Isaiah 53 the origin of PSA

That a fact?
It's time for you to stand "stand on [your] one foot and learn from" the Apostles. I'm just a flea-bitten messenger.
What have election to do with the LXX?
God had elected the spreading of many Jews throughout the Roman Empire to serve as a key part in the rapid spread of the Gospel to the Greek-speaking West. Because the Jews already knew the Greek Old Testament (LXX), the background was set and the timing was perfect for the gospel to spread throughout the nations.

So, when James wrote in his Epistle that he was writing to “the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad” (James 1:1), he was clearly writing to Jewish Christians whom God had scattered throughout the Roman Empire. 1 Peter 1-2 clearly uses the word elect to refer to the Greek speaking Jewish Diaspora dispersed throughout the provinces in Asia Minor. Armed with the Greek OT, the Greek speaking Jewish Christian converts proved to be a formidable force in the spread of the Gospel to the Greek speaking Eastern Roman Empire.
 
It's time for you to stand "stand on [your] one foot and learn from" the Apostles. I'm just a flea-bitten messenger.
Correct-learning from the Apostles in the Common Vernacular-Koine Greek and not from the yeshiva of Shammai and Hillel.
 
God had elected the spreading of many Jews throughout the Roman Empire to serve as a key part in the rapid spread of the Gospel to the Greek-speaking West. Because the Jews already knew the Greek Old Testament (LXX), the background was set and the timing was perfect for the gospel to spread throughout the nations.
THE BIBLE - A "SACRED" BOOK
The precise origin and early history of the Septuagint has been found to defy verification.1
It has
remained shrouded in fable and contradiction. Despite the fact that the whole truth cannot be
established, many particulars have been gleaned and many parts of the puzzle unraveled.
The LXX was unmistakably the labor of men not possessing that almost superstitious veneration for the
letter of Scripture which characterized the Hebrews of Palestine. A Palestinian Jew would never have
dared to add, take from, or alter a single letter of the "Original" text. The translators of the LXX, in
marked contrast, are notorious for: Hellenizing and modernizing tendencies, simplifying "difficult"
passages, altering the text by deleting what they regarded as apparent "contradictions", and adapting
their version to the prevailing opinions of the age so as to commend it to the learning and the culture of
the time.


Hence, we find the centenary additions to the lives of the Patriarchs in order to bring the
chronology into closer accord with the notions of antiquity that prevailed in Egypt at that time (see p. 11).

Like the modern critic, the LXX translator did not hesitate to "correct" the record and to "emend" the text
in order to make it speak what he thought it ought to say.

An irreconcilable difference existed between the translators (or translator!) of the LXX and the Hebrews
of Palestine with respect to the frame of reference that each took with regard to the "Written Word".
Like
the true Church (in its broadest sense which includes the O.T. faithful), the Palestinian Jews have
historically viewed the Written Word as a "sacred" book.

By sacred we mean that the text of the Book is
viewed by its adherents as being that of final authority. The status of the sacred text is fixed and absolute
– one does not add to or subtract from it. It is seen as sacred because the entire content is accepted as
having been given to the people as a deposit by the Deity.

The Alexandrian mind had a very different frame of reference toward the Scriptures. Immersed as they
were in Greek culture, they embraced the Greek attitude of an allegorical approach toward all "Holy
Writings". This melting pot of various Greek philosophies and divers religious beliefs was a "stronghold"
of paganism.

When the Christians initially arrived there in the first century, this allegorical
interpretation methodology was continuing to develop and flourish, especially under Philo of Alexandria
(see p. 5) who was at the height of his influence.

As a literalist, the Palestinian Jew was always very deeply concerned over the precise wording of the text
since his interpretation and understanding were totally dependent upon it. Such was not the case with
the allegorist. Since an allegorist imposes his own views on the text anyway, he would have little or no
compunction in altering it. For such a person, precise wording is not of paramount concern.
The result was that, for the Alexandrians, the Old Testament (also the New) came to be viewed merely
as a "religious"
2
book. By "religious" we mean a book which still retains a certain "traditional specialness"
but it has lost its status as sacred.

