Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1 the Singularity of God's Plurality
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Dizerner
Well-known member
Where did you first learn about and believe in the "One Person" view of God?
Was it your denomination or your own study.
101G
Well-known member
well glad someone is asking and not making assumptions. God the Lord Jesus taught 101G. and 101G's denomination is "holy" as the Lord Jesus God requires us to be. (and 101G is not putting down anyone's denomination, ok). now, how one study make no difference, (for God must reveal himself to oneself). and let the Holy Spirit, God, lead you in your studies.
now what doctrine or studies? .... 101G is a "Diversified Oneness" not a oneness as the UPIC, and some other teaches, but what the Holy Ghost teaches. which is scriptural based.
thanks for asking.
101G
101G
Well-known member
101G
Well-known member
To all,
Teaching is a very important GIFT of God. first one must need to KNOW TRUTH, and not men opinions or man-made doctrine. it is impetrative that one who teach must be LEAD and taught of the Holy Spirit, the Lord Jesus. for we must worship him in Spirit..... and TRUTH. and to learn doctrine, Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts." Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"
just as Hebrews 5:12 clearly states, "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." Hebrews 5:13 "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe." Hebrews 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
this is why there is a falling away, ..... man-made doctrine.
101G.
Teaching is a very important GIFT of God. first one must need to KNOW TRUTH, and not men opinions or man-made doctrine. it is impetrative that one who teach must be LEAD and taught of the Holy Spirit, the Lord Jesus. for we must worship him in Spirit..... and TRUTH. and to learn doctrine, Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts." Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"
just as Hebrews 5:12 clearly states, "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." Hebrews 5:13 "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe." Hebrews 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
this is why there is a falling away, ..... man-made doctrine.
101G.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
You're right.
In fact, it proves two things:
- Jesus and The Father are two different persons, as they have two different wills.
- The will of one of those two persons always submits to the will of the other person. Never the other way around. Since God cannot submit his will to anyone else, only the Father, who does not submit his will to anyone else, is God... which fits nicely with Jesus own assertion that the Father is The Only and True God, and His God... an assertion that Jesus sustains even after his resurrection and exaltation.
Dizerner
Well-known member
Except you are again conflating the word "person" with the word "God" as if they are semantically equal here.
Just like almost all Unitarians/Oneness will do.
God can logically submit to himself, there is no violation.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
The word God is used semantically in the Bible as referring to a singular person, a "He". It is used this way over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over... and I may write up to two thousand "overs" more or less.
Very importantly, Christ and his disciples used "God" as referring to a singular person.
So, I am not worried about using the word "God" as if it referred to a singular person, because that's the way Christ and the Bible use the term.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
If you are saying "himself" here, it is because you understand God as a singular person... and you are right in such understanding.
At least, you are using the term "God" as the Bible uses it. So, good for you!
Well, God cannot submit to himself, just as you cannot submit to yourself.
We can use those sentences perhaps metaphorically in certain contexts, but we don't mean that God's mind is split in two, or that your mind is split in two, like Gollum in Lord of the Rings.
Jesus submitted his will to the will of He who Jesus called "The Only and True God". So, God did not submit to Himself. Jesus submitted to God.
If we are to follow the example of Lord Jesus, let's submit our lives to the Only and True God, His Father and Our Father, His God and Our God.
That's what accepting the lordship of Jesus implies.
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praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Especially in the context Christ's Priestly work for us. Christ duplicated our experience to be faithful High Priest.
The extent to which unbelievers will go to deny Jesus Christ is amazing.
Dizerner
Well-known member
That's a non-sequitur, lol, just presuming your own belief and reading it into mine.
You want to take one narrow band of meaning for a pronoun and say it's the only one.
When I say, "Russia, itself, would be in shock to know who Putin really is," I am not thereby asserting there is only one entity composed in Russia.
You are repeating a lot of logical fallacies, you should pay a bit better attention if you want constructive dialogue.
Dizerner
Well-known member
False. You have assumed, not proven, that God is only one person like I am.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Well, at least you are talking about God as a single person.
That language is embedded throughout the Bible, and throughout your daily use. Am I correct?
I don't mean 90% of the time, but pretty much 99.9% of the time.
Since language reflects in good measure how we thing, I suppose I am making an educated guess in saying that you treat God as a single person because you think in God as a single person.
Would that be so bad, Dizerner? No, it would be the natural way to do it. The way Jesus did it.
If you have said "God can submit to themselves" or "God can submit to itself"... well, that would have sound weird, even if you think in God as a group.
But putting the pronouns aside, and going to the central concept of the post, God cannot submit his will to Himself.
Even if you think in God as a government of three persons, the government's will (if there is such a thing) cannot submit to itself.
You can say that the government of a state submits to the government of the federation... or that the government of Ukraine will end up submitting to the government of Russia... but what does it mean to say that the government submits its will to itself?
101G
Well-known member
Greeting brother,
May 101G ask you something as in concerning God will. Listen closely to the statement 101G is about to make. in the book of Revelation chapter 4 and 5. "He who sits on the throne is the same person who stand before it".
