Even in John 1, Jesus is not God

[GeneZ]

where do it say this in the bible, "The Lord Jesus has a Human Soul?' did he not have a soul before he came in flesh?

101G.

Oh Yes He Did!

He came down from Heaven and made Himself become as a man.

As the Lord God He always had two IMMATERIAL natures in union. God and Soul.
The Incarnation supplied a human body for His soul to make Himself be as a man! As fully man!

The Old Testament had it tucked away and ready to be unpacked all along!


The Soul of Jehovah..........

And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah, ​

so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Judges 10:16​

​

Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone ​

loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5​

​

“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, ​

the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred ​

meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble ​

to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isa 1:13-14​

And ............

'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover, I will make ​

My dwelling among you, and my soul will not reject you.'I will also walk among you and be ​

your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12​

If you are really seeking truth?
That should make you sit still and think.
But, if you are only seeking to spin?
Then that should become evident shortly.


..................

 

[101G]

No its the same beginning.

Let's take this one step at a time.
A. in the beginning was the Word and Word was WITH God. so let the bible make it plain for us. Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;" What was With God is now With US. Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." how is the Word ... (God) with us? in the same thing we're in ... a Body. ONE MORE. 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;" NOTICE, "That which was from the beginning. is now with us. and shall be in us. now, was John in the beginning? did he handle the Word in the beginning? no. so. John 1:1 is not the beginning of Genesis 1:1. so try something else.

101G.

 

[101G]

Let's look at the Aramaic Peshitta. Again a text as ancient as the Greek text. The very first word of John 1:1 is the similar word that occurs in the Hebrew Genesis 1:1. In the Galilean Aramaic dialect it very clearly is referring to the Beginning of Creation.

brˀšyt (brā/ēšīṯ) n.m. The Beginning 1 The Beginning , i.e., Creation JLAtg, Gal, PTA, Sam, Syr, Man, LJLA. --(a) mn b' : from Creation, at Creation JLAtg, Gal, Syr, LJLA.

Word 'br$yt'

dukhrana.com

"BEGINNING" simply means "FIRST". for the Lord Jesus is the "FIRST" in the NEW CREATION. Colossians 1:17 "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

the "FIRST" from the Dead..... which is the NEW CREATION. for the term preeminence tells us so.

G4409 πρωτεύω proteuo (prō-tev'-ō) v.
to be first (in rank or influence).
[from G4413]
KJV: have the preeminence
Root(s): G4413

Now John 1:1 BEGINNING:
G746 ἀρχή arche (ar-chee') n.
1. (properly abstract) a commencement.
2. (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank).
[from G756]
KJV: beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule

Now Genesis 1:1
BEGINNING: H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218

AS 101G BEEN SAYING THE LORD/Lord JESUS IS THE "FIRST" THE "ORDINAL" FIRST. one day you all will learn, 101G hope that it didn't be too late.

101G.

 

[101G]

Oh Yes He Did!

He came down from Heaven and made Himself become as a man.

As the Lord God He always had two IMMATERIAL natures in union. God and Soul.
The Incarnation supplied a human body for His soul to make Himself be as a man! As fully man!

The Old Testament had it tucked away and ready to be unpacked all along!


The Soul of Jehovah..........

And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah, ​

so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Judges 10:16​

​

Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone ​

loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5​

​

“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, ​

the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred ​

meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble ​

to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isa 1:13-14​

And ............

'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover, I will make ​

My dwelling among you, and my soul will not reject you.'I will also walk among you and be ​

your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12​

If you are really seeking truth?
That should make you sit still and think.
But, if you are only seeking to spin?
Then that should become evident shortly.


..................

did the Lord Jesus have flesh in the OT? .... answer NO. you shot your own-self in the foot. he already had a Soul.
GeneZ, Gene, Gene.... Oh boy. advice... only. you might want to consider in getting a refund from the theological school you said U attended. no put down, only a financial move...... coffee anyone.

101G.

