Even in John 1, Jesus is not God
- Thread starter Wrangler
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EclipseEventSigns
Well-known member
I know. Right? @APAK really does not seem to know how to read and comprehend entire passages of Scripture. He's doing drive by potshots. People like him are really not worth the time. They aren't here to discuss things.
101G
Well-known member
Wrangler said! "I’ve often thought about this regarding the Lord’s Prayer.
Hallowed by thy name. That would have been an excellent place to articulate again just what is this name to be kept holy.
Nonetheless, the eternal divine name is known by all Jews".
Answer, John 5:43.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
Romans 15:1 "We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves." Romans 15:2 "Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification." Romans 15:3 "For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me." Romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
101G.
101G
Well-known member
@EclipseEventSigns,
many do not understand John 1:1 fully. there is enough here for us all to learn from.
101G.
many do not understand John 1:1 fully. there is enough here for us all to learn from.
101G.
EclipseEventSigns
Well-known member
There's also the one about pearls before swine. Something about those that treat the truths with disdain. And shaking the dust from the sandals. Seem to recall those teachings too.
101G
Well-known member
101G
Well-known member
@EclipseEventSigns,
as for shaking off the dust, in the world yes, but those who are called, one plant, another water, but it is God who gives the INCREASE.
101G
as for shaking off the dust, in the world yes, but those who are called, one plant, another water, but it is God who gives the INCREASE.
101G
EclipseEventSigns
Well-known member
"swine" has a bad connotation in modern language. It just means pigs. And the passage (Matt 7:1-6) is in the passage about dealing with your fellow brother/sister. There has to be openness on the part of the listener and respect for your message before there's even the chance for teaching to happen.
101G
Well-known member
to all,
John 1:1 is clearly showing MAN what is the ECHAD of God. the Word of God is God Himself "EQUALLY SHARED" in flesh, supportive scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" NOTE not equal "TO" God, but equal "WITH". one need to understand the term "WITH".
101G.
John 1:1 is clearly showing MAN what is the ECHAD of God. the Word of God is God Himself "EQUALLY SHARED" in flesh, supportive scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" NOTE not equal "TO" God, but equal "WITH". one need to understand the term "WITH".
101G.
101G
Well-known member
patience is the KEY. have Faith that all will hear. Faith cometh by hearing, nor just one time.
101G.
civic
Well-known member
In John 1:1 there was no flesh- In the beginnig in John 1:1 is the same beginning in Gen 1:1- it predates the creation when there was God alone in existence.
hope this helps !!!
EclipseEventSigns
Well-known member
Again, not applicable. Jesus instruction was not the "world". (Matt 10:5) Jesus had instructions to specifically NOT go to the Gentiles at that point. He was telling his disciples to teach their brethren who knew the One true God already. If they were shown disdain, then move on.
101G
Well-known member
John 1:1 is not the same beginning in Genesis 1:1. John 1:1 is the Beginning of the NEW CREATION in Christ Jesus. in John 1:1 there is flesh not at Genesis 1:1
101G.
civic
Well-known member
No its the same beginning.
Lets begin at the very first part of verse 1a.
In the beginning was the Word.
en arche en ho logos
εν αρχη ην ο λογος
the phrase "in the beginning" is "en arche". Now if you look in the Septuagint at Genesis 1:1 we find this:
εν αρχη εποιησεν ο θεος
Now the question we need to ask ourselves is what does in the beginning mean ? One must always remember that context always determines the meaning of words and phrases. If we compare Genesis with John which is exactly what John is doing in his opening to his gospel we can clearly see his point. Moses and John both are discussing the creation of "all things". That makes the passages parallel. Here a some parallels to consider:
1- in the beginning
2- Theos( God) appears in both opening verses
3- Both talk about the creation of all things
4- both use egeneto εγενετο, came into being or existence
5- both use and contrast light and darkness
εν αρχη refers to the beginning of time. Now if John didn't mean the beginning of time he could of easily used another word that he often used which would be the word from"apo" instead of en. He could of also used the phrase came into being(egeneto) to refer to the Word in 1a but he did not. John made it very clear that the Word in his gospel is equal to the God in Genesis.
Now lets look at the verb was"en". This is in the imperfect tense meaning continuous existence. By its very definition it has the meaning of eternal, without beginning. Therefor the Words existence transcends time and is eternal. Here is Dr. Robertson below:
In the beginning (en arch). Arch is definite, though anarthrous like our at home, in town, and the similar Hebrew be reshith in Genesis 1:1 . But Westcott notes that here John carries our thoughts beyond the beginning of creation in time to eternity. There is no argument here to prove the existence of God any more than in Genesis. It is simply assumed. Either God exists and is the Creator of the universe as scientists like Eddington and Jeans assume or matter is eternal or it has come out of nothing. Was (hn). Three times in this sentence John uses this imperfect of eimi to be which conveys no idea of origin for God or for the Logos, simply continuous existence. Quite a different verb (egeneto, became) appears in verse Genesis 14 for the beginning of the Incarnation of the Logos. See the distinction sharply drawn in Genesis 8:58 "before Abraham came (genesqai) I am" (eimi, timeless existence).