This has happened because the text has been removed from its original
matrix. Its interpretations and dimensions (the canon) are no longer determined exclusively by Levitical
scribes and priests – and later, by churchmen and theologians.
1 Gooding, The New Bible Dictionary, op. cit., p. 1258 (Texts-Versions). Gooding states that the origin is
"still debated".
2 Theodore P. Letis, "Brevard Childs and the Protestant Dogmaticians: A Window to a New Paradigm",
Bulletin of the Institute for Reformation Biblical Studies", 2:1, (Fort Wayne, IN: 1991), pp. 4-8. This
distinction has been adapted from Letis’ article. As of the printing of the 3rd edition of The Septuagint:
A Critical Analysis (1994), Letis was in the final stages of completing his doctorate at the University
of Edinburgh (Scotland).

Shalom.
 
An aside @synergy


Greek or Hebrew -- which is most authentic? The "Septuagint"



Picture
There are missionaries who tout early Greek translations of the T'nach (Jewish bible) as superior to the Hebrew. How one can insist that a translation of anything is superior to original is mind boggling -- would a Russian translation of Shakespear's Hamlet ("To be or not to be, that is the question?") as "to be alive or dead -- which is better" -- it "loses something in the translation" is an understatement!

Most missionaries who make this claim are woefully ignorant of Hebrew. I have read some of them saying the Septuagint (the name given to ancient Greek translations of the Jewish bible) is superior because it is "1000 years older than the Masoretic Text."

The thought "well, duh" comes to mind.

The Masoretic Text is NOT the Hebrew from ancient times -- the Masoretic text is not the oldest Hebrew we have either! What is the Masoretic text?


Hebrew is written only with consonants (there are no vowels). Think of how hard it would be to read English if words were written without vowels. Cn y rd ths sntnc (can you read this sentence)?

For learned Jews this is not a problem, as the vowel sounds are obvious in context. When it comes to the bible, we've been reading it for thousands of years without written vowels -- and if you ever attend a Synagogue where the Torah is read you will note if a reader "stumbles" on pronouncing a word many voices will correct him. . . everyone KNOWS the Torah!

There are lesser educated Jews, though -- and in the Diaspora (exile) Hebrew was used primarily in prayer and not in every day use. The Masoretes came up with their vowel notation method between the 8th and 12th centuries CE.

The oldest versions of the T'nach are in Hebrew, and one can only speculate as to why missionaries insist on referencing the Masoretic Text (MT) - ignorance of Hebrew is the most likely answer. . .

The LXX (Septuagint) was a translation ONLY of the תּוֹרָה / Torah / Five Books of Moses / Pentateuch (not נְבִיאִים / Nevi'im / Prophets and כְּתוּבִים / Ketuvim / Writings) were not part of the original Septuagint -- so the missionaries who tout the "Septuagint" reference Psalms or Isaiah -- and apparently are ignorant that they were not found in the Septuagint at all (since they are not in the Torah).

What is today called the Septuagint (which is the entire Jewish bible in Greek) are translations into Greek from persons unknown at times unknown.

There was no quality assurance and as a result they became heavily corrupted over time. By the 5th century the Christians gave up on the LXX / Septuagint because it was so corrupt -- so why people now are debating this is really interesting.

The term "self-serving" comes to mind. Origen, an early church father (died 232 CE) tried to piece together a decent translation by putting 6 different versions side by side (called the Hexapla).

Here is what HE says about how bad the Septuagint had become "we are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery." Origen, A Letter from Origen to Africanus, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 4.

There is also St. Jerome (early 5th century) who decided to re-translate from the Hebrew rather than rely on the Septuagint saying: "I was stimulated to undertake the task by the zeal of Origen, who blended (the Septuagint) with the old edition Theodotions translation."


Many of the "pro-Septuagint" missionaries are also "King James" translation enthusiasts. Yet the translators of the KJV (King James) also noted that the Septuagint (Greek translation) was corrupt.

In the preface to the original KJV they wrote: "It is certain, that that Translation (e.g., the Septuagint) was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correction . . . . . the Translation of the Seventy (the Septuagint / LXX) was allowed to pass for current. Notwithstanding, though it was commended generally, yet it did not fully content the learned, no not of the Jews. For not long after (Jesus), Aquila fell in hand with a new Translation, and after him Theodotion, and after him Symmachus; yea, there was a fifth and a sixth edition, the Authors whereof were not known."

