He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[Doug Brents]

Baptism does not save you​

The concept of baptism has been a topic of debate among Christians for centuries. While some believe that baptism is essential for salvation, others argue that it is a symbol of one’s faith and does not have any saving power. Here are some key points to consider:

• 1 Peter 3:21: This verse is often cited as evidence that baptism saves. However, a closer examination of the verse reveals that Peter is not saying that the physical act of baptism itself saves, but rather that it is an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Christ.

Which happens during baptism, as Peter says.

• The Bible does not say that baptism is necessary for salvation: Nowhere in the Bible does it say that a person cannot be saved without being baptized. In fact, the Bible teaches that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9).

The only place where "faith alone" (or anything similar) is in James 2:24 where it says, "NOT by faith alone". John 3:5 says that we cannot enter the Kingdom of God (the Church) without being born of both the Spirit and of water (baptism).

• Baptism is a symbol of faith: Baptism is a public declaration of one’s faith in Jesus Christ. It is a symbol of the believer’s commitment to follow Christ and to identify with him in his death, burial, and resurrection.

Our death to sin, burial, and resurrection take place during baptism (Rom 6:1-7), and it is in baptism that our sins are cut from us (Col 2:11-14). Baptism is not just a public declaration, but the moment in time in which the commitment is sealed and salvation becomes fact. Just as with a wedding, the vows can be spoken and the rings exchanged, but the two are not one until the minister "declares them husband and wife". That is what baptism is, the moment when we become one with Christ.

• Salvation is by faith alone: The Bible teaches that salvation is by faith alone, not by works, including baptism. This is clear in passages such as Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 3:28.

Faith without action is dead (James 2:26). Without action faith is not real, nor does it have any value or power. Christ is the author of salvation, not to those who have intellectual assent to the truth of the Gospel, but to those who obey Him (Heb 5:9).

• The focus is on Christ, not baptism: The Bible’s focus is on Jesus Christ and his work on the cross, not on baptism. Salvation is through faith in Christ, not through any human ritual or ceremony.

The focus is certainly on Christ Jesus and what He did. But we must enter into Christ in order to become one with Him, and we enter into Christ, are clothed with Him, when we are baptized into Him (Gal 3:26-27).

 

[Obadiah]

…Repent and be baptized, everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins…

You have remission of sins before baptism?

yes

 

[Truther]

yes

How did you obtain remission of sins prior to baptism if Peter told the 3000 to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins? Did you take some type of shortcut that I’m not aware of?
Maybe from the apocrypha?

 

[dwight92070]

A true church has Jesus at it's center. The Church of Christ has water baptism at its center. Just about everything they teach comes back to water baptism at one time or another. They are obsessed with water baptism. A true church is obsessed with Jesus.

 

[Obadiah]

How did you obtain remission of sins prior to baptism if Peter told the 3000 to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins? Did you take some type of shortcut that I’m not aware of?
Maybe from the apocrypha?

I accepted the free gift of salvation that Jesus provided

 

[Truther]

I accepted the free gift of salvation that Jesus provided

This is free from Jesus….

38…repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins….

 

[Bubba]

A true church has Jesus at it's center. The Church of Christ has water baptism at its center. Just about everything they teach comes back to water baptism at one time or another. They are obsessed with water baptism. A true church is obsessed with Jesus.

The bible teaches that it s our faith in the finished work of Christ that saves us. Anything added to that is a man-made Works Based salvation. With man being obsessed with his part in obtaining his salvation.

 

[Truther]

The bible teaches that it s our faith in the finished work of Christ that saves us. Anything added to that is a man-made Works Based salvation. With man being obsessed with his part in obtaining his salvation.

If we actually had faith, we would obey Acts 2:38. We tell Peter to get lost with the modern faith of today. Rebelling against Peter is not what I call Faith. It’s called guts.

 

[Doug Brents]

A true church has Jesus at it's center. The Church of Christ has water baptism at its center. Just about everything they teach comes back to water baptism at one time or another. They are obsessed with water baptism. A true church is obsessed with Jesus.

Christ most certainly is the center of my faith, and the faith of all of the people in the Church of Christ that I know personally. The only reason I ride baptism so hard is because of the false doctrine taught by so many today in opposition to the Biblical truth of salvation at the point of baptism.

