civic
Well-known member
But the Son is not the Father as in Oneness right ? The Son and the Father share the same exact Divine Nature as God with all the same attributes but they are not each other right ?
How to tell when someone is speaking by the Spirit of God
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civic
Well-known member
In what way ? How does that concept apply to this thread topic with the Trinity or Deity of Christ ? Thanks !
GeneZ
Well-known member
The Son ALWAYS had two natures in union with God.
Its the introduction of the human body that confuses us.
He was always a union of Soul and Deity.
That union was to be seen in the OT as the pre-incarnate Soul of the one to become the man Jesus born of Mary.
Mary was used of God to provide the human body.
The pre-incarnate soul of Jesus?
He was known to the Jews as the "Lord God of Israel. The Lord Jehovah.
Here is the union of soul and God to be found in the Torah. Its so easy to miss when reading casually.
Keep in mind.... God is spirit, not soul! (John 4:23-24)
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father
in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit,
and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Note!
God is spirit (not soul) and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Some commentaries see the discrepancy between Deity and soul, and try to say its an anthropomorphism.
At least they are seeing what claiming God has a soul would indicate!
Here we go.
The two natures of the Son of God in union prior to the Incarnation.
And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah,
so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16
Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one,
Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one,
and anyone loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5
“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons,
“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons,
the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred
meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates; They are a trouble
to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isa 1:13-14
You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover, I will make
my dwelling among you, and my soul will not reject you.'I will also walk among you and
be your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12
When I was first shown this?
I became silent needing to allow it to sink in.
To become Jesus the Soul of Jehovah let go of his rightful powers of Deity he had in heaven as the Lord God of Israel,
and made himself to become nothing.... to become as a man! (Philippians 2:6-8)
If God wants something known in His timing? It will be made known at the right time..
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
grace and peace ......................
As sinners I believe people can only get the truth on any topic from GOD and if HE wants you to have it, it is HIS job to make sure you understand.
This is the meaning of Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; Berean Standard Bible. The truth does not come from our understanding of what our studies tell us nor is it based upon what we think must be right but only that which comes from HIM HIMself in answer to our faith.
Iow, a sinner cannot save himself even by teaching himself or understanding GOD's theology from himself.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in himself is a fool, but one who walks in wisdom will be safe.
Faith is an unproven hope, Heb 11:1. Prov 3:5 is why I quit studying the denominations as I could not see how they were not blaspheming HIS love, His righteousness and HSI justice, especially by approving the idea that HE creates evil people by creating them in Adam's sin and then actually bringing the judgement of sin against them so they die in the womb.
So I don't trust the years of study I put in nor what the kindly church folk tell me must be true in contrast to other nice kindly church people. When some idea seems to fit with what I hope is true, I accept it until I get another form of the idea that fits better. Always looking, always comparing each rendering of the idea.
I feel sometimes the faint quiet voice of reason against ideas and for ideas and my faith is that this feeling describes the voice from GOD and HE leads me but I have no proof and I do not claim anything is mine because I'm a sinner, not yet finished with the discipline that will train me in righteousness, Heb12:5-11...struggling to fit into the rest of the thought in Prov 3:5-6 in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight...
My point is, and perhaps I am at fault for not making this more clear, that HE followed His Father's instruction as creator of all things, and teaching men in the way that they should go, when HE was up where HE was before "in the form of God". This would be the "Christ Yesterday", Yes?
He followed His Father's Instruction as a mortal man that HE offered Himself to become, "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross". This would be the Christ we know today, the Messiah, as described in the Testimony of Witness, Yes?
Luke 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
And HE will still be following His Father's Instruction at the Great Throne Judgment. "Wherefore "God", (His God and my God) also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth". This would be the Christ of tomorrow, Yes?
Heb. 13: 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Are we not then also to have this same mind in us, as it is written?
Ecc. 12: 12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
John 8: 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
So when I said the timeline didn't matter, I meant that the Christ of the Bible, Glorified His Father with respect and obedience from the foundation of the world, regardless of the form HE was in. There was no beginning nor was there an end of this respect and honor for the One True God who sent Him.
Thanks for the question, I should have given a clearer answer.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Try again.... you're off in the toolies.
Rowan
Active member
The way to tell if someone is preaching, teaching the word of God by the spirit is varied. I'd say first on the list would be discernment. If you spend a lot of time in the word and you know the word you'll recognize a false teacher.
Second is "You will know them by their fruit" Matthew 7:17 This statement is part of Jesus’ teaching about recognizing true followers and avoiding false prophets.
Beginning with verse 15, we read this context: “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:15–20).
Second is "You will know them by their fruit" Matthew 7:17 This statement is part of Jesus’ teaching about recognizing true followers and avoiding false prophets.
Beginning with verse 15, we read this context: “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:15–20).
Fool4Christ
Active member
Peter warns against false teachers and false prophets.
“But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction” 2 Pet 2:1
Wrangler
Well-known member
This is what trinitarians must do to "support" their false doctrine, alter the word of God. 1 John 4:2 states Jesus is FROM God.