From here we can now look to see who the Word is in John 1:1.
Now that we have established the meaning of the beginning in John 1:1a we can move on to the identity of the Word.
Whoever the Word is , He was alongside God (with Him) and was God. But how can the Word be with God and also be God? Lets examine 1b The Word was with God. John here is making a distinction between the Word and God. The Word existed eternally with God, for the Word (logos) was in perfect fellowship with God. Pros with the accusative shows equality and intimacy, face to face with each other. This clearly reveals a relationship between the logos and theon in 1b. In (Moulton and Milligan Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament)"the knowledge of our intimacy with one another" is used to speak of the relationship between the logos and God.
The Word was God- και θεος ην ο λογος . Theos here is without the article. It is predicative and describes the nature of the Word. The absence of the article indicates that the Word is God. If “o theos” had been written then it would mean that no divine being existed outside of the Word. Johns whole gospel comes forth from this verse. The Word is who his gospel is written about and as we will see the words and deeds of Jesus are the words and deeds of God.
John 1:14 and the Word became flesh- και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο. Second aorist middle indicative of ginomai which means came into existence, He became flesh. The Word in one single event is history became man as opposed to “eimi” being or always existed. So we can clearly see the Word who is eternal came into existence in the flesh at a single point in time .
Now if we read further in John we can see that the Word dwelt among us (tabernacled).The Word entering a new mode of existence, became flesh, and lived in a tent (His physical body-a tabernacle) among us. And we beheld His glory.
This Word John the Baptist identifies as Jesus- the Incarnate Eternal Son who was together with the Father before creation- cf John 17:5..
15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.
John 1:29-31
29The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30"This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.
How was the "Word made flesh"? By the miracle of the Virgin Birth (Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:18-25, Luke 1:26-38). He took on Himself sinless human nature and identified with us in every aspect of our life from birth to death. "The Word" was not an abstract concept of philosophy, a thought or an idea but a real person who could be seen, touched, and heard. The gospel is Christ and Christ is God.
The revelation of God's glory is an important theme in Johns Gospel. Jesus revealed God's glory in His person, His works, and His words. Jesus works, words and deeds are Gods works, words and deeds. That is why He could say he who has seen me has seen the Father because they are one in essence. Jesus could say as well that before Abraham was “I Am” (the self existing One) and taking upon Himself the divine name that God gave to Moses. This is the same wording in the Septuagint.
conclusion: Johns prologue is a parallel passage of Genesis 1:1 in the beginnning.
hope this helps !!!
EclipseEventSigns
Well-known member
Let's look at the Aramaic Peshitta. Again a text as ancient as the Greek text. The very first word of John 1:1 is the similar word that occurs in the Hebrew Genesis 1:1. In the Galilean Aramaic dialect it very clearly is referring to the Beginning of Creation.
| brˀšyt (brā/ēšīṯ) n.m. The Beginning 1 The Beginning , i.e., Creation JLAtg, Gal, PTA, Sam, Syr, Man, LJLA. --(a) mn b' : from Creation, at Creation JLAtg, Gal, Syr, LJLA. |
Word 'br$yt'
dukhrana.com
Fool4Christ
Active member
That the New Testament is full of references to the divinity of Christ is difficult to deny. In the earliest days of Christianity, a heretic named Arius gained popularity by teaching Jesus was not of the same nature as God the Father.
Arius claimed Jesus was merely a man, and his teaching threatened to overwhelm the church until this heresy was rejected at the Council of Nicaea. Yet Arianism has found new life today in those who claim Jesus was a great moral teacher and a wonderful example to follow, but nothing more. They reject the biblical truth that Jesus is both fully human and fully God.
The apostle Paul refers to the divinity of Christ when he calls Jesus our "great God and Savior" Titus 2:13 and even says that Jesus existed in the "form of God" prior to His incarnation Philippians 2:5-8
Arius claimed Jesus was merely a man, and his teaching threatened to overwhelm the church until this heresy was rejected at the Council of Nicaea. Yet Arianism has found new life today in those who claim Jesus was a great moral teacher and a wonderful example to follow, but nothing more. They reject the biblical truth that Jesus is both fully human and fully God.
The apostle Paul refers to the divinity of Christ when he calls Jesus our "great God and Savior" Titus 2:13 and even says that Jesus existed in the "form of God" prior to His incarnation Philippians 2:5-8
Wrangler
Well-known member
What would disprove the trinitarian argument?
Wrangler
Well-known member
Wearing anyone else out is their only path to "victory."
GeneZ
Well-known member
The question not asked often enough, is why He was able to become as a man.
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