Even in John 1, Jesus is not God

[APAK]

4. THE DIVINE NAMES AND TITLES.


I. Elohim occurs 2.700 times. Its first occurrence connects it with creation , and give it its essential meaning as the Creator . It indicates His relation to mankind as His creatures (see note on 2Ch_18:31, where it stands in contrast with Jehovah as indicating covenant relationship ). 'Elohim is God the Son, the living "WORD" with creature form to create (Joh_1:1. Col_1:15-17. Rev_3:14); and later, with human form to redeem (Joh_1:14). "Begotten of His Father before all worlds; born of His mother, in the world." In this creature form He appeared to the Patriarchs, a form not temporarily assumed. 'Elohim is indicated (as in A.V.) by ordinary small type, "God". See table on page 7.
II. Jehovah . While Elohim is God as the Creator of all things, Jehovah is the same God in covenant relation to those whom He has created (Cp. 2Ch_18:31). Jehovah means the Eternal , the Immutable One, He Who WAS, and IS, and IS TO COME. The Divine definition is given in Gen_21:33. He is especially, therefore, the God of Israel; and the God of those who are redeemed, and are thus now "in Christ". We can say "My God," but not "My Jehovah", for Jehovah is "MY God."

Jehovah is indicated (as in A.V.) by small capital letters, "LORD"' and by "GOD" when it occurs in combination with Adonai, in which case LORD GOD = Adonai Jehovah. The name Jehovah is combined with ten other words, which form what are known as "the Jehovah Titles." in the Hebrew Canon (Ap. 1). All are noted in the margin, in all their occurrences:--
1. JEHOVAH-JIREH = Jehovah will see, or provide. Gen_22:14.
2. JEHOVAH-ROPHEKA = Jehovah that healeth thee. Exo_15:26.
3. JEHOVAH-NISSI = Jehovah my banner. Exo_17:15.
4. JEHOVAH-MeKADDISHKEM = Jehovah that doth sanctify you. Exo_31:13. Lev_20:8; Lev_21:8; Lev_22:32. Eze_20:12.
5. JEHOVAH-SHALOM = Jehovah [send] peace. Jdg_6:24.
6. JEHOVAH-ZeBA'OTH = Jehovah of hosts. 1Sa_1:3, and frequently.
7. JEHOVAH-ZIDKENU = Jehovah our righteousness. Jer_23:6; Jer_33:16.
8. JEHOVAH-SHAMMAH = Jehovah is there. Eze_48:35.
9. JEHOVAH-ELYON = Jehovah most high. Psa_7:17; Psa_47:2; Psa_97:9.
10. JEHOVAH-RO'I = Jehovah my Shepherd. Psa_23:1.
We have seven of these, experimentally referred to, in Ps. 23, inasmuch as Jehovah, the "Good," "Great," and "Chief Shepherd," is engaged, in all the perfection of His attributes, on behalf of His sheep:--
In verse 1, we have No. 1 above.
In verse 2, we have No. 5.
In verse 3, we have Nos. 2 and 7.
In verse 4, we have No. 8.
In verse 5, we have Nos. 3 and 4.
III. Jah is Jehovah in a special sense and relation. Jehovah as having BECOME our Salvation (first occ. Exo_15:2), He Who IS, and WAS, and IS TO COME. It occurs 49 times (7 x 7. See Ap. 10). Compare Psa_68:4; Psa_68:18.
IV. EL is essentially the Almighty , thought the word is never so rendered (see below, "Shaddai"). EL is Elohim in all His strength and power. It is rendered "God" as Elohim is, but El is God the Omnipotent. Elohim is God the Creator putting His omnipotence into operation. Eloah (see below) is God Who wills and orders all, and Who is to be the one object of the worship of His people. El is the God Who knows all (first occ. Gen_14:18-22) and sees all (Gen_16:13) and that performeth all things for His people (Psa_57:2); and in Whom all the Divine attributes are concentrated.

