What is the difference between eternal security, once saved always saved, and perseverance of the saints?

Hosanna said:
The three different terms (eternal security, once saved always saved, and perseverance of the saints) are often used interchangeably. However, there are subtle differences between them even though they basically mean the same thing – that a person cannot lose his salvation. Critics of eternal security in Christ often assert various challenges to the position, including misrepresentations and incomplete representation of the position. Nevertheless, though I cannot find any “official” definition for each of the three terms, by looking through theological dictionaries, various websites, writings, etc., I’ve come up with the following information.

  1. Eternal Security is the teaching that all who are Christians and are truly regenerated are eternally secure in their salvation and will never fall away because their salvation is dependent on Christ’s faithfulness and work. It was Jesus who completely redeemed them of all their sins and their actions, and goodness does not maintain their salvation. It is God who secures the believer. But, this does not mean those thus saved will not fall into sin. Instead, though they may backslide, they will never fully turn from God and fall out of the state of his grace. Furthermore, it means God will work in the conviction and discipline of the believer who backslides.
  2. Perseverance of the Saints is often equated with eternal security. It means that once a person is truly born again, God will work through the person so that the person will persevere throughout his life and not lose his salvation. It emphasizes God’s work and ability to perfect the Christian (Philippians 1:6) and that Christians are sealed permanently with Him (Ephesians 1:13-14).
  3. Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) is the position that no matter what a person does he will remain saved. He is always saved once he is saved. This position also includes the reality of regeneration since anyone who is truly saved is also truly regenerated. Regeneration produces in the person a desire to serve God and avoid sin (Romans 7:18-25). However, like eternal security, those who adhere to once saved always saved acknowledge that Christians can backslide.
Critics of eternal security often cite various verses in an attempt to show that a Christian can lose his salvation. The logic is that a Christian can turn his back on God and stop believing, or do enough bad things to disqualify him from being saved. These verses are addressed in the CARM section dealing with eternal security. Furthermore, these same critics often state that if a person believes he cannot lose his salvation, then it is a license to sin. This is not the position of those who hold to eternal security. We are regenerated; and because of regeneration from God, we war against our sin (Romans 7:18-25). We do not consider it a license to sin because we are new creatures (2 Cor. 5:17). Furthermore, anyone who claims to be a Christian and purposely uses God’s grace in order to sin is demonstrating that he is not regenerate because he is acting in a manner that contradicts regeneration (1 John 2:4).

Matt Slick
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Hey Hosanna
The above was stolen since it's practically 100% of a thread of mine from a few years ago.

So who do I sue for plagiarism?
You or Mat Slick?
🤣🤣🤣
 
GodsGrace said:
Hey Hosanna
The above was stolen since it's practically 100% of a thread of mine from a few years ago.

So who do I sue for plagiarism?
You or Mat Slick?
🤣🤣🤣
Click to expand...
Here is the link

carm.org

What is the difference between eternal security, once saved always saved, and perseverance of the saints? | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Explore Christian Apologetics, theology, and critical answers to today's questions about God, the Bible, and the Christian faith at Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry.
carm.org carm.org
 
Hosanna said:
Here is the link

carm.org

What is the difference between eternal security, once saved always saved, and perseverance of the saints? | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Explore Christian Apologetics, theology, and critical answers to today's questions about God, the Bible, and the Christian faith at Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry.
carm.org carm.org
Click to expand...
Looks like a forum.
I don't like to change forums or try different ones. This is the 3rd forum I've tried in over 10 years.
 
mailmandan said:
In Titus 3:5, we read that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, we read that God saved us and called us with a holy calling not according to our works.. So once again, Paul is not merely limiting works only to specific works under the law and when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, one cannot dissect works of obedience/good works from the law. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:37-40; James 2:15-16)
Click to expand...
I'm not going to get too involved in this Dan....
but what does it take to understand the scriptures?

Look at the very verses you posted:
Titus 3:5 You're words: it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.

and

2 Timothy 2:19 it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.

In both cases, Paul is speaking in the past tense....
It is not of works WE HAVE DONE that we're saved.
Because works cannot save us....God is not interested in our works UNLESS we are born again and are His children.

The lost are not required to do good works (although some of them do more than I do for sure).
It is the SAVED, SONS OF GOD that are required to do good works/deeds.

It's all over the NT.
I'll post some verses for those reading along:

Matthew 5:16 speaking to believers
16In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.


Ephesians 2:10
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


Hebrews 13:16
16Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.


Galatians 6:9
9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

In the above, Paul is speaking to believers. He uses the words WE and US.

Even unbelievers could do good works....but they count for nothing because the doer is not worshipping or glorifying God.
The reason that believers are required to do good works is because Jesus intended to set up the Kingdom of God here on earth...
to create a better place for us while we await the end of this life.

The only way to do this is IF we do good and share our faith with others in an attempt to change the world.
Now, of course, we do these good works BECAUSE we are saved,,,as I stated the unsaved are not required to do good works except as they please...instead we are.