Oh, those pesky prepositions! So close. If only "OF" God and "FROM" God were not in Scripture. If only ...
As for me, I stick to God's word. Jesus IS the son OF God, who came in the flesh FROM God.
Wrangler
Well-known member
I agree. The question is, can the deceiver even do that much?
Speaking verbally, you cannot tell that I am proclaiming.
Jesus is lord. (as Scripture informs us)
I am not proclaiming
Jesus is LORD. (Which contradicts Scripture)
The LORD (YHWH) said to my Lord (Jesus)
Psalm 110:1
Wrangler
Well-known member
It's funny how Edit
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GeneZ
Well-known member
Actually, Peter was also revealing that the gift of prophecy was to end.
That the gift of prophecy was only temporary.
For, Peter does not say they will have false prophets among themselves.
He only mentions "false teachers" will be among them.
Prophets are not mentioned.
Why?
Peter understood Paul's intent when Paul wrote of the temporary gifts.
grace and peace!
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GeneZ
Well-known member
Correct... my post you were responding to should have explained the differences....
The Son has two natures in union.
The Son's human nature "flavors" God with human personality.
The Father is only one nature.
The only nature we get to see of the Father is *through* the Son revealing Him. (John 1:18)
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Not to be argumentative, but Gamaliel and the Pharisees most certainly spent a great deal of time in the original Holy Scriptures, and yet they believed Jesus was a false teacher.
But Zacharias and Simeon, who also spent a great deal of time in the Holy Scriptures, knew the Christ was from God before HE spoke a single Word.
I would ask a simple question if you would be so kind as to answer it.
According to the Testimony of Witness, what was the main written difference between Zacharias and Simeon, and the Pharisees? It seems a prudent question given the Pharisees were deceived regarding a false teacher, but Zacharias wasn't.
There are many places in Scripture which tell us the difference between a true teacher and a false teacher.
Titus 1: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
1 John 2: 3 "And hereby we do know" that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Matt. 6: 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Acts 5: 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Is. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
John 14: 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him ( The Father) not, neither knoweth him (The Father) but ye know him (The Father); for he (The Father) dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
So then it seems the ability to discern a deceiver, and certainly there are "many" who come in Christ's Name, is based more on what we do and the choices we make, than what someone else does.
Consider the Pharisees for an example of a deceiver.
Matt. 23: 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
The Jesus of the Bible says of them; Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
So if I also, have rejected some of God's Commandments and have adopted this world's religious traditions instead, would I not use and adopt their defense of these same religious traditions? And therefore, I would be the one producing the bad fruit, but would not know it, or even believe it when someone pointed it out to me.
What a great topic of discussion. I agree that study of our own is a very important part of God's Armor to protect us from the wiles of the devil. But it takes more than study, as the Inspired Word of God declares.
Ecc. 12: 12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Yes...
Ray
Member
The Wolves may say all the right things until they have control of the flock then they start slipping in the weird stuff. Usually it's they want to sleep with your wife and your children.
GeneZ
Well-known member
That is the extreme.... Too blatant.
Much more goes on that does not reach that level.
Most of them suffer from approbation lust.
They love knowing how to say what the people want to hear as to gain their praise and approval.
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number
of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3
For example..
Everyone when when first presented the Trinity has a difficult time making sense of the concept.
That is because they still lack having enough knowledge from the Word of God to stabilize their thinking.
But they do know from being shown Scripture that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God.
These teachers know how to keep the babies forever in nursery school with teachings that will keep them spiritually retarded while "having the illusion of being happy."
In contrast.. Those who have accepted suffering to gain knowledge? They will become the boogie man to them who must be kept out of their school yard lest they grow up in Christ and find themselves facing their own sufferings needed to reach that maturity. For that is when the spirits of darkness will resist a believer who wants to truly mature in Christ.
To keep their sense of 'human peace' they fight to stay consciously away from their responsibility before God.
They form into their own exclusive mutual admiration society and call it their peace... To the ultra extreme we find cults.
To those in God's army?
They are seen as draft dodgers.
They would rather fight the genuinely maturing believers than to get into the real fight....
Jesus did say... "Only a few find it."
"Many are called but few are chosen." = meaning?
Many are saved, but out of them only a few will be chosen to serve with Him.
So be it.. grace and peace!
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
FIRST: is the utterance Biblical?? If you don't know, then you're fair game for deception. Like the pronouncements if the "Marian Apparitions" they make no Biblical sense, so it's easy to ignore them.
PERSONALLY, when somebody gives me a "Word from God", if it passes the first test, then I file it in "Pending", and leave it there, till I get confirmation.
For example, some years ago, my wife got a "Word from God" from a person we didn't know. it was Biblical, so we filed it.
A Month later a totally different person unknown to us, and to the first person, gave her the EXACT SAME WORD.
That's when you start to take it seriously.
In another case I spoke "prophetically" (words supplied by the Holy Spirit), and another person in the same meeting told me that he had the identical WORD, but not the burden to speak it.
Paul cautions against "eating anything whole" unless it's judged to be accurate by the other Spirit filled people in the meeting.
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