When teaching a person who does not know Christ, baptism is not my focus, Christ is. But when discussing with someone, like yourself, who knows Christ and has a good foundation in the Scriptures, baptism becomes one of the only major points of disagreement.

 

[Obadiah]

The bible teaches that it s our faith in the finished work of Christ that saves us. Anything added to that is a man-made Works Based salvation. With man being obsessed with his part in obtaining his salvation.

Exactly the Scripture is clear, that justification is by faith. Faith is as important and central as justification is, to our “salvation.”

 

[mailmandan]

The bible teaches that it s our faith in the finished work of Christ that saves us. Anything added to that is a man-made Works Based salvation. With man being obsessed with his part in obtaining his salvation.

Amen! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed.

 

[Bronson]

Exactly the Scripture is clear, that justification is by faith. Faith is as important and central as justification is, to our “salvation.”

All who believe into the Lord Jesus Christ enter into a spiritual union with Him, so that we are in Christ and Christ is in us.

Baptism is the outward sign of the Salvation we receive when we believe in Jesus Christ, which signified a redemptive relationship for all of those who were, by faith, saved . Baptism definitely can't save you.

 

[Believe]

BAPTISM NOT ESSENTIAL TO SALVATION

Baptists do not believe that baptism is essential to salvation, for baptism is mentioned in the New Testament as distinct from the gospel of salvation.

Those who hold that baptism is essential to salvation, quote John 3:5: “Except a man be born of water, and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God,” and they add, “What then is to become of those who are too sick to be immersed? Are they to be shut out of the kingdom of heaven?

If the words—“born of water”—mean baptism, which is disputed, the fact that the want of baptism will not keep any one out of heaven, if circumstances forbid its being administered, is clearly shown in Christ’s words to the dying thief: “Verily I say unto thee, to-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43.) The thief was not baptized, and was saved; and for all we know, Simon who was baptized, was lost.
“Then Simon.… was baptized.… But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee.… Thou has neither part nor lot in this matter; for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.” (Acts 8:13–20.) So was Judas Iscariot.

In 1 Peter 3:21, we read—“The like figure where-unto baptism doth also now save us.” That baptism doth “NOW save us,” is certainly strong language, and it is a correct translation. But how save us? Look at the preceding verse, and you will see that Peter has reference to the analogy between salvation by the ark, and salvation by baptism. Both were dependent on faith; one on faith in the ark, the other on faith in Christ.

Then Ananias said unto Saul: “Why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” (Acts 22:16.)
That baptism is a saving ordinance, in that it washes away sin, is here implied. But how does it wash away sin? Not by actually washing away sin from the soul; but by expressing faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, which leads to our justification.


Clarence Larkin, Why I Am a Baptist

 

[Doug Brents]

BAPTISM NOT ESSENTIAL TO SALVATION

Baptists do not believe that baptism is essential to salvation, for baptism is mentioned in the New Testament as distinct from the gospel of salvation.

Those who hold that baptism is essential to salvation, quote John 3:5: “Except a man be born of water, and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God,” and they add, “What then is to become of those who are too sick to be immersed? Are they to be shut out of the kingdom of heaven?

This last question presumes that the default condition of man is toward salvation. The default position of man is toward condemnation, and we must reach out to God to receive His forgiveness and restoration. There is a "too late", and those who become too sick to be immersed, or those who die suddenly, etc. discover that it is now too late to become saved, regardless of how much they "believe" in Christ. Scripture says that at Judgement every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord, but at that point it will be too late for that confession to make any difference in their eternal destiny. It is in this life, while we still have time and ability to honor Christ, that we must become obedient to Him, bend the knee to Him, and confess that He is Lord; NOW, while it can make a difference.

If the words—“born of water”—mean baptism, which is disputed, the fact that the want of baptism will not keep any one out of heaven, if circumstances forbid its being administered, is clearly shown in Christ’s words to the dying thief: “Verily I say unto thee, to-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43.) The thief was not baptized, and was saved; and for all we know, Simon who was baptized, was lost.
“Then Simon.… was baptized.… But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee.… Thou has neither part nor lot in this matter; for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.” (Acts 8:13–20.) So was Judas Iscariot.

Simon seems to have been repentant after this statement of Peter, and so his continuing condemnation is not certain. Nothing more is said of him in Scripture, but he appears to have still been a saved member of the Church. The thief was given assurance of salvation before Jesus' death. His salvation falls under the OT, not the NT, so is does not set any kind of precedent for salvation without baptism.