 

[101G]

The apostle Paul refers to the divinity of Christ when he calls Jesus our "great God and Savior" Titus 2:13 and even says that Jesus existed in the "form of God" prior to His incarnation Philippians 2:5-8

and also at Titus opening. Titus 1:3 "But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;" as well as in Galatians 1:1 "Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)"

here is the opposite of John 17:5 in the use of "AND" the connector. Galatians 1:1 "Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead"

well question time @GeneZ, @Wrangler, @civic, @EclipseEventSigns, @APAK and anyone else who wants to contribute.
"WHO RAISED UP THE LORD JESUS BODY?".

Acts 2:32 "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses."

Romans 4:24 "But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;" (who is the HIM that we believe on?)

Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

JUST ONE MORE, 2 Corinthians 4:14 "Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you."

NOW, NOW, NOW, LET'S READ, John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body." John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said." the Lord Jesus said, "he would raise up his own body". if not the Lord Jesus lies, God forbid. and the Lord Jesus did not and never will .... LIE. so either the Lord Jesus is the Spirit/God.

101G.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

"BEGINNING" simply means "FIRST". for the Lord Jesus is the "FIRST" in the NEW CREATION. Colossians 1:17 "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

the "FIRST" from the Dead..... which is the NEW CREATION. for the term preeminence tells us so.

G4409 πρωτεύω proteuo (prō-tev'-ō) v.
to be first (in rank or influence).
[from G4413]
KJV: have the preeminence
Root(s): G4413

Now John 1:1 BEGINNING:
G746 ἀρχή arche (ar-chee') n.
1. (properly abstract) a commencement.
2. (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank).
[from G756]
KJV: beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule

Now Genesis 1:1
BEGINNING: H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218

AS 101G BEEN SAYING THE LORD/Lord JESUS IS THE "FIRST" THE "ORDINAL" FIRST. one day you all will learn, 101G hope that it didn't be too late.

101G.

As my post stated, the word is specifically meaning in ARAMAIC as the Beginning of Creation.

 

[GeneZ]

did the Lord Jesus have flesh in the OT? .... answer NO

Thanks for agreeing with me.... In case you do not know? That is what I was saying.

 

[Wrangler]

well question time @GeneZ, @Wrangler, @civic, @EclipseEventSigns, @APAK and anyone else who wants to contribute.
"WHO RAISED UP THE LORD JESUS BODY?".

The Bible is explicit, that God raised Jesus from the dead.

Regarding who saves us; you don't want to acknowledge agency. But there it is. Ps 110:1 makes this agency clear.

Yahweh’s declaration to my lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” (REV)

Our lord sits at the right hand of his God, YHWH, who we relate to as father. Jesus is the agent through which YHWH saves.

 

[APAK]

I know. Right? @APAK really does not seem to know how to read and comprehend entire passages of Scripture. He's doing drive by potshots. People like him are really not worth the time. They aren't here to discuss things.

Can you elaborate EES. I sense some unresolved tension that needs to be released. Great to get it all out in the open don't you think?

So let me know was really is on your mind..thx

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Can you elaborate EES. I sense some unresolved tension that needs to be released. Great to get it all out in the open don't you think?

So let me know was really is on your mind..thx

Read the previous posts that you never acknowledged or even answered. I'm just not interested in discussing with people who are not serious about addressing the issues and only want the LAST WORD.

 

[GeneZ]

The Bible is explicit, that God raised Jesus from the dead.

And, Jesus said that He would raise it up!

​

The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”

Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”​

​

But the temple he had spoken of was his body." John 2:18-21​

That makes Jesus "God" according to your very own claim.!

The Bible is explicit, that God raised Jesus from the dead.

 

[APAK]

Read the previous posts that you never acknowledged or even answered. I'm just not interested in discussing with people who are not serious about addressing the issues and only want the LAST WORD.

Well that last post you wrote to me was yesterday morning and I ignored it because this Syriac Aramaic Peshitta is controversial and clearly wrong.

