A Question concerning 2 John 1:7
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dwight92070
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If "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh", what was He before? God.
Behold
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John 1, and Genesis 1:26
dwight92070
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So the Word is clear that if anyone denies the Deity of Jesus, they are the antiChrist.
civic
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Yes according to 1 John 4:2-3 cf 2 John 1:7. John identifies Jesus as the True God and Eternal Life in 1 John 5:20.
Selah
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He was in His Spiritual body.
John 4:24-26 (NKJV) 24 “God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am [He.]”
Complete
Well-known member
'Hereby know ye the Spirit of God:
Every spirit that confesseth
.. that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh
.... is of God:
And every spirit that confesseth not
.. that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh
.... is not of God:
and this is that spirit of antichrist,
whereof ye have heard that it should come;
and even now already is it in the world.'
(1Jn 4:2)
'For many deceivers are entered into the world,
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist.'
(2Jn 1:7)
'And we know that the Son of God is come,
and hath given us an understanding,
that we may know Him that is true,
and we are in Him that is true,
even in His Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true God, and eternal life.'
(1Jn 5:20)
* Thank you, @civic
Every spirit that confesseth
.. that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh
.... is of God:
And every spirit that confesseth not
.. that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh
.... is not of God:
and this is that spirit of antichrist,
whereof ye have heard that it should come;
and even now already is it in the world.'
(1Jn 4:2)
'For many deceivers are entered into the world,
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist.'
(2Jn 1:7)
'And we know that the Son of God is come,
and hath given us an understanding,
that we may know Him that is true,
and we are in Him that is true,
even in His Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true God, and eternal life.'
(1Jn 5:20)
* Thank you, @civic
He wasn't God, He has always had a God( Psalm 45:7( before earth)- John 20:17( on Earth)--Rev 3:12( Back in heaven)---One thing is pure fact= God does not have a God.
No where does the bible say that. You made it up out of false reasoning.
Behold
Well-known member
No one is "anti-Christ" if they do not accept the NT teaching of "God manifested in the Flesh"... 1 Tim 3:16 (KJV).
In fact, its not required that you believe that Jesus is God, regarding being accepted by God, as "Jesus came into the world to save sinners".. and everyone qualifies.
Complete
Well-known member
'For many deceivers are entered into the world,
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist.'
(2 John 1:7)
Hello @jeremiah1five,
Thank you for the correction re. Gnosticism/docetism.
* In answer to your question, (quote) 'What is the doctrine of Christ, if you know?' Going by what is said in 2 John 1:7 (above), the words, 'the doctrine of Christ', appears to refer to Who Jesus was/is, rather than what He taught.
'Whosoever transgresseth,
and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of (or concerning) Christ,
he hath both the Father and the Son.'
(2 John 1:9)
* It is summed up in John 20:30 I believe:-
'And many other signs truly did Jesus
in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing
ye might have life through His name.'
(Joh 20:30-31)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Last edited:
dwight92070
Well-known member
No, out of Bible reasoning. See Civic's comments in #125
Also, read Jesus' own words in John 8:24: "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."
Believe that i am he= the one sent forth from God=the Messiah. It doesn't say a thing about being God.
Johann
Well-known member
Low Christological view of Messiah.
Textual Anchor: John 8:58 (Textus Receptus)
"πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι, ἐγώ εἰμι."
"Before Abraham was, I am."
Greek Grammar Breakdown:
γενέσθαι – aorist infinitive of γίνομαι, indicating a point of origin in time (i.e., Abraham came into being at a moment).
ἐγώ εἰμι – 1st person singular present indicative of εἰμί, yet not following temporal sequence; no predicate, and not idiomatic Greek.
This deliberate grammatical non-parallel sets up a contrast:
Abraham came to be at a moment in time (γενέσθαι),
But Jesus always is—not was, not became, but ἐγώ εἰμι—eternal present existence.
2. LXX Background: Exodus 3:14
Greek LXX (Exod. 3:14):
"Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν"
– “I am the one who is.”
This is the Septuagint rendering of YHWH’s self-revelation to Moses.
Scholarly Corroboration:
A.T. Robertson, Grammar of the GNT, p. 886:
"ἐγώ εἰμι used absolutely, as in John 8:58, is the most emphatic way in Greek to claim timeless existence. It is a deliberate echo of the divine name in Exodus."
BDAG (s.v. εἰμί, 2.b):
“Especially in Johannine usage, ἐγώ εἰμι without predicate functions as a title … modeled on Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν in Ex 3:14 LXX.”
C.F.D. Moule, Idiom Book, p. 114:
“This use of ἐγώ εἰμι, standing absolutely, is unique and theologically loaded, clearly referencing the divine name.”
Kenneth Wuest, Word Studies in the Greek NT:
“The use of ἐγώ εἰμι here is not idiomatic or incidental. Jesus is not saying, ‘I was before Abraham,’ but instead identifying Himself with the timeless present: the ‘I AM’ of Exodus 3:14.”
Bob Utley, Commentary on John:
“This is the clearest and boldest claim to deity in the Gospels. The Jews understood it. That is why they took up stones (v. 59).”
3. Jewish Reaction Confirms the Meaning
John 8:59:
“Then took they up stones to cast at him…”
Stoning is the Levitical punishment for blasphemy (cf. Leviticus 24:16). Their response shows that they understood Jesus' ἐγώ εἰμι as a divine claim, not just odd grammar.
If Jesus had meant “I existed before Abraham,” the Greek would more naturally be something like:
πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι, ἤμην (“I was”)
But He avoids the past tense deliberately. This signals non-temporal, eternal self-existence.
4. Other Instances of ἐγώ εἰμι Without Predicate
John 6:20 – “It is I” (ἐγώ εἰμι), calms storm → cf. Psalm 107:29; Job 9:8
John 13:19 – “That you may believe that I am He (ἐγώ εἰμι).”
