The mediocrity of Unitarianism. Where are the "John the Beloveds" in Unitarianism?

Studyman said:
I am a better person since denying myself and turned to God who I believe gave me to His Son Jesus for cleansing. Isn't that the whole purpose of the Gospel of Christ, to change men for the good? You know I never said "Jesus made me just like Him". What I said, and you know I said, is that the purpose of the Holy Scriptures in the first place, The purpose of the Gospel of Christ in the first place, is to show us in the Way that we should go, and lead us to be a better man, a perfect man in God's Eyes, "like Jesus".

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

But like Jesus said, only those who are "Doers" of His Sayings will stand, will endure, and really Love Him.

So you preach that I cannot please God. That I don't Love Jesus. That I don't obey Him. And then you claim all men are on this same level as you. Then you try to drag me down to your level, in the same way the mainstream preachers of Jesus Time tried to drag HIM down to their level. I don't think you know this or would want this, but the very definition of "deceived" is to believe what is not true.

But the Church of God, the Body of Christ is not now, nor has ever been at this level you claim you and all men are in. They are a separate people. Purchased by God with the Blood of His Son. We are told not to be like the "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but don't obey Him. Jesus said of those hypocrites who attend their manmade shrines of worship and praise Him with their lips, "Be ye not therefore like unto them". All men are not on the same level.

So PY, you are simply wrong and in need of correction. All men have sinned, but all men are not at the same level. To preach such foolishness, is to preach that the Spirit of God which was in Christ Jesus is powerless against your flesh. Instead of justifying yourself and defending your every word, please consider the following. And remember, God even used an *** once to correct a man He Loved. Don't judge me, engage with me.

Tell me, Was Paul speaking about the Church of God, the Body of Christ in Romans 3, or those who "professed to know God but by their works denied him?

Rom. 3: 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

This is the level you are dragging me and others down to, saying all men are on this same level with you. But "ALL" men are not on this level. These are men "who work iniquity". Who have the Oracles of God but don't believe them. These are men who slander Paul and the Body of Christ with baseless accusations, "Whose damnation is just". These are men who "profess to know God" but by their works deny Him.

All men have sinned, this is true. But all men's throat is not an open sepulchre. After all, "God is in the Generation of the righteous", and Jesus is their refuge. So again, you preach to the world that "all men are at the same level", and you work to drag me down to your level. But when I actually consider what is written, I find your religious philosophy in this matter a falsehood. There are Faithful men who call Jesus Lord, and there are men who call Jesus Lord, Lord who are not Faithful. I simply believe we should, with all our heart, might and strength, "RISE" to the level of Jesus and the examples of Faithful men HE gave us. Knowing that if His Father's Spirit is in us, we can be One with Jesus and His Father, even as Jesus was One with His Father.

Heb. 12: 1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about "with so great a cloud of witnesses", let us lay aside every weight, "and the sin which doth so easily beset us", and let us run with patience "the race that is set before us", 2 Looking unto Jesus the "author and finisher" of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down "at the right hand of the throne of God".

You are not the only one who doubts or refuses to believe in the ability of Jesus to lead those who His Father gives to Him out of sin, and into Righteousness.

But I do believe Him and Love Him will all my heart. So I won't be dragged down by you to your level. But I would invite you to Press for the Prize of the "HIGH" Calling of God that was in the Jesus "of the Bible". Use HIS Words to "lift people up" unto righteousness and true Holiness, not drag them down.
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If you're not exactly like Christ, then just admit it. I have no other "intent" than to promote Christ above YOU.

If you believe you're just like Christ, then prove it. Do everything Jesus Christ does.
 
civic said:
no its not true the fact is He is equal and that was not something He had to reach for, grasp at or try and attain.

next fallacy
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No he's not equal to God. There are a lot of verses that say such. For one, Jesus admitted it in John 14:28. God being greater than Jesus is also standard doctrine.

