A Question concerning 2 John 1:7

[Complete]

'For many deceivers are entered into the world,
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist'
(2John 1:7)

Hello there,

Is John referring to the Gnostics of his day in 2 John 1:7?

* I read that:- 'The Gnostics believed that the physical body of Jesus was not real but only appeared to be physical. Their claim was, and remains, that His spirit descended upon Him at baptism and then departed His body just prior to His crucifixion.' (quote)

* The verses that follow instruct believers as to how to deal with such a company:-

'Look to yourselves,
that we lose not those things which we have wrought,
but that we receive a full reward.
.. Whosoever transgresseth,
.... and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
...... hath not God.
........ He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
.......... he hath both the Father and the Son.
..If there come any unto you,
.... and bring not this doctrine,
...... receive him not into your house,
........ neither bid him God speed:'
.......... For he that biddeth him God speed
............ is partaker of his evil deeds.'
(2John 1:8-11)

* I was of the impression that this referred to such as Jehovah's Witnesses, who deny the deity of Christ, for in doing so they also are not abiding in the doctrine of Christ, are they?

Thank you in anticipation,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Fred]

Both.

 

[Complete]

'But if I tarry long
that thou mayest know
how thou oughtest to behave thyself
in the house of God
which is the church of the living God
the pillar and ground of the truth
and without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness
God was manifest in the flesh
justified in the Spirit
seen of angels
preached unto the Gentiles
believed on in the world
received up into glory.'
(1Tim. 3:15-16)

Praise God!

 

[Fred]

2 John 7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
John 1:14
The Word became flesh.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/those-who-deny-the-lord-jesus-is-god-yhwh-are-not-saved-2-corinthians-11-4.660/page-23#post-19010

This connects back to John 1:1.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/a-super-important-teaching-from-jesus.1897/#post-96757

 

[Complete]

'That which was from the beginning,
.. which we have heard,
.... which we have seen with our eyes,
...... which we have looked upon,
........ and our hands have handled,
.......... of the Word of life;
(For the life was manifested,
.. and we have seen it,
.... and bear witness,
...... and shew unto you that eternal life,
........ which was with the Father,
.......... and was manifested unto us )
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you,
that ye also may have fellowship with us:
and truly our fellowship is with the Father,
and with his Son Jesus Christ.'
(1Jn 1:1)

* What a witness testimony this is!! How privileged they were to know Christ in the flesh, weren't they? and how privileged we are also to know Him in the spirit.

Praise His Holy Name!

 

[Fred]

Notice also the importance of "doctrine" (didachē) in the context.
There are versions that translate it as "teaching."

2 John 7-10
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8 Be on your guard, so that you may not lose those things for which we have worked for, but that you may receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.


Acts 2:42
And they continued devoting themselves to the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

This "doctrine" includes what is taught in Acts 2:21. That is, calling on (= praying to) Jesus as being YHWH.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-bible-does-not-teach-to-pray-to-jesus.2040/page-13#post-113702

 

[civic]

The number one test to distinguish truth for error and the Spirit of God from that of the spirit of antichrist is the confession of our divine Lord Jesus Christ. Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny He is God in the flesh- that He is fully God and fully man. They will deny God in human flesh. They will always deny the Incarnation which was permanent. When a person affirms that Jesus Christ is God in flesh that equates to divine truth. Every spirit that confesses meaning to continually confess or agrees with saying the same thing as John declares in his writings is from God. This is the person who is taught by the Spirit of God according to John. The first test that you want to have for any teacher is their Christology, check out what they say about Christ. This becomes a litmus test that is very easy to spot among the false teachers. If you have somebody who denies the deity of Christ you have a clear indication they are of the spirit of antichrist , a false teacher like these gnostics in Johns day that were already in the early church.

