Diserner
Well-known member
Debate brings out the flesh, but we are called to love those in error.
Isaiah 53 the origin of PSA
- Thread starter civic
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Debate brings out the flesh, but we are called to love those in error.
Johann
Well-known member
Correct.
civic
Well-known member
The question becomes who is correct
Is it the majority view that is correct or the minority?
Was Jesus in the minority compared to the Jews who were the majority ?
What about the disciples who were in the minority compared to the Jewish leaders ?
PSA is the majority view since the 1600's, does it make it the correct view just because most christians bought into it since the reformation ?
Just some things to consider.
hope this helps !!!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Iron sharpening Iron isn't a pleasant experience. Neither is chasening.
Opposition is good. In fact, it is "ESSENTIAL" when it comes to dealing with our wills. No one changes if men are too scared to state what they believe to be true. Silence is never an option solely based upon the desire to not offend others.
I do believe this subject is very important. I believe all of you believe it is important. It is essential how we view the Atonement.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Heb 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
We are commanded above to be like Him in the Atonement..... "BEARING HIS REPROACH".
Jesus fellowshipped with no man in the Atonement. He fellowshipped with the Father. Our lives are a commitment to being like Him.
If you believe Christ was forsaken in the Atonement then just how can we fulfill "bearing His reproach".
Opposition is good. In fact, it is "ESSENTIAL" when it comes to dealing with our wills. No one changes if men are too scared to state what they believe to be true. Silence is never an option solely based upon the desire to not offend others.
I do believe this subject is very important. I believe all of you believe it is important. It is essential how we view the Atonement.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Heb 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
We are commanded above to be like Him in the Atonement..... "BEARING HIS REPROACH".
Jesus fellowshipped with no man in the Atonement. He fellowshipped with the Father. Our lives are a commitment to being like Him.
If you believe Christ was forsaken in the Atonement then just how can we fulfill "bearing His reproach".
Diserner
Well-known member
The point of Jesus taking my punishment is so I can rest easy knowing I never will.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Are you punished for sin now?
You know you are. I am too. We are all still chastened. We all still suffer for our sins in this life.
I wish I could convince you brother. I wish I could. Your view of sin is problematic. Most have the same issue.
Diserner
Well-known member
Not what the sin deserves. Discipline is different—
You don't know what you are talking about.
When was the last time you directly asked God to show you any deception and sin in your life?
A day has not gone by in 25 years I have not earnestly asked God this.
I am not the one who is deceived here.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
How is it different? Have you paid a speeding ticket recently? Have you seen the consequence of sin in your past come back around to affect you? You know you have. God does not keep us from entirely experience the judgement of sin. He certain forgives us and remains with us but the entire consequences of sin are not removed entirely from us. I don't want to be judged for sin but I have certainly been judged for sin. God just keeps loving me regardless.
We are stubborn creatures. It has taken me years to realize I was wrong about some things.
Even though we pray and seek God, He often lets us have our own way. You can notice the mistakes the apostles made in the early church. All you have to do is stop believing God keeps us from making mistakes simply because we asked Him to. He didn't stop the apostles. He isn't going to stop us from being wrong simply because we asked Him to.
We must learn. Learning includes allowing us to fail. Sometimes we don't even consider our actions until we fail.
Isaiah 53:4 (ESV) — 4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.
This how they esteemed him
it does not say God was punishing Christ or pouring his wrath out on him
Isaiah 53:10 (ESV) — 10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isaiah 53:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors.
Yes it was the will of God that he might make atonement for the people
Nothing there however about sin being imputed to Christ and suffering the wrath of and being abandoned by God as he was now an imputed sinner
101G
Well-known member
No sin imputed to him, but only a substitute for us, and he was not abandon by God. 101G say again, he was NOT abandon by God
101G.,
101G
Well-known member
So you want to defend the Penal substitutionary atonement theory, and you do not care what it states?
Got it
civic
Well-known member
It’s looking like several people have jumped on that bandwagon lol.
Its a wagon with no wheels
civic
Well-known member
And a dead horse
And the sides are falling offAnd a dead horse
civic
Well-known member
In the desert of Death Valley with no water