Jesus came to save our souls and to make a better world.
It's up to us to do this.

Jesus said that if we love Him, we will keep His commandments.
All the works verses are for believers.

We do them because we believe.
But if we do NOT do good works/deeds we are no longer abiding in Christ.
John 15:5
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing *.
6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


I think it's time for us to stop being afraid of the word WORKS...it means good deeds,
which we are required to do to please God.

We do them because it pleases the Holy Spirit and He gives us the strength...
that does not take away from the fact that we are required to do them.
 
Last edited:
GodsGrace said:
Interesting indeed.
I had a thread on this exact subject.
But I didn't copy it from anyone...

Actually, I think it's important to know the difference between the 3 soteriological doctrine.
I'll go through this thread after dinner.

Thanks for the post.
Click to expand...
Sounds good, I would to read your input and learn more on the difference between then.
 
Unmerited said:
Sounds good, I would to read your input and learn more on the difference between then.
Click to expand...
Hi Unmerited,,,,
There are important differences between the 3 teachings on this topic, and,
as usual, only one of them could be correct.

So...in a nutshell, here they are:

OSAS ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED
This teaching states that once we have accepted Jesus as our personal Savior...a person could go on to committing ANY sin and for any period of time, and still be saved. A member on a different forum once stated that God could be blasphemed...and the person would still be saved.

ETERNAL SECURITY
Eternal security teaches that a person can be assured of their salvation IF they remain in Christ...IF they abide in Christ.
IF they obey what the NT teaches.

PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS
Only the Reformed/Calvinist believers adhere to this belief system.
It teaches that God chooses who will be saved and who will be damned forever.
Those that God chooses to be saved...HE will make obedient and bring them to the end
of their lives having kept them saved.


We all fall into one of these 3 categories.
Which one seems the most biblical to you?
 
We are secure in our salvation because the God in whom we have put our trust in preserves us in that faith, apart from which there is no hope or eternal life.

God will preserve us in our faith even though at times we may doubt and wander away from the path of righteousness. But he will always remain true to his promise by ensuring that none of his children will fall so far as to finally and forever fail.

8 And He will establish you to the end [keep you steadfast, give you strength, and guarantee your vindication; He will be your warrant against all accusation or indictment so that you will be] guiltless and irreproachable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah).
9 God is faithful (reliable, trustworthy, and therefore ever true to His promise, and He can be depended on); by Him you were called into companionship and participation with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Corinthians 1:8–9

And I am convinced and sure of this very thing, that He Who began a good work in you will continue until the day of Jesus Christ [right up to the time of His return], developing [that good work] and perfecting and bringing it to full completion in you. Philippians 1:6

Now to Him Who is able to keep you without stumbling or slipping or falling, and to present [you] unblemished (blameless and faultless) before the presence of His glory in triumphant joy and exultation [with unspeakable, ecstatic delight] Jude 24

God will do it man. He will never leave us or by any means forsake us.

Himself has said, I will not in any way fail you nor give you up nor leave you without support. [I will] not, [I will] not, [I will] not in any degree leave you helpless nor forsake nor let [you] down (relax My hold on you)! [Assuredly not!] Heb. 13:5

Which means he will do whatever is necessary to guarantee that we will never leave him or forsake his Son.
 
GodsGrace said:
I'm not going to get too involved in this Dan....
but what does it take to understand the scriptures?

Look at the very verses you posted:
Titus 3:5 You're words: it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.

and

2 Timothy 2:19 it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.

In both cases, Paul is speaking in the past tense....
It is not of works WE HAVE DONE that we're saved.
Because works cannot save us....God is not interested in our works UNLESS we are born again and are His children.

The lost are not required to do good works (although some of them do more than I do for sure).
It is the SAVED, SONS OF GOD that are required to do good works/deeds.

It's all over the NT.
I'll post some verses for those reading along:

Matthew 5:16 speaking to believers
16In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:10
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Hebrews 13:16
16Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Galatians 6:9
9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

In the above, Paul is speaking to believers. He uses the words WE and US.

Even unbelievers could do good works....but they count for nothing because the doer is not worshipping or glorifying God.
The reason that believers are required to do good works is because Jesus intended to set up the Kingdom of God here on earth...
to create a better place for us while we await the end of this life.

The only way to do this is IF we do good and share our faith with others in an attempt to change the world.
Now, of course, we do these good works BECAUSE we are saved,,,as I stated the unsaved are not required to do good works except as they please...instead we are.

Jesus came to save our souls and to make a better world.
It's up to us to do this.

Jesus said that if we love Him, we will keep His commandments.
All the works verses are for believers.

We do them because we believe.
But if we do NOT do good works/deeds we are no longer abiding in Christ.
John 15:5
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing *.
6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

I think it's time for us to stop being afraid of the word WORKS...it means good deeds,
which we are required to do to please God.