If we go back to the beginning of 1 John, we read that which we he beheld, and actually touched concerning the Word of life. That is a term expressing the very deity of Christ. Christ emanates from God as His living Word. He was with the Father in the beginning in 1:2. Jesus was One with the Father sharing the same essence with the Father in heaven with Him before the foundation of the world. John says He was manifested to us. John's language then starts out with the fact that Jesus Christ emanates from God as the very living Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God,the One John says that was from the beginning that we heard, we saw and we touched. Jesus the Word of life was the eternal One who was with the Father prior to His Incarnation and was then manifested to us in the flesh that we could see and hear and touch according to John. Therefore, we can clearly see Jesus is the very Word of God Incarnate. He is the eternal life who became flesh. The Word who was with God, the Word who was God, was the One who John says was manifested to us. This is how we can tell the spirit of truth from the spirit of antichrist. Can you confess Jesus is God Incarnate?

1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Erchomenon the present participle in 2 John 1:7- Below here are just a few of many Greek Scholars/ Theologians have to say is the meaning.


Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)

Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28;4:1-6;5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)

Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)

Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)


Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.


Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ‎eleeluthota ‎"has come

Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh ‎Ieesoun ‎‎Christon ‎‎erchomenon ‎‎en ‎‎sarki‎. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of ‎erchomai ‎treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have ‎eleeluthota ‎(perfect active participle) in this same construction with ‎homologeoo‎, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.


Vincent- Is come ‎erchomenon‎. Wrong. The verb is in the present participle, "coming," which describes the manhood

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Notice also the importance of "doctrine" (didachē) in the context.
There are versions that translate it as "teaching."

2 John 7-10
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8 Be on your guard, so that you may not lose those things for which we have worked for, but that you may receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.


Acts 2:42
And they continued devoting themselves to the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

This "doctrine" includes what is taught in Acts 2:21. That is, calling on (= praying to) Jesus as being YHWH.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-bible-does-not-teach-to-pray-to-jesus.2040/page-13#post-113702

And confessing ( agreeing with ) He is Lord/YHWH as per Romans 10:9-13. As we can see Paul and John are in complete agreement.

 

[Complete]

'That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
.. and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
.... For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.
...... For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
........ for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him.
.......... For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.'
(Rom 10:9-13)

Praise God!

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

* I was of the impression that this referred to such as Jehovah's Witnesses, who deny the deity of Christ, for in doing so they also are not abiding in the doctrine of Christ, are they?

Thank you in anticipation,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi, Complete!

Nice to "talk" to you for the first time
That verse is making reference to the Gnostics. Specifically to a kind of Gnostics that denied that Jesus could have a real physical body, because that would mean corruption, evil, impurity.
The problem with this belief is that it led people to reject everything material: sex, good food, money, comfort, and even the presence of other human beings. Many abandoned their families and communities to live in caves or the desert, to escape "the world", which was corrupt and would end soon.

Jehovah Witnesses do believe Jesus Christ came in the flesh. They believe He ate, sweat, slept, urinated, as any other human being. They teach that we must thank God for food, our jobs and wealth, and enjoy sex within God's laws. So this verse does not apply to our Jehovah Witnesses friends.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.

Amen

There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny He is God in the flesh

No.
2 John 1:7 does not demand to believe that Jesus is "God in the flesh" but that has "come in the flesh"
The text says:
'For many deceivers are entered into the world,
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist'

I respectfully invite you to admit your mistake, or else offer support to your assertion.
The heresy that is being condemned here is the denial of Jesus's real body.
Flesh is not deity. Flesh is body. There is absolutely no other way to interpret this, not just from text analysis but from history.

Personally, I confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.
He really ate, drank, slept, urinated, sweat, experienced pain and diseases.
He really had to learn how to walk, how to speak, how to use his hands to work. He experienced libido, fatigue, and cold.
I confess that our bodies are not unclean or sinful, as Gnostics did. I confess they are a gift of God.
I confess that creation and matter are not evil, as Gnostics did, but a reflection of God's attributes and love.

 

[civic]

Amen

No.
2 John 1:7 does not demand to believe that Jesus is "God in the flesh" but that has "come in the flesh"
The text says:
'For many deceivers are entered into the world,
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist'

I respectfully invite you to admit your mistake, or else offer support to your assertion.
The heresy that is being condemned here is the denial of Jesus's real body.
Flesh is not deity. Flesh is body. There is absolutely no other way to interpret this, not just from text analysis but from history.