Yup-not being facetious but we ALL have much to learn-mostly from the Internet, of
course-right @synergy?
 
Last edited:
The LXX was unmistakably the labor of men not possessing that almost superstitious veneration for the
letter of Scripture which characterized the Hebrews of Palestine. A Palestinian Jew would never have
dared to add, take from, or alter a single letter of the "Original" text.

1. Given the current conflict....... "you have got to love" this quote.

"Palestinian Jew".......

Surely you know better than this. Just who are you quoting here?

2. The MT is absolute evidence that is deceptively false. Not alter a single letter..... Geesh.....
 
An aside @synergy


Greek or Hebrew -- which is most authentic? The "Septuagint"



Picture
There are missionaries who tout early Greek translations of the T'nach (Jewish bible) as superior to the Hebrew. How one can insist that a translation of anything is superior to original is mind boggling -- would a Russian translation of Shakespear's Hamlet ("To be or not to be, that is the question?") as "to be alive or dead -- which is better" -- it "loses something in the translation" is an understatement!

Most missionaries who make this claim are woefully ignorant of Hebrew. I have read some of them saying the Septuagint (the name given to ancient Greek translations of the Jewish bible) is superior because it is "1000 years older than the Masoretic Text."

The thought "well, duh" comes to mind.

The Masoretic Text is NOT the Hebrew from ancient times -- the Masoretic text is not the oldest Hebrew we have either! What is the Masoretic text?


Hebrew is written only with consonants (there are no vowels). Think of how hard it would be to read English if words were written without vowels. Cn y rd ths sntnc (can you read this sentence)?

For learned Jews this is not a problem, as the vowel sounds are obvious in context. When it comes to the bible, we've been reading it for thousands of years without written vowels -- and if you ever attend a Synagogue where the Torah is read you will note if a reader "stumbles" on pronouncing a word many voices will correct him. . . everyone KNOWS the Torah!

There are lesser educated Jews, though -- and in the Diaspora (exile) Hebrew was used primarily in prayer and not in every day use. The Masoretes came up with their vowel notation method between the 8th and 12th centuries CE.

The oldest versions of the T'nach are in Hebrew, and one can only speculate as to why missionaries insist on referencing the Masoretic Text (MT) - ignorance of Hebrew is the most likely answer. . .

The LXX (Septuagint) was a translation ONLY of the תּוֹרָה / Torah / Five Books of Moses / Pentateuch (not נְבִיאִים / Nevi'im / Prophets and כְּתוּבִים / Ketuvim / Writings) were not part of the original Septuagint -- so the missionaries who tout the "Septuagint" reference Psalms or Isaiah -- and apparently are ignorant that they were not found in the Septuagint at all (since they are not in the Torah).

What is today called the Septuagint (which is the entire Jewish bible in Greek) are translations into Greek from persons unknown at times unknown.

There was no quality assurance and as a result they became heavily corrupted over time. By the 5th century the Christians gave up on the LXX / Septuagint because it was so corrupt -- so why people now are debating this is really interesting.

The term "self-serving" comes to mind. Origen, an early church father (died 232 CE) tried to piece together a decent translation by putting 6 different versions side by side (called the Hexapla).

Here is what HE says about how bad the Septuagint had become "we are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery." Origen, A Letter from Origen to Africanus, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 4.

There is also St. Jerome (early 5th century) who decided to re-translate from the Hebrew rather than rely on the Septuagint saying: "I was stimulated to undertake the task by the zeal of Origen, who blended (the Septuagint) with the old edition Theodotions translation."


Many of the "pro-Septuagint" missionaries are also "King James" translation enthusiasts. Yet the translators of the KJV (King James) also noted that the Septuagint (Greek translation) was corrupt.

In the preface to the original KJV they wrote: "It is certain, that that Translation (e.g., the Septuagint) was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correction . . . . . the Translation of the Seventy (the Septuagint / LXX) was allowed to pass for current. Notwithstanding, though it was commended generally, yet it did not fully content the learned, no not of the Jews. For not long after (Jesus), Aquila fell in hand with a new Translation, and after him Theodotion, and after him Symmachus; yea, there was a fifth and a sixth edition, the Authors whereof were not known."