El is indicated in this edition by type in large capital letters, thus: "GOD." It is sometimes transliterated in proper names Immanue- 'el , Beth- 'el , &c., where it is translated, as explained in the margin.
V. Eloah is Elohim, Who is to be worshipped. Eloah is God in connection with His Will rather than His power. The first occurrence associates this name with worship (Deu_32:15-17). Hence it is the title used whenever the contrast (latent or expressed) is with false gods or idols. Eloah is essentially "the living God" in contrast to inanimate idols. Eloah is rendered "God", but we have indicated it by type thus: GOD.
VI. Elyon first occurs in Gen_14:18 with El , and is rendered "the most high (God)". It is El and Elohim, not as the powerful Creator, but as "the possessor of heaven and earth." Hence the name is associated with Christ as the Son of "the Highest" (Luk_1:35). It is Elyon, as possessor of the earth, Who divides the nations "their inheritance". In Psa_83:18, He is "over all the earth". The title occurs 36 times (6 x 6 or 62 See Ap. 10).

Elyon is the Dispenser of God's blessings in the earth; the blessings proceeding from a Priest Who is a King upon His throne (cp. Gen_14:18-22 with Zec_6:13; Zec_14:9).
VII. Shaddai is in every instance translated "Almighty", and is indicated by small capital letters ("ALMIGHTY"). It is God ( El ), not as the source of strength, but of grace ; not as Creator, but as the Giver . Shaddai is the All-bountiful. This title does not refer to His creative power, but to His power to supply all the needs of His people. Its first occurrence is in Gen_17:1, and is used to show Abraham that He Who called him out to walk alone before Him could supply all his need. Even so it is the title used in 2Co_6:18, where we are cal 1000 led to "come out" in separation from the world. It is always used in connection with El (see above).
VIII. Adon is one of the three titles (ADON, ADONAI, and ADONIM), all generally rendered "Lord"; but each has its own peculiar usage and association. They all denote headship in various aspects. They have to do with God as "over-lord."
1. Adon is the Lord as Ruler in the earth. We have indicated this in type by printing the preceding article or pronouns in small capitals, not because either are to be emphasized, but to distinguish the word "Lord" from Adonai , which is always so printed in the A.V.
2. Adonai is the Lord in His relation to the earth; and as carrying out His purposes of blessing in the earth. With this limitation it is almost equivalent to Jehovah. Indeed, it was from an early date so used, by associating the vowel points of the word Jehovah with Adon , thus converting Adon into Adonai . A list of 134 passages where this was deliberately done is preserved and given in the Massorah (107-115). We have indicated these by printing the word like Jehovah, putting an asterisk, thus: LORD*.
3. Adonim is the plural of Adon , never used of man. Adonim carries with it all that Adon does, but in a greater and higher degree; and more especially as owner and proprietor . An Adon may rule others who do not belong to him. Hence (without the article) it is often used of men. But Adonim is the Lord Who rules His own. We have indicated it by type, thus: LORD.


The three may be thus briefly distinguished:--
Adon is the Lord as overlord or ruler .
Adonim is the Lord as owner .
Adonai is the Lord as blesser .

IX. The Types used to indicate the above titles, in the text, are as follows:--
· God = Elohim .
· GOD = Jehovah (in combination with Adonai , "Lord").
· GOD* = Jehovah in the Primitive Texts, altered by Sopherim to Elohim as the Printed Text.
· GOD = El.
· GOD = Eloah .
· LORD = Jehovah .
· THE LORD = Jah .
· LORD* = Jehovah in the Primitive Texts, altered by Sopherim to Adonai as in the Printed Text.
· Lord = Adonai.
· LORD = Adonim .
· ALMIGHTY = Shaddai .
· MOST HIGH = Elyon .

The Combinations are indicated as follows:--
Adonai Jehovah = Lord GOD.

Jehovah Elohim = LORD God.

Elyon El = MOST HIGH GOD.

El Shaddai = GOD ALMIGHTY.
Bullinger.

So, Johann, an impressive typical source dump of yours and this time from E W Bullinger. So what am I to do with this 'mess.'? Do you think it enhances and supports my postI returned to Doug then?? I think it does and so you must agree with my more abbreviated assessment.

If you disagree then can you explain yourself using your copied source? Or does it readily say somehow that Christ or the Spirit of the Father God are both God(s) again....too funny.