1 Corinthians 15
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
 
Runningman said:
No he's not equal to God. There are a lot of verses that say such. For one, Jesus admitted it in John 14:28. God being greater than Jesus is also standard doctrine.

1 Corinthians 15
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
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nope He is equal in nature but has a different role than the Father. Just like my wife is EQUAL with me as a human but has a different role in the family.

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TomL said:
Still dodging the point and living up to your name

How could the word be an impersonal thing that could exist in the form of God with a mind and consider or count and empty himself

Philippians 2:5–7 (ESV) — 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

You simply ignored the point I have raised multiple times and your theology could never address

and so once again you dodge, running and confirming yourself as a Runningman
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As usual, you will ignore all the truth pushed in front of your eye balls. The Greek text refutes your propositions as well since the literal word order would instead render something like: "Who, existing in the form of God, not something to be grasped being considered was being equal with God.

Strong'sGreekEnglishMorphology
3739 [e]Ὃς
hos		WhoRelPro-NMS
1722 [e]ἐν
en		inPrep
3444 [e]μορφῇ
morphē		[the] formN-DFS
2316 [e]Θεοῦ
Theou		of GodN-GMS
5225 [e]ὑπάρχων
hyparchōn		existing,V-PPA-NMS
3756 [e]οὐχ
ouch		notAdv
725 [e]ἁρπαγμὸν
harpagmon		something to be graspedN-AMS
2233 [e]ἡγήσατο
hēgēsato		consideredV-AIM-3S
3588 [e]τὸ
to		-Art-ANS
1510 [e]εἶναι
einai		to beV-PNA
2470 [e]ἴσα
isa		equalAdj-ANP
2316 [e]Θεῷ,
Theō		with God,N-DMS
 
praise_yeshua said:
Let me spell it out for you.

A mere man names Jesus couldn't offer up an acceptable sacrifice for sin. If they could, then Abraham would have died for man's sin. How about any "faithful man"......
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Again, "mere man" is your adopted term for Jesus. I have never used it. I don't believe, and have never said even ONE TIME, that Jesus was a "Mere man". I just don't believe HE overcame Sin and temptation "because" He was 100% fully immortal God and God can't be tempted, and God can't die.

Abraham lived in sin for over 70 years before God called him out of his way, unto God's Way. He had sin on him as all men but Jesus do. He could not have offered his life for man's sins, because someone would have to offer their life for his. But Abraham repented and turned to God, and brought forth works worthy of repentance. He pleased God. He obeyed God, He Loved God, your preaching notwithstanding. I have no doubt there were men of his time, who also professed to know God, telling him "You are not perfect before God", "You don't love God, you don't obey God, you can't please God. And they would drag him down to their level if he would let them, just as you try to drag me down to your level, if I would let you.

Thankfully Abraham trusted in God's Word over those who "profess to know God, but by their works denied Him" and as a result God said I am blessed even today "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Another Example God gave me for my admonition. Just because you don't believe these things, doesn't make them any less true.

praise_yeshua said:
You're a novice. You do not understand the teaching of the Hypostatic Union.
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I understand the teaching perfectly. I know where it came from and who first promoted it. I believe Jesus was the Word of God, the Love of God, the Wisdom of God in a mortal human. No "mere man" to be sure. I don't believe God is a random long haired handsome man, born on Dec. 25th.

You are free to judge me as a novice, who doesn't love Jesus, who doesn't obey Him who will never please His Father if you like. I have come to expect nothing different from "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

But I don't hold your bitterness and resentment against you. And I invite you to consider the Words of the Jesus "of the Bible" concerning true worshippers. And I pray that you too, will come to believe in the teaching of the Jesus "of the Bible" and become a "Doer" of His Sayings, and not a hearer only.
 
civic said:
nope He is equal in nature but has a different role than the Father. Just like my wife is EQUAL with me as a human but has a different role in the family.

next fallacy
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Jesus taught he is not equal to God.