Yup-not being facetious but we ALL have much to learn-mostly from the Internet, of
course-right @synergy?

From Emanuel Tov.


Textual and literary analysis of Hebrew Scripture. The LXX was translated from a Hebrew text that differed, often greatly, from MT. This is not surprising, since in antiquity many differing copies of the Hebrew Scripture text were in circulation. Some of these differences are minor, while others involve a whole paragraph, chapter, or even book. All these copies contain “Scripture.”
 
An aside @synergy


Greek or Hebrew -- which is most authentic? The "Septuagint"



Picture
There are missionaries who tout early Greek translations of the T'nach (Jewish bible) as superior to the Hebrew. How one can insist that a translation of anything is superior to original is mind boggling -- would a Russian translation of Shakespear's Hamlet ("To be or not to be, that is the question?") as "to be alive or dead -- which is better" -- it "loses something in the translation" is an understatement!

Most missionaries who make this claim are woefully ignorant of Hebrew. I have read some of them saying the Septuagint (the name given to ancient Greek translations of the Jewish bible) is superior because it is "1000 years older than the Masoretic Text."

The thought "well, duh" comes to mind.

The Masoretic Text is NOT the Hebrew from ancient times -- the Masoretic text is not the oldest Hebrew we have either! What is the Masoretic text?


Hebrew is written only with consonants (there are no vowels). Think of how hard it would be to read English if words were written without vowels. Cn y rd ths sntnc (can you read this sentence)?

For learned Jews this is not a problem, as the vowel sounds are obvious in context. When it comes to the bible, we've been reading it for thousands of years without written vowels -- and if you ever attend a Synagogue where the Torah is read you will note if a reader "stumbles" on pronouncing a word many voices will correct him. . . everyone KNOWS the Torah!

There are lesser educated Jews, though -- and in the Diaspora (exile) Hebrew was used primarily in prayer and not in every day use. The Masoretes came up with their vowel notation method between the 8th and 12th centuries CE.

The oldest versions of the T'nach are in Hebrew, and one can only speculate as to why missionaries insist on referencing the Masoretic Text (MT) - ignorance of Hebrew is the most likely answer. . .

The LXX (Septuagint) was a translation ONLY of the תּוֹרָה / Torah / Five Books of Moses / Pentateuch (not נְבִיאִים / Nevi'im / Prophets and כְּתוּבִים / Ketuvim / Writings) were not part of the original Septuagint -- so the missionaries who tout the "Septuagint" reference Psalms or Isaiah -- and apparently are ignorant that they were not found in the Septuagint at all (since they are not in the Torah).

What is today called the Septuagint (which is the entire Jewish bible in Greek) are translations into Greek from persons unknown at times unknown.

There was no quality assurance and as a result they became heavily corrupted over time. By the 5th century the Christians gave up on the LXX / Septuagint because it was so corrupt -- so why people now are debating this is really interesting.

The term "self-serving" comes to mind. Origen, an early church father (died 232 CE) tried to piece together a decent translation by putting 6 different versions side by side (called the Hexapla).

Here is what HE says about how bad the Septuagint had become "we are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery." Origen, A Letter from Origen to Africanus, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 4.

There is also St. Jerome (early 5th century) who decided to re-translate from the Hebrew rather than rely on the Septuagint saying: "I was stimulated to undertake the task by the zeal of Origen, who blended (the Septuagint) with the old edition Theodotions translation."


Many of the "pro-Septuagint" missionaries are also "King James" translation enthusiasts. Yet the translators of the KJV (King James) also noted that the Septuagint (Greek translation) was corrupt.

In the preface to the original KJV they wrote: "It is certain, that that Translation (e.g., the Septuagint) was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correction . . . . . the Translation of the Seventy (the Septuagint / LXX) was allowed to pass for current. Notwithstanding, though it was commended generally, yet it did not fully content the learned, no not of the Jews. For not long after (Jesus), Aquila fell in hand with a new Translation, and after him Theodotion, and after him Symmachus; yea, there was a fifth and a sixth edition, the Authors whereof were not known."