Now I just noticed that in your 'dump' that Bullinger, the extreme Trinitarian and extreme dispensationalist might have been too abbreviated or you did not copy and paste his contents correctly.

LORD does not mean Adonim, it is lords. It more precisely means and by convention 'My Lords.' Eventhough LORD with its implication as a plural word still refers the MY LORD in spirit and thought! And it refers to the SINGLE person and personal name YHWH, always....I forgot to add this important point in before....

 

[Doug Brents]

And there it is! The final desperate gasp of a lost argument. Appeal to Threat.

There is no threat. Simply admission that I cannot change what you believe; only God can do so.

Again, I ask why do you teach what Jesus did not? Why does it not bother you that Jesus did not teach the trinity?* Of the many things wrong with the trinity, that it obviously violates the 1C, is top of the list. You call yourselves monotheists in theory but in practice, you obviously subscribe to 3 gods.

Not at all. I teach exactly what Jesus taught. He said on several occasions that He was God. He had made Himself lesser than the Father through personal choice, but He was equal in character, power, glory, ect. with the Father from eternity.

I find it funny how no one can answer how can anything be WITH someone and BE that same someone. The trinity is anti-Scriptural.

I am with my wife, and she and I are one, at the same time. Jesus was with the Father, and He and the Father are One, at the same time.

* something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

Yes, pretty much. If you do not believe that Jesus is God, then the Jesus in whom you believe is not equal to the task of paying the price for your sins.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are writing nonsense here ..: "Adoni and Adonai are a great discussion topic.." What! I just answered your post and now this subject YOU raised in the first place is now just great discussion topic. You just deflected and moved to something else entirely because you have no answer for it.
-------------------------------------------
This was your post:
"Yet there is only ONE Lord, Is Jesus Lord? or is the Father Lord? Which is it?

They are one and the same. Father = Lord. Jesus = Lord. Holy Spirit = Lord. For they are ALL the same God."
----------------------------------------------
"Inferences about Jesus' nature and origin must not contradict direct statements about who and what He is."
and "...but He is also LORD (Adonai) because He was and is God...." What!!

I just showed you hard evidence in how the usage of lord, Lord and LORD is derived in scripture and you still ignore it as irrelevant. It's is right on point. And then you continue to ramble on and throw chaff out to avoid any other ensuing serious discussion. You are not serious and interested in this topic and its truth at all.

It is irrelevant because it is not in the context of the New Covenant. None of the New Covenant writings about Jesus were written in Hebrew, and since the distinction you are drawing between Adoni and Adonai is a distinction between Hebrew words, it is a moot point. It also contradicts the many statements of Jesus Himself in claiming to be God; "before Abraham was, I AM."

 

[Johann]

LORD does not mean Adonim. It more precisely means and by convention 'My Lords.' Eventhough LORD with its implication as a plural word still refers the MY LORD in spirit and thought!

Topics God & YHWH


What is the difference between lord, Lord and LORD?
By Jeff A. Benner

If you have noticed, when you are reading your Bible in the King James Version (other versions will use these words similarly), you may have frequently come across the word “lord,” but you may not have noticed that this word is written three different ways: all lower-case letters (lord), all upper-case letters (LORD) and only the first letter in upper-case (Lord). Each of these styles of writing the word “lord” identifies different Hebrew words.

Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also? (Genesis 18:12, KJV)

And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: (Genesis 18:3, KJV)

And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; (Genesis 18:1, KJV)

lord

When you see the word “lord,” written in all lower-case letters, it is the Hebrew word אֲדוֹן (adon, Strong’s #113) and means “lord” or “master,” one who has authority over another. In the example above (Genesis 18:12) this word is a description of Abraham, Sarah’s “lord.”

Whenever this word is written as “lord” (all lower-case), this word is referring to men, but when this word is referring to God, then the first letter is written in upper-case (see Exodus 23:17).

Lord

Besides the few times the Hebrew word אֲדוֹן (adon) is written as “Lord,” the word “Lord” (first letter in upper-case) is used for the Hebrew word אֲדֹנָי (Adonai, Strong’s #136). While this word is translated as “Lord,” it doesn’t exactly mean “Lord.”