John 18:5–6 – When Jesus says “ἐγώ εἰμι,” the soldiers fall backward (suggesting divine power).
In each of these, ἐγώ εἰμι serves as more than identification—it signals divine self-identification, especially in contexts of power, authority, or fulfillment of prophecy (Isa. 43:10–11: “that ye may know… I am he”).
5. Theological Weight: Eternality and Identity
John 8:58 places Jesus in the realm of pre-temporal existence. The formula ἐγώ εἰμι implies:
Unoriginated being (cf. Heb. 7:3 – "without beginning of days...")
Identity with the YHWH of Israel (cf. Isa. 41:4; 43:10–13 – “I am He”)
In John 8:58, Jesus uses the absolute form ἐγώ εἰμι, not as a grammatical placeholder or temporal claim, but as a deliberate identification with the divine name revealed in Exodus 3:14. The Greek grammar (non-parallel tenses), theological background (LXX), Jewish response (stoning), and supporting Johannine uses all converge to show that Jesus was unambiguously claiming to be YHWH—not metaphorically, but ontologically.
J.
dwight92070
Well-known member
"I AM" says a thing about God, but you ignore that.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
First, let's define terms:
"Christ" is the English word taken from the Greek "Christos" which is taken from the Hebrew word "Messias" which means "Anointed" (as per Strong.) "Anointed" refers to the "Spirit." (Holy Spirit. It also refers to 'oil.')
The "Prophet like unto Moses" in Deuteronomy means many things. One of those things is that this "Prophet" would be "anointed" as Moses was, and as was Joshua. So, Jesus the Christ/Messias refers to One who would be "Anointed" by the Spirit (remember, the Spirit rested upon Jesus' shoulder, he didn't dwell in Him.)
2 John makes reference to "doctrines of Christ" or "teachings" of the Christ/Spirit, who Authored the Scripture. So, "Doctrines of Christ" refer to the teachings in Scripture - every true doctrine of the Scripture.
What are the doctrines of Christ? One would be "thou shalt not steal," or "thou shalt not have other gods before [Me.]" Whatever is taught in Scripture which was Authored by the Spirit are "doctrines/teachings of Christ/Spirit."
Whatever truth or teaching or doctrine in Scripture is [a] Doctrine of Christ.
civic
Well-known member
Prior to the Incarnation Christ appeared bodily at times in the OT as a Christophany, Theophany, The Angel of the Lord who was identified as and called YHWH.
For example He walked in the garden with Adam, wrestled with Jacob, appeared to Abraham, Hagar, Moses, Joshua, to Daniel in the furnace etc.......
Complete
Well-known member
'Whosoever transgresseth,
and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
he hath both the Father and the Son.'
(2 John 1:9)
Hello @jeremiah1five,
Looking again at the verse above, I agree with you, it does appear to refer to the teaching of Christ, rather than to His Person. Those who transgress and abide not in the doctrine of Christ, refers to false teachers who claim to bring some higher teaching, beyond the Apostles doctrine.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Selah
Active member
Yes, Jesus (God Himself) appeared “bodily” many times. Why? …so that flesh man could see Him (flesh man can’t see a spiritual man). See, in heaven, we will all have spiritual bodies. There will be no flesh bodies there.
John 1:14 (NKJV) And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
1 Corinthians 15:40-44 (NKJV) 40 [There are] also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another. 41 [There is] one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for [one] star differs from [another] star in glory. 42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. [The body] is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
civic
Well-known member
1 Corinthians 15:38-41
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fishanother. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the starsanother; and star differs from star in splendor.
A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature
1- people
2- seed
3-animals
4-birds
5-fish
6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5
So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.
These Greek Lexicons agree that soma is physical just like Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15
Every Greek Lexicon and Dictionary agrees that the Resurrected BODY(SOMA) is physical and not immaterial.
Strong's Concordance
sóma: a body
Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sóma
Phonetic Spelling: (so'-mah)
Definition: a body
Usage: body, flesh;
HELPS Word-studies
4983 sṓma – the physical body.
NT:4983) is "the body as a whole, the instrument of life," whether of man living, e. g., Matt 6:22, or dead, Matt 27:52; or in resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:44; or of beasts, Heb 13:11; of grain, 1 Cor 15:37-38; of the heavenly hosts, 1 Cor 15:40.
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)
More proof soma is physical
as in Greek writings from Hesiod down, the living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (cf. Song of the Three, 63); σῶμα ψυχικόν and σῶμα πνευματικόν are distinguished, 1 Corinthians 15:44(see πνευματικός, 1 and ψυχικός, a.); τό σῶμα τίνος, Matthew 5:29; Luke 11:34; Romans 4:19; Romans 8:23 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)), etc.; ὁ ναός τοῦ σωματου αὐτοῦ, the temple which was his body, John 2:21; plural, Romans 1:24; 1 Corinthians 6:15; Ephesians 5:28; the genitive of the possessor is omitted where it is easily learned from the context, as 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 4:10; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Hebrews 10:22(23), etc.; τό σῶμα τῆς ταπεινώσεως ἡμῶν, the body of our humiliation (subjective genitive), i. e. which we wear in this servile and lowly human life, opposed to τό σῶμα τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ (i. e. τοῦ Χριστοῦ), the body which Christ has in his glorified state with God in heaven, Philippians 3:21; διά τοῦ σωματου τοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the death of Christ's body, Romans 7:4; διά τῆς προσφοράς τοῦ σωματου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the sacrificial offering of the body of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 10:10; τό σῶμα τῆς σαρκός, the body consisting of flesh, i. e. the physical body
Thayers Greek Lexicon
hope this helps !!!