Let 101G. explain. ..... he who sits on the throne is Jesus the Lord the same ONE PERSON who stand before it.... again, who is JESUS God almighty. for he who sits on the throne "RECEIVED POWER". Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
he who sits on the throne "receive" power. and according to scripture this is the Lord Jesus. which is found in the GREAT COMMISSION. scripture, Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
if anyone who might say, no, it's the Father who sits on the throne, if so, GIVE book chapter and verse as to who gave the Father "POWER?". if you cannot find that scripture, then lets move on.
now..... he who stand before the throne. Revelation 5:1 "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals." .Revelation 5:2 "And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?" Revelation 5:3 "And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon." Revelation 5:4 "And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon." Revelation 5:5 "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth." Revelation 5:7 "And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."
the Lamb that was slain is this not the Lord Jesus? yes. and he the Lamb came and took the book out of his .... "OWN RIGHT HAND". now the answer to this mystery can be found in Matthews chapter 6. and there, one will get the understanding of God's Will and how ..... in the ECHAD of HIMSELF it works in submission unto his OWN self. and this submission we can understand why .... ONLY .... the Father knows the day and the hour when he, God, the Lord Jesus returns in POWER. Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." or Mark 13:32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." Mark 13:33 "Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is."
all of this is answered in understanding Matthews chapter 6.
Much in GL.
101G
atpollard
Well-known member
I am disinclined to wade into Oneness semantic debates, so I will offer a completely tangential observation instead:
Isn’t it interesting how the things that GOD created that are beyond mankind and fundamental to our physical reality exist in triune form?
“For ever since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through His workmanship [all His creation, the wonderful things that He has made], so that they [who fail to believe and trust in Him] are without excuse and without defense.” - [Romans 1:20 AMP]
Isn’t it interesting how the things that GOD created that are beyond mankind and fundamental to our physical reality exist in triune form?
- TIME: exists as Past, Present and Future. All three are “equally time” and yet, the Past is not the Present or Future and the Present is not the Future or Past, etc.
- SPACE: (the dimensions that exist, not ‘outer space’) exist as Length, Width and Depth. All three are “equally space” and yet, Length is not Width or Depth and Width is not Depth or Length, etc
- MATTER: even the most primitive people understand that there is Earth, Sea and Sky (Land, Water and Air) or (Solid, Liquid and Gas). These three create the building blocks of existence (and are responsible for Gravity, the bending of Space and Time caused by Matter). All three (Earth, Sea and Sky) are equally matter, but even a 2 year old understands that Land is not Water or Sky, etc.
“For ever since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through His workmanship [all His creation, the wonderful things that He has made], so that they [who fail to believe and trust in Him] are without excuse and without defense.” - [Romans 1:20 AMP]
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.
First, thanks for that reply, Interesting. but taking the end of your reply and working 101G's way back to the first of your post. yes, 101G totally believes in what was said in Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
these verses are true is taught right. for as the verses states, "for God hath shewed it unto US". yes, what may be KNOW of God is Clearly in the texts... the scriptures themselves. but as said if taught correctly and thank God for the Holy Spirit. now, 101G is not going to say he knows all and everything about God, no, because 101G do not know everything about God. but what have been revealed about God in the scriptures concerning his creation is more than enough.
as for "TIME", "SPACE", and "MATTER". this was REVEALED in the very first verse in the bible. right in the term "beginning". Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." this one verse tells us who God is in "TIME", "SPACE", and "MATTER". for the Hebrew term "beginning" is H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218
101G's source for this definition is the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments. in definition #1 is the "TIME", "SPACE", and "MATTER" answer concerning God. Time is self explanatory, as a result of SPACE and MATTER... see below**. "MATTER" is the PLACE in TIME. in order to have a PLACE, and SPACE in a CREATION, one has to have more than one piece of MATTER/OBJECT in SPACE. what do 101G mean? TIME. ** example. say for instance you have one Planet, (just for argument, Earth). and you have another Object/Matter the moon. why is this so important to have two OBJECTS/MATTER ? answer, for if we had only one OBJECT/MATTER there could be no MEASURMENT, A. the difference in how close one object gets to another object, and b. How long it will take to get to the Object. for if there is only ONE OBJECT/MATTER then there could be no MEASUREMENT. if the OBJECT/MATTER is getting closer, or father away from any point in Space. or if we were the ONLY OBJECT/MATTER say for instance in a empty universe, we then would be immortal, or no time to pass, for there is no measurement to implement.
so the creation story in Genesis 1 is an explosion of "TIME", "SPACE", and "MATTER", and this is also on the sub-atomic scale also.
and to answer your Last or first reply. no the universe... seen and unseen exist in in a plurality of, of, of, a singularity for there is no end.
and side-note. 101G is not a Oneness as some teach, no, 101G is a Diversified Oneness", simply put, a plurality of a Singularity. and this is exactly what God is in his creation. a plurality in "TIME", "SPACE", and "MATTER" as an ORDINAL of himself. and this Ordinal designation in "TIME", "SPACE", and "MATTER" this Ordinal designation shows his Singularity as ONE "PERSON" who is ONE God. if we all just clearly understand the term OT, H259 ECHAD, and the NT term G243 Allos, then everything in the bible will fall into place perfectly. and all question are answered correctly and without conflict, or contradiction. it's just amazing, and a state of freedom in the KNOWLEDGE of God, being taught correctly in Spirit and TRUTH.
in much GL.
101G