As previously mentioned, the Hebrew word for “lord” is אֲדוֹן (adon). When this word is written in the first person, possessive (my lord), it is written as אדֹנִי (adoniy, see Genesis 18:12). The plural form of the word אֲדוֹן (adon) is אֲדֹנִים (adonim, see Exodus 26:19). The first person, possessive, plural form (my lords) is written as אֲדוֹנָי (adonai, see 1 Kings 22:17).

אֲדוֹן adon lord
אדֹנִי adoniy my lord
אֲדֹנִים adonim lords
אֲדוֹנָי adonai my lords
If the Hebrew word Adonai literally means “my lords,” why is it only translated as “Lord” so many times (see Exodus 4:13 as an example)? Most names attributed to God are in the plural including Elohiym (literally meaning “powers”) and Shaddai (literally meaning “my breasts”). The word Adonai (a plural word) is another name used for God that means “my lords.”

LORD

When the word “lord” is written in all upper-case letters (LORD), the Hebrew behind this word is the name of God, יהוה (YHWH).

Lord God and LORD God

And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? (KJV, Genesis 15:8)
In this verse Hebrew phrase Lord GOD is written in Hebrew as; אדני יהוה, which transliterates as; Adonai YHWH. The word Elohiym is the Hebrew word for “God.” But in Genesis 15:8 the word “god” is written in all upper-case because it is the KJV’s translation of the name Yahweh. Because the word Adonai means “lord,” they couldn’t translate this as “Lord LORD,” so they chose to use the word “god” for Yahweh and wrote it in all upper-case letters (Author’s Note: Just another case of a translation disregarding the actual Hebrew text).

And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. (KJV, Genesis 2:15)
In this verse the phrase "LORD God" is written in the Hebrew as; יהוה אלהים, which transliterates as; YHWH Elohiym. The name Yahweh (whose pronunciation is debated) is the name of the God of the Bible. Throughout the Old Testament, the KJV, and most other translations, translate the Hebrew name Yahweh as “LORD,” in all upper-case, and this is the case in Genesis 2:15. Following this word is the Hebrew word Elohiym, which is often translated as "God."

Personally I think you have your metaphors scrambled-but I am not here to go into an intense "debate" with you @APAK

What is the difference between lord, Lord and LORD? | AHRC

The word

ancient-hebrew.org

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

I've been preaching 90 percent of this view for years now.

I love the NEV translation of John1 :1-4

(Joh 1:1) In the beginning was the word logos, and the word was towards God, and the word was Divine.

(Joh 1:2) This existed, in the beginning, with God.

(Joh 1:3) All things created came into existence on account of it; and without it nothing created came into existence.

(Joh 1:4) In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

And I agree that John 1:1c describes the quality core of God - being divine as his word.

"Jesus is not God" is the claim of the OP.

The Aramaic Peshitta very clearly equates the term "the word" with Jesus. The Peshitta is a text as ancient as the Greek text and both were written very close to each other when the author penned the original text. I write it this way so as not to introduce the fight of which language was written first.

The Aramaic term for "word" is a feminine noun. Yet, throughout these verses, the masculine pronouns are used along with it. The "word" is not some nebulous entity. It is very specifically equated with the masculine noun of God.

"At the beginning, he himself was the word. And the word himself was with God. And God himself was the word himself. This himself was at the beginning with God."

Analysis of Peshitta verse 'John 1:1'

There is no doubt that John is stating that Jesus is in fact God.

 

[APAK]

Topics God & YHWH


What is the difference between lord, Lord and LORD?
By Jeff A. Benner

If you have noticed, when you are reading your Bible in the King James Version (other versions will use these words similarly), you may have frequently come across the word “lord,” but you may not have noticed that this word is written three different ways: all lower-case letters (lord), all upper-case letters (LORD) and only the first letter in upper-case (Lord). Each of these styles of writing the word “lord” identifies different Hebrew words.

Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also? (Genesis 18:12, KJV)

And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: (Genesis 18:3, KJV)

And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; (Genesis 18:1, KJV)

lord

When you see the word “lord,” written in all lower-case letters, it is the Hebrew word אֲדוֹן (adon, Strong’s #113) and means “lord” or “master,” one who has authority over another. In the example above (Genesis 18:12) this word is a description of Abraham, Sarah’s “lord.”

Whenever this word is written as “lord” (all lower-case), this word is referring to men, but when this word is referring to God, then the first letter is written in upper-case (see Exodus 23:17).

Lord

Besides the few times the Hebrew word אֲדוֹן (adon) is written as “Lord,” the word “Lord” (first letter in upper-case) is used for the Hebrew word אֲדֹנָי (Adonai, Strong’s #136). While this word is translated as “Lord,” it doesn’t exactly mean “Lord.”

As previously mentioned, the Hebrew word for “lord” is אֲדוֹן (adon). When this word is written in the first person, possessive (my lord), it is written as אדֹנִי (adoniy, see Genesis 18:12). The plural form of the word אֲדוֹן (adon) is אֲדֹנִים (adonim, see Exodus 26:19). The first person, possessive, plural form (my lords) is written as אֲדוֹנָי (adonai, see 1 Kings 22:17).

אֲדוֹן adon lord
אדֹנִי adoniy my lord
אֲדֹנִים adonim lords
אֲדוֹנָי adonai my lords
If the Hebrew word Adonai literally means “my lords,” why is it only translated as “Lord” so many times (see Exodus 4:13 as an example)? Most names attributed to God are in the plural including Elohiym (literally meaning “powers”) and Shaddai (literally meaning “my breasts”). The word Adonai (a plural word) is another name used for God that means “my lords.”

LORD

When the word “lord” is written in all upper-case letters (LORD), the Hebrew behind this word is the name of God, יהוה (YHWH).

Lord God and LORD God

And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? (KJV, Genesis 15:8)
In this verse Hebrew phrase Lord GOD is written in Hebrew as; אדני יהוה, which transliterates as; Adonai YHWH. The word Elohiym is the Hebrew word for “God.” But in Genesis 15:8 the word “god” is written in all upper-case because it is the KJV’s translation of the name Yahweh. Because the word Adonai means “lord,” they couldn’t translate this as “Lord LORD,” so they chose to use the word “god” for Yahweh and wrote it in all upper-case letters (Author’s Note: Just another case of a translation disregarding the actual Hebrew text).

And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. (KJV, Genesis 2:15)
In this verse the phrase "LORD God" is written in the Hebrew as; יהוה אלהים, which transliterates as; YHWH Elohiym. The name Yahweh (whose pronunciation is debated) is the name of the God of the Bible. Throughout the Old Testament, the KJV, and most other translations, translate the Hebrew name Yahweh as “LORD,” in all upper-case, and this is the case in Genesis 2:15. Following this word is the Hebrew word Elohiym, which is often translated as "God."

Personally I think you have your metaphors scrambled-but I am not here to go into an intense "debate" with you @APAK

What is the difference between lord, Lord and LORD? | AHRC

The word

ancient-hebrew.org

Again this different source of yours agrees with me...LORD = YHWH read it for yourself backwards and forwards...

So you now make a disagreement remark for a display of knowledge that really does not exist, as you cannot make this empty remark stick regarding this now so-called scramble of metaphors...where are these metaphors?!

Why cannot you just answer my queries and be done with it is beyond me.

If the real issue is the part when I said 'adonim' as 'my lords' versus just 'lords' and this also indicative of adonai then this is not really a scramble, and of metaphors?! Where are the metaphors I used...this subject is not about metaphors at all...

The maze you have now created for yourself is also a quagmire indeed. Just like the mystery and the unknowable entity called the Triune god(s).

 

[Johann]

Again this different source of yours agrees with me...LORD = YHWH read it for yourself backwards and forwards...

So you now make a disagreement remark for a display of knowledge that really does not exist, as you cannot make this empty remark stick regarding this now so-called scramble of metaphors...where are these metaphors?!

Why cannot you just answer my queries and be done with it is beyond me.