Yup-not being facetious but we ALL have much to learn-mostly from the Internet, of
course-right @synergy?
Besides the "fables", now you bring in Philo who the Church never accepted and Origen who the Church excommunicated. Your appeal to misguided witnesses shows just how far off you are. Not only that but you sided with the Masoretes who famously had no second thoughts against misrepresenting the OT word of God. They deliberately backtracked from the LXX word "virgin" to "maiden" to deliberately throw Christians off the true path. They were certainly a conniving bunch.

The fact remains that the Apostles overwhelmingly endorsed the LXX and there is nothing you can say or do against that fact.
 
I don't agree with all of this guy's conclusions but some interesting information here:

Thanks for that video. It's certainly food for thought. If Irenaeus had the more original LXX text in the 2nd century, then hopefully it's just a matter of time before that version gets unearthed somewhere around the Mediterranean region. In the meantime, I'll still use the Greek LXX we've been handed down.
 
Besides the "fables", now you bring in Philo who the Church never accepted and Origen who the Church excommunicated. Your appeal to misguided witnesses shows just how far off you are. Not only that but you sided with the Masoretes who famously had no second thoughts against misrepresenting the OT word of God. They deliberately backtracked from the LXX word "virgin" to "maiden" to deliberately throw Christians off the true path. They were certainly a conniving bunch.

The fact remains that the Apostles overwhelmingly endorsed the LXX and there is nothing you can say or do against that fact.
What scroll did Messiah read from-the LXX?
 
What scroll did Messiah read from-the LXX?
The problem is that we do not possess that scroll. I wish we did but we don't. What we do have is the Masoretic text that the Masoretes ravaged and a version of the LXX. The Dead Sea scrolls are an interesting case that needs an unbiased investigation.
 
Besides the "fables", now you bring in Philo who the Church never accepted and Origen who the Church excommunicated. Your appeal to misguided witnesses shows just how far off you are. Not only that but you sided with the Masoretes who famously had no second thoughts against misrepresenting the OT word of God. They deliberately backtracked from the LXX word "virgin" to "maiden" to deliberately throw Christians off the true path. They were certainly a conniving bunch.

The fact remains that the Apostles overwhelmingly endorsed the LXX and there is nothing you can say or do against that fact.

The problem is that we do not possess that scroll. I wish we did but we don't. What we do have is the Masoretic text that the Masoretes ravaged and a version of the LXX. The Dead Sea scrolls are an interesting case that needs an unbiased investigation.
How many versions of the LXX are there currently?
 
The Roots of PSA- its Origin is not from Scripture.

Anselm of Canterbury proposed a substitutionary atonement model, albeit not a fully developed theory. According to Anselm’s Cur Deus Homo, sin is not doing God’s will, which then “steals” His honor. As humans we are thus in debt to God and we owe him back the honor we stole by sinning. This honor must be appeased. For Anselm, “because God is infinite, any wound to his honor caused by the sins of Man must also be infinite, and the only way infinite satisfaction for these sins can be granted on behalf of man is by the voluntary death of Jesus, who is both God and Man.”



“If God is not paid the honor due Him, He is dishonored, having His honor taken from him. God’s honor is stolen by through sin. However, as long as he does not repay what he has stolen, he remains guilty. But it is not enough for him merely to repay what has been stolen; rather, because of the wrong which has been inflicted, he ought to repay more than he has stolen. For example, if someone who injures another’s health restores it, his doing so is insufficient payment unless he also gives some compensation for the painful wrong that was inflicted. Similarly, he who violates another’s honor does not sufficiently repay this honor unless, in proportion to the injury caused by the dishonoring, he makes some restitution which is acceptable to the one whom he dishonored. We must also note that when someone repays what he has stolen, he ought to return that which could not be exacted from him had he not stolen what belonged to another. Accordingly, then, everyone who sins is obliged to repay to God the honor which he has stolen. This [repayment of stolen honor] constitutes the satisfaction which every sinner is obliged to make to God… To forgive sin in this manner is identical with not punishing it. Now, in the absence of satisfaction, to order sin rightly is only to punish it; therefore, if sin is not punished, something disordered is forgiven… Therefore, it is not fitting that God should forgive sin that goes thus unpunished.” (Cur Deus Homo Chapter 11-12).