We do them because it pleases the Holy Spirit and He gives us the strength...
that does not take away from the fact that we are required to do them.
Click to expand...
We are clearly saved FOR good works (Ephesians 2:10) and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Good works glorify our Father in heaven (Matthew 5:16) and are good and profitable to men. (Titus 3:8) It's not about being afraid of the word WORKS. It's about putting good works in their proper place, "subsequent to made alive together with Christ/saved by grace through faith/created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works." (Ephesians 2:5-10)
 
Marion said:
We are secure in our salvation because the God in whom we have put our trust in preserves us in that faith, apart from which there is no hope or eternal life.

God will preserve us in our faith even though at times we may doubt and wander away from the path of righteousness. But he will always remain true to his promise by ensuring that none of his children will fall so far as to finally and forever fail.

8 And He will establish you to the end [keep you steadfast, give you strength, and guarantee your vindication; He will be your warrant against all accusation or indictment so that you will be] guiltless and irreproachable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah).
9 God is faithful (reliable, trustworthy, and therefore ever true to His promise, and He can be depended on); by Him you were called into companionship and participation with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Corinthians 1:8–9

And I am convinced and sure of this very thing, that He Who began a good work in you will continue until the day of Jesus Christ [right up to the time of His return], developing [that good work] and perfecting and bringing it to full completion in you. Philippians 1:6

Now to Him Who is able to keep you without stumbling or slipping or falling, and to present [you] unblemished (blameless and faultless) before the presence of His glory in triumphant joy and exultation [with unspeakable, ecstatic delight] Jude 24

God will do it man. He will never leave us or by any means forsake us.

Himself has said, I will not in any way fail you nor give you up nor leave you without support. [I will] not, [I will] not, [I will] not in any degree leave you helpless nor forsake nor let [you] down (relax My hold on you)! [Assuredly not!] Heb. 13:5

Which means he will do whatever is necessary to guarantee that we will never leave him or forsake his Son.
Click to expand...
Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. :)
 
Dizerner said:
They're all evil and unbiblical.

The Bible clearly warns us we can fall away.
Click to expand...
They're ALL evil and unbiblical?

One of them has to be right Dizerner because those are the only choices.

So,,,go back and discern which one you believe to be correct and then come back.
 
mailmandan said:
We are clearly saved FOR good works (Ephesians 2:10) and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Good works glorify our Father in heaven (Matthew 5:16) and are good and profitable to men. (Titus 3:8) It's not about being afraid of the word WORKS. It's about putting good works in their proper place, "subsequent to made alive together with Christ/saved by grace through faith/created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works." (Ephesians 2:5-10)
Click to expand...
And what did I say Dan?
I stated the above.

You forgot to read THE REST OF THE STORY.

Give it a go.

You've NEVER in all these years answered the following question: (my name wasn't always GodsGrace)

ARE WE REQUIRED TO DO GOOD WORKS AFTER SALVATION?

It's a simple YES or NO.

I say YES.
 
GodsGrace said:
And what did I say Dan?
I stated the above.

You forgot to read THE REST OF THE STORY.

Give it a go.

You've NEVER in all these years answered the following question: (my name wasn't always GodsGrace)

ARE WE REQUIRED TO DO GOOD WORKS AFTER SALVATION?

It's a simple YES or NO.

I say YES.
Click to expand...
Those who have been saved by grace through faith, not works, have been made alive together with Christ (Ephesians 2:5-9) and are now God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10) Try not to over think it.
 
mailmandan said:
Those who have been saved by grace through faith, not works, have been made alive together with Christ (Ephesians 2:5-9) and are now God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10) Try not to over think it.
Click to expand...
Still no answer.

Are we required to do good works or not?
AFTER salvation.

Must I post 10's of verses AGAIN?

This is not over-thinking....
it's properly understanding scripture.

Jesus said if we do not bear fruit we will be cut away:

John 15:1-2
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.


I think that we should adhere to what Jesus taught.
 
Assurance has the power to revolutionize our effective witnessing for Christ. People without certainty are rightfully reluctant to share their faith. What good news do they have to share with others? After all, they aren’t sure where they’re going when they die so they live each day in fear of hell. The best they can do is “help” others be unsure where they’re going as well! Only those who are certain have a powerful motivation to tell others what they’ve discovered.

If you are certain you are eternally secure by faith in Jesus, then you have grounds for great love for the Lord Jesus. Gratitude is the natural response to such love. But if you aren’t certain, then you need to settle that issue first so that you can experience the power of gratitude and really live.
 
Rowan said:
Assurance has the power to revolutionize our effective witnessing for Christ. People without certainty are rightfully reluctant to share their faith. What good news do they have to share with others? After all, they aren’t sure where they’re going when they die so they live each day in fear of hell. The best they can do is “help” others be unsure where they’re going as well! Only those who are certain have a powerful motivation to tell others what they’ve discovered.

If you are certain you are eternally secure by faith in Jesus, then you have grounds for great love for the Lord Jesus. Gratitude is the natural response to such love. But if you aren’t certain, then you need to settle that issue first so that you can experience the power of gratitude and really live.
Click to expand...
WHAT IS the good news?
And where does it state we can be eternally secure?
 

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