If the real issue is the part when I said 'adonim' as 'my lords' versus just 'lords' and this also indicative of adonai then this is not really a scramble, and of metaphors?! Where are the metaphors I used...this subject is not about metaphors at all...

The maze you have now created for yourself is also a quagmire indeed. Just like the mystery and the unknowable entity called the Triune god(s).

I know what I'm doing @APAK -based on a solid foundation.
J.

 

[101G]

His unique soul (his humanity) was with God as the means to create all things.
All things His soul was used to create with, are things that our souls will be able to relate to.

(smile)... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh dear. so we can take this as you have no clue as to what these scriptures are saying. thought so.

Being uniquely God and soul in union places the Lord Jesus Christ in a unique position in the Trinity.

LOL, LOL, LOL, oh dear

Before the Incarnation where His soul took on human flesh? The Lord God of Israel was being a union of Soul and Deity as attested to in passages found in the Torah.

My God, Just cannot believe you think this way.

But, maybe I should spare you. You would not want to learn from someone who is your inferior mentally...

why do you put your-self to that level? do you not supposed to have the MIND of Christ? that's insulting to the Lord himself. now grid up your bootstraps like a man and LEARN something. God did not give you an inferior brain. it's just your IGNORANCE that's preventing you brain to function correctly. from now on never say or act inferior to no one except God.

now, let's get rid of that brain retardance call IGNORANCE.

IN JOHN 1:1, the Lord Jesus is God. he is the same God of the OT. let the bible speak. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" so the LORD is our God according to the OT covenant people.... Correct... Listen to David the king. Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." is not David OT covenant? so how is this person is his "Lord" when Deuteronomy 6:4 clearly states the "LORD", all caps is the ONE GOD. see your dilemma now.

101G.

 

[GeneZ]

(smile)... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh dear. so we can take this as you have no clue as to what these scriptures are saying. thought so.

LOL, LOL, LOL, oh dear

My God, Just cannot believe you think this way.

why do you put your-self to that level? do you not supposed to have the MIND of Christ? that's insulting to the Lord himself. now grid up your bootstraps like a man and LEARN something. God did not give you an inferior brain. it's just your IGNORANCE that's preventing you brain to function correctly. from now on never say or act inferior to no one except God.

now, let's get rid of that brain retardance call IGNORANCE.

IN JOHN 1:1, the Lord Jesus is God. he is the same God of the OT. let the bible speak. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" so the LORD is our God according to the OT covenant people.... Correct... Listen to David the king. Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." is not David OT covenant? so how is this person is his "Lord" when Deuteronomy 6:4 clearly states the "LORD", all caps is the ONE GOD. see your dilemma now.

101G.

One important thing I learned in Bible college. People like you exist.

Not to be taken seriously.

 

[101G]

One important thing I learned in Bible college. People like you exist.

Not to be taken seriously.

personal Opinion, 101G can careless about.

now, did you understand what 101G was saying about the "LORD" and "My Lord?"

101G.

 

[Wrangler]

do not cry to me when He denies you at Judgement.

There is no threat.

Abject denial. And no Scripture whatsoever to support such threats.

 

[Wrangler]

Not at all. I teach exactly what Jesus taught. He said on several occasions that He was God.

Again, in such denial! Not one time does Jesus claim to be God. In fact, you continually disregard what our lord said. John 8:54 ‘If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing.’ Yet, trinitarians contradict Jesus, asserting he is claiming all glory by reading into his words to mean he is God. And then overlook a stronger explicit anti-trinitarian verse than is hard to imagine. For us, there is one God, the Father. 1 Corinthians 8:6.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, pretty much. If you do not believe that Jesus is God, then the Jesus in whom you believe is not equal to the task of paying the price for your sins.

So much denial! God cannot pay for our sins because God cannot die. You believe in a Jesus who made less of a sacrifice on the cross than the real Jesus.

 

[Wrangler]

And then you continue to ramble on and throw chaff out to avoid any other ensuing serious discussion. You are not serious and interested in this topic and its truth at all.