Personally, I confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.
He really ate, drank, slept, urinated, sweat, experienced pain and diseases.
He really had to learn how to walk, how to speak, how to use his hands to work. He experienced libido, fatigue, and cold.
I confess that our bodies are not unclean or sinful, as Gnostics did. I confess they are a gift of God.
I confess that creation and matter are not evil, as Gnostics did, but a reflection of God's attributes and love.

1 Tim 3:16-
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 1:1- the Word was God
John 1:14- The Word ( who was God ) became flesh ( a man )

Leviticus 26:12
12 And I will walk among you and will be your God, and you shall be my people.

2 Corinthians 6:16
16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,
“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.

Zech 12:10
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Conclusion: Above we see YHWH declare that He will walk among His people and they will pierce Him. YHWH the Son is God in the flesh who walked among His people and was pierced just as YHWH declared would happen.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

1 Tim 3:16-
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hi Civic
I understand that under this mistranslation many people could be misled to associate 2 John 1:7 with this verse.
However, The oldest Greek manuscripts do not say “God” but “He who was manifest in the flesh”, and refer to Jesus Christ.
If you follow the verse, you will find that it makes sense, as it is Christ who was justified in Spirit by God, and it was Christ who was received up into glory by God, according to the rest of scriptures.
The sentence in Greek is here and I have highlighted in green the word “He who” or “He whom” or “which”

καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις,ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

Many modern translations do not say “God” anymore. You can consult that quickly in Biblegateway.com

John 1:1- the Word was God
John 1:14- The Word ( who was God ) became flesh ( a man )

I recognize and respect your literal interpretation of this verse.
To me, The Word of God is not literally Jesus Christ, nor can the Word literally become flesh.
In any case, the author of 2 John was not concerned about anyone denying Jesus was God, because he himself knew that God was the Fther of Jesus Christ. That is why he says from the start: “Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love”

Instead, The author was concerned about the denial of Jesus Christ coming in flesh. This denial was characteristic of the Gnostics.

Leviticus 26:12
12 And I will walk among you and will be your God, and you shall be my people.

2 Corinthians 6:16
16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,
“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.

Please read the verse again,.
Paul refers to us, as temple of God, in contrast with the pagan temples of idols. Since we are the temple of the living God, God walks the streets in each one the believers. It is, therefore, a metaphor.
Leviticus 26:12 is also a metaphor. In several other instances God promised to raise a Messiah, not to transform Himself into a human Messiah.
You can ask any Jew rabbi or consult any Jew scholar on whether Judaism expected God to literally walk our streets.

 

[civic]

Hi Civic
I understand that under this mistranslation many people could be misled to associate 2 John 1:7 with this verse.
However, The oldest Greek manuscripts do not say “God” but “He who was manifest in the flesh”, and refer to Jesus Christ.
If you follow the verse, you will find that it makes sense, as it is Christ who was justified in Spirit by God, and it was Christ who was received up into glory by God, according to the rest of scriptures.
The sentence in Greek is here and I have highlighted in green the word “He who” or “He whom” or “which”

καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις,ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

Many modern translations do not say “God” anymore. You can consult that quickly in Biblegateway.com


I recognize and respect your literal interpretation of this verse.
To me, The Word of God is not literally Jesus Christ, nor can the Word literally become flesh.
In any case, the author of 2 John was not concerned about anyone denying Jesus was God, because he himself knew that God was the Fther of Jesus Christ. That is why he says from the start: “Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love”

Instead, The author was concerned about the denial of Jesus Christ coming in flesh. This denial was characteristic of the Gnostics.




Please read the verse again,.
Paul refers to us, as temple of God, in contrast with the pagan temples of idols. Since we are the temple of the living God, God walks the streets in each one the believers. It is, therefore, a metaphor.
Leviticus 26:12 is also a metaphor. In several other instances God promised to raise a Messiah, not to transform Himself into a human Messiah.
You can ask any Jew rabbi or consult any Jew scholar on whether Judaism expected God to literally walk our streets.