It used various dialects in its formation. It is written in the Syriac alphabet and is transliterated into the Latin script.....do I have to rewrite that again? That is enough for me to run...

The Aramaic Peshitta says:
In the beginning was the Miltha, and that Miltha was with God, and God was that Miltha. This was in the Beginning with God. - John 1:1-2

And Miltha it said to be Jesus Christ. Even Trinitarians do not go that far as to actually insert and replace logos with Christ in the text.

So I ignored your argument altogether.

Miltha they also say means 'manifestation' or 'substance.' Go right ahead and believe this text. I will have no part in it.

 

[Frank Russell]

LOL. Then you are self-deceived since you provided NO ANSWER how can anything (word) be with God and be God?

The word is in the beginning.

This is spoken of in Genesis where the voice of God could be heard walking around during the cool of the day.

In the same way your voice is with you when you speak, the voice was with God and was also God in the beginning.

Full of grace and truth.

God spoke into being all of creation, the voice that all things were created with was this voice.

So this is how a voice can be with and also be.

 

[101G]

As my post stated, the word is specifically meaning in ARAMAIC as the Beginning of Creation.

is not the Lord Jesus the NEW CREATION "CREATOR?" scripture, Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."
and it's the Lord Jesus who sits on the throne.

101G/

 

[TibiasDad]

What would disprove the trinitarian argument?

By definition, you cannot disprove truth!


Doug

 

[101G]

Thanks for agreeing with me.... In case you do not know? That is what I was saying.

U said he had a HUMAN Soul. listen to what you said,

Jesus is an unique union of both a human soul and Deity.

and 101G asked, "where is that in the bible?".

As the Lord God He always had two IMMATERIAL natures in union. God and Soul.
The Incarnation supplied a human body for His soul to make Himself be as a man! As fully man!

see, 101G did not agree with you. he had a soul before he came in flesh, which is not human. so try again.

101G.

 

[101G]

The Bible is explicit, that God raised Jesus from the dead.

Regarding who saves us; you don't want to acknowledge agency. But there it is. Ps 110:1 makes this agency clear.

Yahweh’s declaration to my lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” (REV)

Our lord sits at the right hand of his God, YHWH, who we relate to as father. Jesus is the agent through which YHWH saves.

well you do believe the bible, and the Lord Jesus .... right? let's see who raised up that body. John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body." John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

if you don't believe then you're not a believer. now your dilemma, either the Lord Jesus is God or the bible lied, (God forbid). your Choice...... ((smile).... well Wrangler, your answer please.

101G.

 

[101G]

Wrangler said:
What would disprove the trinitarian argument?
Doug said! By definition, you cannot disprove truth!
Doug

Doug, trinitarianism is not the TRUTH. By definition, you cannot disprove truth? but by scripture you can ESTABLISH the TRUTH. example, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." now this, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

either the "Word", who is GOD is the same person who is the "LORD" who made all things, else you have two separate and distinct creators "who made all things"

and there is only one conclusion, the Word is the "LORD". which destroys any three persons trinity.

101G.

 

[TibiasDad]

No it’s the same beginning.

It certainly includes Gen 1:1, but it’s more than that. I like what MacLaren says about it, “The threefold utterance in John 1:1carries us into the depths of eternity, before time or creatures were. Genesis and John both start from ‘the beginning,’ but, while Genesis works downwards from that point and tells what followed, John works upwards and tells what preceded-if we may use that term in speaking of what lies beyond time.”

There is the sense of the reality of things in eternity past in John 1:1, it is not as pinpointed as Gen 1:1.

Doug

 

[GeneZ]

U said he had a HUMAN Soul. listen to what you said,

and 101G asked, "where is that in the bible?".

see, 101G did not agree with you. he had a soul before he came in flesh, which is not human. so try again.

101G.

Soul is designated for a human.

Angels are not souls. They are spirits.

God is 'spirit' in essence .. spirit is not soul essence.


Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship
the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father
seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

John 4:23-24