Click to expand...
Punishment is a key concept to Anselm, but why? Anselm is often criticized for deriving his doctrine of salvation from Germanic tribal law. Anselm’s idea of satisfaction draws from the idea that in Germanic clans, atonement for grievances must be made. Within their framework it is possible for one person to stand in for another. So, in his mind, Anselm sees the need for someone to be punished for sin and that makes up his framework of Christ’s death. It’s important to note that in Anselm, there isn’t the concept that the Father punished Christ, it wasn’t the suffering of the divine wrath, but that God was satisfied by Christ’s punishment. The Father doesn’t punish Christ, and Christ bears no punishment. So we see in the 11th century a substitutionary atonement but not penal substitutionary atonement.

Just to point out, that’s over 1,000 years after Christ before we see the roots of PSA.



The Reformers​


The Reformers, as we know, claimed they were recovering the truth of the Gospel to align their doctrine with the New Testament and the earliest Christians. Believing the Middle Ages had corrupted Christianity, the Reformers looked to redefine many of the doctrines of the Church. Luther goes so far as to say that Christ becomes the greatest and only sinner on earth while on the cross. Luther adopted parts of Anselm’s ideas but with more of a dichotomy or conflict between the wrath of God and the love of God.

We see a very real development of penal substitutionary atonement theory in John Calvin. Calvin took Anselm’s groundwork and expanded in an even more legalistic way. He applied his understanding of criminal law to the equation - man is a criminal and must be punished by God, who is angered by sin. The Son of God is sent to earth to bear the immense wrath of the God of all for us so that God may then be merciful. Calvin says things like “God, then, must of necessity look upon us in the person of His own Son, or else he is bound to hate us and abhor us,” “For since by nature we are unclean, and utterly rejected and cursed by God,” and talks about the “hatred between him and us.” These concepts are foreign to us in the East and yet critical to penal substitutionary atonement. The Early Church had no concept of God imputing the guilt of our sins to Christ, and he, in our place, bearing the punishment we deserve. Christ making payment for our sins, which satisfies the wrath and the righteousness of God so that He could forgive sinners without compromising his holiness, is a late addition to Christian through.

One of the most well-known verses in the New Testament to my faith group growing up was Romans 3:23-26. It’s part of the “Road to Romans” evangelism track. It’s interesting to read it while contemplating penal atonement - nowhere does it say Christ is punished in our place (we’ll tackle the word “propitiation” in just a minute). The same is true for the verses cited in favor of penal substitution - nowhere do they say Christ was a substitution, that Christ was punished by the Father, or that God’s wrath had to be sated by Christ.

Because of the fall, our ability to remain in union with God was damaged.

Now I want to be clear here - I have not been discussing atonement in general, but the specific doctrine of penal atonement substitution - the idea that the Father unleashed His wrath on Christ on the cross to satisfy His need for blood for forgiveness. God needed someone his equal in rank to satisfy the breaking of the law in order for justice to be fulfilled. The Father pours out His wrath on Christ in order to satisfy the offenses against His Law since Adam. It is this that I find preposterous, not the idea that Christ does atone for us. I have to ask: why would a good, loving God have to take out His wrath on His creation? https://liveorthodoxy.com/en/2020/0...s-a-poor-substitution-for-biblical-atonement/


What About Isaiah 53?​


Isaiah 53 is a paramount prophecy to defenders of penal substitutionary theory, yet it is often taken out of context. Bold claim, I know, but hear me out. No where in Isaiah does it say that the Father is punishing Christ. Actually, verse 4 says that despite the fact he bears our griefs and sorrows “yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.” Let’s reword that - humanity’s perception is that He is afflicted by God, not that God has smitten Him. Another key passage is verse 5 which tells us “by His stripes we are healed,” not “by His stripes the Father is appeased.” Let’s look at a literal translation from the Septuagint:

“The one our sins bore and on account of us he was grieved. And we considered him to be a misery, and for calamity by God, and for ill-treatment. But he was wounded because of our sins and was made infirm on account of our lawless deeds.” One should read Isaiah as a prophecy of Christ’s healing work, viewing Christ’s work as more encompassing than the narrow focus PSA allocates it to.



So What’s the Alternative?​


The Greek word translated to “atonement” in the Bible is “hilasterion“ (ιλαστηριον). In Romans 3:23-25 we read “…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation (ιλαστηριον) by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness because, in his divine forbearance, he had passed over former sins.”