No it says GOD WILL WALK AMONG HIS PEOPLE.

JUST as GOD WALKED IN THE GARDEN WITH ADAM.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

No it says GOD WILL WALK AMONG HIS PEOPLE.

JUST as GOD WALKED IN THE GARDEN WITH ADAM.

I believe God has no legs, no feet, and no need for locomotion… i believe He cannot be seen, and heavens and earth cannot contain Him.
So, I don’t believe God has literally walked with Adam or men on earth.
I don’t believe the Torah predicted that God would literally walk among men.
Certainly, He walks with us metaphorically, as Paul says.

 

[civic]

I believe God has no legs, no feet, and no need for locomotion… i believe He cannot be seen, and heavens and earth cannot contain Him.
So, I don’t believe God has literally walked with Adam or men on earth.
I don’t believe the Torah predicted that God would literally walk among men.
Certainly, He walks with us metaphorically, as Paul says.


View attachment 978

You can believe whatever you want to but the bible says God walked with Adam and that YHWH would walk among His people several times in the OT prophecies

 

[Selah]

'For many deceivers are entered into the world,
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist'
(2John 1:7)

Hello there,

Is John referring to the Gnostics of his day in 2 John 1:7?

* I read that:- 'The Gnostics believed that the physical body of Jesus was not real but only appeared to be physical. Their claim was, and remains, that His spirit descended upon Him at baptism and then departed His body just prior to His crucifixion.' (quote)

* The verses that follow instruct believers as to how to deal with such a company:-

'Look to yourselves,
that we lose not those things which we have wrought,
but that we receive a full reward.
.. Whosoever transgresseth,
.... and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
...... hath not God.
........ He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
.......... he hath both the Father and the Son.
..If there come any unto you,
.... and bring not this doctrine,
...... receive him not into your house,
........ neither bid him God speed:'
.......... For he that biddeth him God speed
............ is partaker of his evil deeds.'
(2John 1:8-11)

* I was of the impression that this referred to such as Jehovah's Witnesses, who deny the deity of Christ, for in doing so they also are not abiding in the doctrine of Christ, are they?

Thank you in anticipation,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

There are many false teachers in the world that teach not the doctrines of Christ. Instead, they go around trying to destroy the pure truth of God’s Word. That’s why we study our Bibles so that no one can deceive us with their nonsense and man-made traditions.

Selah

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You can believe whatever you want to but the bible says God walked with Adam and that YHWH would walk among His people several times in the OT prophecies

Do you believe that God literally walked with Adam?
Our Mormon friends can believe that, because they think God has legs, feet, and a spine that is suited for locomotion.

 

[jeremiah1five]

'For many deceivers are entered into the world,
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist'
(2John 1:7)

Hello there,

Is John referring to the Gnostics of his day in 2 John 1:7?

* I read that:- 'The Gnostics believed that the physical body of Jesus was not real but only appeared to be physical. Their claim was, and remains, that His spirit descended upon Him at baptism and then departed His body just prior to His crucifixion.' (quote)

That is called "Docetism," quite different from Gnosticism.

* The verses that follow instruct believers as to how to deal with such a company:-

'Look to yourselves,
that we lose not those things which we have wrought,
but that we receive a full reward.
.. Whosoever transgresseth,
.... and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
...... hath not God.
........ He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
.......... he hath both the Father and the Son.
..If there come any unto you,
.... and bring not this doctrine,
...... receive him not into your house,
........ neither bid him God speed:'
.......... For he that biddeth him God speed
............ is partaker of his evil deeds.'
(2John 1:8-11)

* I was of the impression that this referred to such as Jehovah's Witnesses, who deny the deity of Christ, for in doing so they also are not abiding in the doctrine of Christ, are they?

Thank you in anticipation,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

And what is the Doctrine of Christ if you know?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

And what is the Doctrine of Christ if you know?

The doctrine of Christ is to love others, as the Samaritan loved the man at risk.
Love transcends ethnical barriers and any notion of "racial impurity"