John 13
16Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 17
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
 
Runningman said:
Jesus taught he is not equal to God.

John 13
16Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
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You have abused the meaning of the passage. Jesus is teaching about Him and the disciples, not about the Father and the Son.

This saying occurs four times in the Gospels, each time in a different connexion: (1) to shew that the disciples must expect no better treatment than their Master (Matthew 10:24); (2) to impress the Apostles with their responsibilities as teachers, for their disciples will be as they are (Luke 6:40); (3) here; (4) with the same purpose as in Matthew 10:24, but on another occasion (John 15:20). We infer that it was one of Christ’s frequent sayings: it is introduced here with the double ‘verily’ as of special importance (John 1:51).

next fallacy.........

hope this helps !!!
 
praise_yeshua said:
What exactly do I preserve? Do tell?

You're not any harder on me than I am on MYSELF. I am self correcting. Everyone should be. I never justify sin. However, I do sin. The more I know God the more sinful I realize that I am. It is in simple things for me anymore. If I told you what they were, I'd almost guarantee you're doing right now

I think I'll do that. I think I'll start a list of sins that most Christians don't even consider.
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You have already exalted yourself as my judge PY. You declared to the world that I don't Love Jesus. That I don't please God. That I don't obey Jesus.

That boat has already sailed.
 
civic said:
You have abused the meaning of the passage. Jesus is teaching about Him and the disciples, not about the Father and the Son.

This saying occurs four times in the Gospels, each time in a different connexion: (1) to shew that the disciples must expect no better treatment than their Master (Matthew 10:24); (2) to impress the Apostles with their responsibilities as teachers, for their disciples will be as they are (Luke 6:40); (3) here; (4) with the same purpose as in Matthew 10:24, but on another occasion (John 15:20). We infer that it was one of Christ’s frequent sayings: it is introduced here with the double ‘verily’ as of special importance (John 1:51).

next fallacy.........

hope this helps !!!
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Um in John 13:16 Jesus mentioned a servant and the one who is sent. Jesus is a servant and the one who is sent in Scripture. A high level of reading comprehension is not required to understand what Jesus said.

In Matthew 12:18, God says that Jesus is His chosen servant. In John 17:3, Jesus said the Father is the only true God and that he is the one God sent.

Conclusion... Jesus taught he isn't greater than God.
 
Runningman said:
Um in John 13:16 Jesus mentioned a servant and the one who is sent. Jesus is a servant and the one who is sent in Scripture. A high level of reading comprehension is not required to understand what Jesus said.

In Matthew 12:18, God says that Jesus is His chosen servant. In John 17:3, Jesus said the Father is the only true God and that he is the one God sent.

Conclusion... Jesus taught he isn't greater than God.
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nope its Jesus sending them. He is their Master/Lord

next
 
praise_yeshua said:
If you're not exactly like Christ, then just admit it.
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I have already admitted it to you on my posts, a dozen times. And you know it. I strive and press towards this high called, but as I have told you over and over, I'm not there yet. And yet, you continue to promote the lie that I said I am "just like Jesus". And why would you continue to perpetuate this sin, if not to justify and preserve it?
 
 
Studyman said:
Psalms 110: "The LORD" said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (And my Lord obeyed His Father) 2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. 3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

4 "The LORD" hath sworn, and will not repent, "Thou art a priest for ever" after the order of Melchizedek.

Yes, my Lord and Savior, the Jesus "of the Bible", Humbled Himself to His Father and my Father. And for His Humility, His God granted HIM the eternal Priesthood.

Halleluiah
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Matthew 22
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”
“The son of David,” they replied.
43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,
44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’
45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

next fallacy

If David ... - If he was then David's lord if he was his superior - if he had an existence at that time how could he be descended from him? They could not answer him.
Nor is there any way of answering the question but by the admission that the Messiah was divine as well as human; that he had an existence at the time of David, and was his lord and master, his God I and king, and that as man he was descended from him.

