Africanus, #9).

The rationale for their position was an unthinkable alternative. If “all the Churches” (as Origen put it) were following the Apostolic tradition of using the Septuagint, then the Septuagint must be the authentic Scripture; otherwise, divine providence would have failed in allowing the whole Church to have the wrong Bible. Therefore, differences between the LXX and MT must be due to corruption of the MT Hebrew version of the text.

The superiority of the Septuagint continues to be argued today, especially by Orthodox Churches where it is still considered the authentic Scripture. Arguments can include the claim that the Septuagint timelines are more plausible than the MT Hebrew version, and so the Septuagint is more reliable as a biblical text than the MT Hebrew Bible.

Biblical scholars know that some parts of the Hebrew text have indeed been corrupted, especially in the book of Samuel. In MT, Hannah brought 3 bulls as a sacrifice. The Septuagint says that she brought a single three-year-old bull (LXX 1 Samuel 1:24). That LXX reading can be seen in Hebrew texts from Qumran (e.g., 4QSama). So many modern Bible translations quietly change the MT Hebrew reading to the Septuagint version of Hannah’s bull(s). (For example, see New American Bible 1 Samuel 1:24).

However, archaeological discoveries at Qumran, Masada, Wadi Murabba’at, Wadi Sdeir, Nahal Hever, Nachal Arugot and Nachal Ze’elim show that there is evidence to justify thinking that, on the whole, the majority of the MT Hebrew text has been faithfully transmitted. This means that it is no longer credible to claim that differences between the LXX and MT can be explained away as due to corruptions throughout the MT Hebrew version.

5. Preferring the MT Hebrew
If differences between the Septuagint and MT Hebrew version cannot be explained by blaming the MT, then could it be the Septuagint that is the corrupted text?

Historically, this position sometimes appeared in Protestant Reformation polemics. Modern versions of the argument tend to blame dubiously inclined Catholics (or demons) for inventing the Septuagint to try and discredit the MT Hebrew Bible. (See Chick Publications and the extraordinary claims in Answers to Your Bible Version Questions).

As a result of discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, we can see that that kind of argument is wrong. In Cave 4 at Qumran there is a Hebrew version of Jeremiah (4Q Jeremiah B) and a Hebrew version of Samuel (4QSama) which are closer to the Septuagint than they are to the MT Hebrew Bible. (For more examples see “Versions and Variants in the Old Testament Text”.) Estimates vary but it could be that around 1/2 the Hebrew fragments found at Qumran are closer to Septuagint versions of the Scriptures.

What this means is that it is becoming implausible to argue that the MT Hebrew text is a more ancient or more original version of the Bible, and that the LXX is just a later corrupt Greek translation of it. At Qumran we seem to have evidence contemporaneous with Jesus, of both the LXX and MT versions of biblical books existing in Hebrew, simultaneously and side by side.

As a re
sult of that fact, biblical scholars such as Professor Emanuel Tov are now arguing that the Septuagint should be recognized as being an alternative textual tradition, and thus as having “equal status” to the MT Hebrew text. (See “The Septuagint Translation of the Hebrew Bible”.)


6. Different Hebrew Versions
If the MT Hebrew version and the LXX version are indeed alternative or “equal” versions of the Hebrew texts, then that leads to two possible conclusions.

One radical response is to argue that there can only be a single version of an inspired Scripture so the MT and the LXX must both be viewed as corrupted versions of a more primitive Urtext or Vorlage version of the Scriptural texts. As we do not have that more primitive text, then it means that no modern Christian (or Jew) has access to the authentic original inspired Scriptures.

But there is no evidence that a more primitive original version of (inspired) biblical books existed, from which the MT and LXX both diverge. There is also no reason to think that a Revelation can only be channeled in a single Scriptural version. After all, Christians have four versions of Jesus’ life in the New Testament.

So a very different response to a recognition that the LXX and MT are alternative or equal versions of Scriptural texts, could be to accept that they both have an enduring significance for Christians, and that the message of Revelation is therefore to be understood partly in comparing and contrasting the versions of the texts. (See Interview with Timothy Law.)
I see that the authors of the text you quoted from and which I marked in red are slowly coming around to acknowledging the LXX that the Apostles overwhelmingly quoted from.

Also, if the Jews conserved the Bible so wonderfully then why did they rip out all the OT books that the Hellenized Jews wrote in Greek? Why such hatred for their Hellenized Jews colleagues? Could it be that the Jews detested the Hellenized Jews for converting to Christianity? Could it be that the Jews refused to believe what the Greek OT text wrote about Christ as being born of a virgin?
 
I see that the authors of the text you quoted from and which I marked in red are slowly coming around to acknowledging the LXX that the Apostles overwhelmingly quoted from.

Also, if the Jews conserved the Bible so wonderfully then why did they rip out all the OT books that the Hellenized Jews wrote in Greek? Why such hatred for their Hellenized Jews colleagues? Could it be that the Jews detested the Hellenized Jews for converting to Christianity? Could it be that the Jews refused to believe what the Greek OT text wrote about Christ as being born of a virgin?
Yes-and what LXX did the Apostles overwhelmingly quote from?
overwhelmingly
 
We don't have the originals for both the Greek NT and the Greek OT. So what are you alluding to?
We don't have the originals for any book of the bible. So its a mute argument for those who oppose the LXX. The fact remains there are word for word old testament quotes in the NT that do not align with the Hebrew but do align with the Greek- LXX. So there is doubt it was being used in the Greek speaking Romans empire during the time of Jesus and the Apostles. It was the primary language just as English is our primary language in the U.S. To deny this lets us know there is an ulterior motive behind the opposition.
 
We don't have the originals for both the Greek NT and the Greek OT. So what are you alluding to?
Nothing-just thinking out loudly.

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isa 53:4 This one [our sins bore], and on account of us he was grieved. And we considered him to be for misery, and for calamity by God, and for ill treatment.

Isa 53:4 He bears our sins, and is pained for us: yet we accounted him to be in trouble, and in suffering, and in affliction.

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our sufferings, and nasah (carried [Vayikra 16:22; Yeshayah 53:12)] our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, [i.e., like a leper is stricken] smitten of G-d, and afflicted [see verse 8 below].

אכן חלינו הוא נשׂא ומכאבינו סבלם ואנחנו חשׁבנהו נגוע מכה אלהים ומענה׃

Now-since we have no originals-which one is the correct verse?
 
We don't have the originals for any book of the bible. So its a mute argument for those who oppose the LXX. The fact remains there are word for word old testament quotes in the NT that do not align with the Hebrew but do align with the Greek- LXX. So there is doubt it was being used in the Greek speaking Romans empire during the time of Jesus and the Apostles. It was the primary language just as English is our primary language in the U.S. To deny this lets us know there is an ulterior motive behind the opposition.
Almost like you force me by you saying -"anyone who denies this-" So if I deny this I have an ulterior motive?
 
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