The word here is a Greek word, so a literal translation can be tricky. One translation is the word propitiation, which implies an act of appeasing or making God happy to either gain favor or avoid retribution.

As Eric Hyde argues, “If one chooses to interpret hilasterion as propitiation (literally: “to make favorable,” with the implication of placating or appeasing the deity), then the entire Western notion of substitutionary atonement fits well.” But, if one uses the word expiation, which implies a cleansing and removal of sin, this fits less into the penal substitutionary atonement model. This turns the death and resurrection of Christ around - no longer is Christ trying to appease an angry God the Father who has wrath that must be satisfied, instead Christ is lovingly redeeming and restoring humanity.

Let’s also consider that hilasterion is used in the Septuagint to mean the “mercy seat” or “thing that atones.” It also appears again in Hebrews 9:5 as the mercy seat. Given that context to hilasterion, it makes more sense to that Christ’s self-sacrifice was an act for the removal of our sins instead of an act to appease or pacify an angry Father, so He can forgive.

We know that death entered the world through sin and is something that every living thing on earth is subject to. In Christ’s Incarnation, He reunited God and man in a way that only the Eternal Logos, being fully God and taking on humanity. Through His death, Christ defeated our enemy, death, and restored the human race (2 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 15:55-57). We share in Christ’s death and resurrection (Romans 6:8-14; 7:6) and, through Christ’s atonement we’ve been made clean and freed from sin (Ephesians 1:7; John 1:7), reuniting us to God and making us partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4).

Because of sins, we were held captive; the righteous dead were filing into hades. Christ came to set them free. Jesus had to go into the realm of death - that meant becoming a human, entering the world through a woman, living an earthly life, and then allowing himself to be killed. We see him on the cross, not like he’s writhing in agony, but looking more like a hero. He maintains a heroic status in Orthodoxy; we look upon him as our Redeemer, Savior, Deliverer, who, with His boldness, and his power, and his compassion, suffered, and died, and went into hades in order to set us free. The image of the resurrection looks different than European art. In our iconography, Christ is standing on the broken gates of hell, lifting Adam and Eve out of hades.

Hebrews 2:14-15 tells us “that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the Devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage.

Christ’s work is redemptive. Christ’s sacrifice was restorative. Christ brings God to man, as only one who is God and man can, bridging the gap, conquering death, and restoring us to life. This is the good news in the Scriptures. This is what has been taught by the Church since Pentecost.


Division of the Trinity​


This becomes problematic in the light of the Trinity when we look at Christ on the cross. The Father pours out his wrath on the Son. The Father has wrath, and for his need for justice, so He must punish. The Son, on the cross, asks for forgiveness, making a conflict in the divine will - punishment versus forgiveness. Taking it to the furthest logical conclusion puts the Son and the Father at odds, creating a divide within the indivisible Trinity. It also calls to question Christ’s place in the Godhead. Shouldn’t Christ’s holiness also be offended? Why would the Father need appeasement and not Christ or the Holy Spirit?

And if God the Father is truly punishing Christ, that is also sowing very real division within the Trinity. If the Father inflicts torture on the Son, how can the perfect love and unity of the Trinity survive?

hope this helps !!!
 
The Roots of PSA- its Origin is not from Scripture.

Anselm of Canterbury proposed a substitutionary atonement model, albeit not a fully developed theory. According to Anselm’s Cur Deus Homo, sin is not doing God’s will, which then “steals” His honor. As humans we are thus in debt to God and we owe him back the honor we stole by sinning. This honor must be appeased. For Anselm, “because God is infinite, any wound to his honor caused by the sins of Man must also be infinite, and the only way infinite satisfaction for these sins can be granted on behalf of man is by the voluntary death of Jesus, who is both God and Man.”
It stands to reason that if you reject ALL the 7 theories of vicarious atonement then you have to come up with a "new one"
Which one?



Unfortunately Courtney is not doing a good job in defending PSA-just my opinion-and Sean is way off.
 
It stands to reason that if you reject ALL the 7 theories of vicarious atonement then you have to come up with a "new one"
Which one?



Unfortunately Courtney is not doing a good job in defending PSA-just my opinion-and Sean is way off.
I believe the truth in all 7 of them just not any single truth in one of them in isolation
 
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