Sad but true. The IDOLATRY is stunning.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Again, in such denial! Not one time does Jesus claim to be God. In fact, you continually disregard what our lord said. John 8:54 ‘If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing.’ Yet, trinitarians contradict Jesus, asserting he is claiming all glory by reading into his words to mean he is God. And then overlook a stronger explicit anti-trinitarian verse than is hard to imagine. For us, there is one God, the Father. 1 Corinthians 8:6.

And the unfortunate thing is that Scripture refutes your opinion.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/even-in-john-1-jesus-is-not-god.930/post-30161

 

[Wrangler]

Undeniably true. Deflections, distractions and intellectual dishonesty is all they have to combat this truth.
...
Ask a trinitarian to do even a short commentary without throwing out lists of disconnected single verses, and they run.

And right on cue ...

4. THE DIVINE NAMES AND TITLES.

@Johann seeks to distract with volume. It's as if they are correct by wordiness winning the 12-paragraph competition. There is only one name for Jesus's God, YHWH. Scripture is painful to the trinitarian cause explicit on point. There is only one name for God and his name is NOT Jesus!

... God said ... ‘Yahweh ... is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered throughout all generations.
Ex 3:15 (REV)

 

[Wrangler]

And the unfortunate thing is that Scripture refutes your opinion.

The exact opposite is true. The trinity* is so important that in 66 books, it's not mentioned once. Jesus did not teach the trinity. Why do you?

* verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

The exact opposite is true. The trinity* is so important that in 66 books, it's not mentioned once. Jesus did not teach the trinity. Why do you?

* verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

You didn't even read the proof in the comment I linked.

 

[Doug Brents]

Again, in such denial! Not one time does Jesus claim to be God. In fact, you continually disregard what our lord said. John 8:54 ‘If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing.’ Yet, trinitarians contradict Jesus, asserting he is claiming all glory by reading into his words to mean he is God. And then overlook a stronger explicit anti-trinitarian verse than is hard to imagine. For us, there is one God, the Father. 1 Corinthians 8:6.

Sad but true. The IDOLATRY is stunning.

The "I AM" is God, the eternal, all powerful, all knowing, creator, God. And Jesus said explicitly that He was, is, and forever will be the I AM (John 8:58). This is clearly a claim to be God, and that is the reason the people around him at that time picked up stones to kill him right then.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

The exact opposite is true. The trinity* is so important that in 66 books, it's not mentioned once. Jesus did not teach the trinity. Why do you?

* verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

It's very unfortunate that the Greek text of the New Testament has replaced all the many instances of the name of God - Yahweh. The Tetragrammaton does not occur at all in the New Testament - in Greek. However, in the Aramaic New Testament - the Peshitta - the name of God occurs many multiple times. Wherever the Greek uses the word "kurios" the Aramaic uses the term "marya". This is a combination of the word "mar" + "yah" which means "master" + "yah" (a shortened form of Yahweh).

Just one of many examples is one of the most important. The angel's message at the birth of Jesus. The angel says Jesus is the Messiah and equal with Yahweh.
"For there is born to you this day a deliverer, who is "Marya" Messiah, in the city of David" Luke 2:11

Analysis of Peshitta verse 'Luke 2:11'

The natural reaction to hearing this fact in the Aramaic text will probably be "who cares? The Greek text was obviously the original text." But, there is much evidence that was not the case. A single proof comes from the enemies of Jesus - in their own writings of the Talmud.

In 2:5 https://www.sefaria.org/Tosefta_Yadayim, they write: "The [Avon]gilyonim (i.e., the writings of the Evangelists) and the scrolls of the heretics do not defile the hands."

Why do the writings of the Christians (the Evangelists) not defile the hands of the devout Jews? It is because the name of God occurs in their writings. Even though the Pharisees hated the Christians, they were still forced to treat their writings with respect just like their own scriptures. But, the name of God does not occur in the Greek text New Testament. So just what Christian writings are the Pharisees referring to? Obviously, they are referring to the New Testament in Aramaic. It's the only New Testament text that contains the name of God. No other translation contains a version of the Tetragrammaton. Only in the Aramaic is there direct proof that Messiah Jesus is equated with the Tetragrammaton - with Yahweh Himself.