Remarks On Matthew 22

1. Multitudes of people, who are invited to be saved, reject the gospel and perish in their sins, Matthew 22:3.

2. If they perish, they only will be to blame. The offer was freely made, the salvation was provided, and the only reason why they were not saved was that they would not come, Matthew 22:3.

3. Attention to the affairs of this life, the love of the world, will shut many out of the kingdom of heaven, Matthew 22:5. Some attention to those things is necessary; but such a devotion to these things as to lead to the loss of the soul never can be right.

4. It is treating God ungratefully to reject his gospel, Matthew 22:3-5. He has sent his Son to die for us; he has entreated us to be saved; he has followed us with mercies; and to reject all these, and refuse to be saved, is to treat him with contempt, as well as to overwhelm ourselves in condemnation. "Man has no right to be damned." He is under the most solemn obligations to be "saved;" and after what God has done for us, deep and dreadful woe will await us if we are so foolish and wicked as to be lost.

5. Many of the poor and needy will be saved, while the haughty and rich will perish forever, Matthew 22:9-10.

6. Let those who make a profession of religion look often to the great day when Christ will search them, Matthew 22:11. There is a day coming that will try us. His eye will be upon us. He will read our hearts, and see whether we are clothed in his righteousness, or only the filthy rags of our own.

7. A profession of religion will not save us, Matthew 22:11-13. It is foolish to deceive ourselves. Nothing but genuine piety, true faith in Jesus, and a holy life, will save us. God asks not profession merely, but the heart. He asks not mockery, but sincerity; not pretension, but reality.

8. The hypocrite must perish, Matthew 22:13. It is right that he should perish. He knew his Master's will and would not do it. He must perish with an awful condemnation. No man sins amid so much light, none with so high a hand. No sin is so awful as to attempt to deceive God, and to palm pretensions on him for reality.

9. Pretended friends are sometimes more dangerous than avowed enemies, Matthew 22:16. Pretended friendship is often for the purpose of decoying us into evil. It throws us off our guard, and we are more easily taken.

10. The truth is often admitted by wicked people from mere hypocrisy, Matthew 22:16. It is only for the purpose of deceiving others and leading them into sin.

11. Wicked people can decide correctly on the character of a public preacher, Matthew 22:16. They often admit his claim in words, but for an evil purpose. barnes

hope this helps !!!
 
Pancho Frijoles said:
Thanks for bringing such an important passage.
You have summarized very well the whole thread.

In John 14:19-21 Jesus is saying that the proof that somebody loves Jesus is to keep his commandments. He who does this, will prove he loves Jesus, and the Father will love that person.

You, DavidTree, keep Jesus commandments, because you love your brothers, including your Unitarian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, gay brothers, as He loved us. Since you keep Jesus commandments, you are proving that you love Jesus, and therefore God, The Father of Jesus, loves you.

So, loving Jesus is not about believing or not in his deity. It is about keeping Jesus commandment.
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A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

WHERE R U Pancho???

Before we can even begin to love the FATHER we must First embrace and follow two commandments.
What are the two commandments?_____________________________________________________________________________.

IF you truly love the Lord Jesus Christ, complete the question above according to the Passage of Scripture above - John 14:19-21
 
Matt 22:46- And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

And no man was able to answer him a word,.... They saw the dilemma they were reduced to, either to acknowledge the deity of the Messiah, or confess their ignorance; and neither of them they cared to do, and therefore judged it to be the wisest part to be silent.
Neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions: neither Pharisees nor Sadducees, for the same is observed by Luke 20:40 of the Sadducees particularly, and was true of all sorts, and every sect, of men among them: and thus our Lord was freed from a cavilling, captious, and troublesome generation of men, from this time forward, to the time of his sufferings, which was not very long after; for this was the third day before the passover, as appears from Matthew 26:1.gill

hope this helps !!!
 

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