In 1 Peter 3:21, we read—“The like figure where-unto baptism doth also now save us.” That baptism doth “NOW save us,” is certainly strong language, and it is a correct translation. But how save us? Look at the preceding verse, and you will see that Peter has reference to the analogy between salvation by the ark, and salvation by baptism. Both were dependent on faith; one on faith in the ark, the other on faith in Christ.

Certainly it is faith in Christ that brings about salvation. But as this verse says, it is faith in Christ demonstrated in the obedience of baptism that saves us.

Then Ananias said unto Saul: “Why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” (Acts 22:16.)
That baptism is a saving ordinance, in that it washes away sin, is here implied. But how does it wash away sin? Not by actually washing away sin from the soul; but by expressing faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, which leads to our justification.

Since Scripture makes the case, here and in 1 Pet 3:21, that baptism is inextricably linked with salvation (the washing away of our sins) through faith in Christ Jesus, why are baptists so opposed to Scripture that they would dissolve that link?

 

[Truther]

Christ most certainly is the center of my faith, and the faith of all of the people in the Church of Christ that I know personally. The only reason I ride baptism so hard is because of the false doctrine taught by so many today in opposition to the Biblical truth of salvation at the point of baptism.

When teaching a person who does not know Christ, baptism is not my focus, Christ is. But when discussing with someone, like yourself, who knows Christ and has a good foundation in the Scriptures, baptism becomes one of the only major points of disagreement.

If the COC would only finish the reformation and baptize in the name of Jesus instead of the titles.

They need to finally cut ties with the RCC in this matter.

 

[Believe]

Since Scripture makes the case, here and in 1 Pet 3:21, that baptism is inextricably linked with salvation (the washing away of our sins) through faith in Christ Jesus, why are baptists so opposed to Scripture that they would dissolve that link?

That's a generalized statement. Just because Baptist understand what salvation means in no way shape or form can you say that they're opposed to the rest of scripture. They understand the link between baptism and salvation perfectly. As it's been explained perfectly over and over in this thread.

Justification is by faith alone. That little word by is critical to our understanding of how justification takes place. Justification is not dependent upon baptism.

Patient is not ex "opere operato", which means literally, “From the working of the work. Baptism Is a work performed by man. One man performing the baptism and one man receiving the baptism. It's like a welcoming ceremony. Welcome to the family of God.

 

[Doug Brents]

If the COC would only finish the reformation and baptize in the name of Jesus instead of the titles.

They need to finally cut ties with the RCC in this matter.

The titles are what Jesus Himself instructed us to baptize in, so I don't know what your deal is.

 

[Believe]

The titles are what Jesus Himself instructed us to baptize in, so I don't know what your deal is.

We know you don't. But there's still hope for you.

 

[Doug Brents]

That's a generalized statement. Just because Baptist understand what salvation means in no way shape or form can you say that they're opposed to the rest of scripture. They understand the link between baptism and salvation perfectly. As it's been explained perfectly over and over in this thread.

If you, and by extension they, believe that salvation occurs before baptism, and that the first act of obedience after salvation is baptism, then you are on the wrong side of Scripture. Violation of any one aspect of the Law constitutes violation of the whole Law (and this applies to all Laws: the Law of Moses, the Law of Christ, etc.), and so ignoring Scripture's mandate that salvation occurs during baptism constitutes ignoring the whole of the NT.

Justification is by faith alone. That little word by is critical to our understanding of how justification takes place. Justification is not dependent upon baptism.

Justification is NOT by faith alone (James 2:24 - "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."). Faith without action is dead, and dead faith cannot bring life (salvation).

Patient is not ex "opere operato", which means literally, “From the working of the work. Baptism Is a work performed by man. One man performing the baptism and one man receiving the baptism. It's like a welcoming ceremony. Welcome to the family of God.

It is so much more than just a "welcoming ceremony". It is the moment when we die to sin (Rom 6:2-4), it is the moment when the Holy Spirit cuts our sin from us (Col 2:11-12), it is the moment when we are united with Jesus' resurrection (Rom 6:4-7 , Col 2:13), it is the moment when our sins are washed away (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16).

 

[Doug Brents]

We know you don't. But there's still hope for you.

Bless you!