Eternal Security

We know that Peter was a believer because when Christ asked Peter who he thought He was, Peter answered,

Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matthew 16:16

Then Jesus confirms Peter's important in establishing the early church.

Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church. Matthew 16:17–18

On another occasion Jesus asked the Twelve if they would abandon Him as many of His other followers had begun to do (see John 6:67). Once again Peter’s answer reveals his faith in the Savior:

Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. And we have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God. —John 6:68–69

Peter was a believer all right, but his faith was not unshakable. And Jesus knew it. On the night of His arrest, Jesus broke the news to Peter,

Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat. Luke 22:31

Then Jesus said... But I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.
Luke 22:32,

Satan’s attack would go right after Peter’s faith. Jesus anticipated that. And He anticipated Peter’s temporary defeat as well. But nowhere did Peter’s salvation come into question.

Think about that for a minute. Jesus said Peter was going to turn away from Him; that he would deny Him publicly at the most crucial time in His earthly life; and that his faith would be dealt a severe blow. Yet His final words to Peter were words of comfort. Peter was about to enter a time in which his faith would be in jeopardy—but not his salvation. Even though Peter would be faithless, Christ remained faithful!

That's my King!
Not a good example. Peter apparently was affected by peer pressure, or maybe the fear of death, thinking he could be crucified too. Even after the cock crowed twice and the Lord looked at him, he wept and obviously was disappointed in himself. Hardly an example of someone who turns their back on Jesus for years or decades or even until death. You don't forfeit your salvation because of one lapse in faith. Be real, everyone of us has very likely done something very similar. Jesus said to forgive 70 X 7 times, IF your brother repents. So we can trust Him to do the same for us when we sin. The person who forsakes Jesus most likely would not even continue to ask for forgiveness, or be repentant. Only God knows when that line is crossed and maybe the person themselves might have a pretty good idea of when they left Jesus.
 
Not a good example. Peter apparently was affected by peer pressure, or maybe the fear of death, thinking he could be crucified too. Even after the cock crowed twice and the Lord looked at him, he wept and obviously was disappointed in himself. Hardly an example of someone who turns their back on Jesus for years or decades or even until death. You don't forfeit your salvation because of one lapse in faith. Be real, everyone of us has very likely done something very similar. Jesus said to forgive 70 X 7 times, IF your brother repents. So we can trust Him to do the same for us when we sin. The person who forsakes Jesus most likely would not even continue to ask for forgiveness, or be repentant. Only God knows when that line is crossed and maybe the person themselves might have a pretty good idea of when they left Jesus.
Exactly my friend you can't lose your salvation.
 
Exactly my friend you can't lose your salvation.

Christ did not lie to us when he said if we deny him before men, he will deny us.

Christ said "when you return to me." You can't return to something you don't leave.

It was Christ's prayer for Peter's faith that brought him back and gave him another chance.
 
Exactly my friend you can't lose your salvation.
Obviously not too many want to lose their salvation, but to believe it could never happen is to ignore the multitude of verses and passages and warnings of scripture, many of which have been posted here. Ignoring ANY scripture is not a smart thing to do. Just saying you can't lose your faith and salvation doesn't make it so. You have to back it up with scripture. You gave a fairly long list of verses supposedly supporting your views. I reviewed every one of them and showed clearly that NONE of them say what you want them to say. Instead of showing me in each of those verses where I was wrong, you just ignore it and keep believing a doctrine that is untrue.

Even your most recent reference to Peter. That has NOTHING to do with what we're discussing, which is why I said it was not a good example at all. Peter had a lapse in faith, but recovered in just days. He didn't even come close to losing his salvation. He was sorry for what he did, RIGHT AFTER DOING IT. People who lose their faith often reject Christ for years, maybe decades, maybe until death. They usually don't repent, they don't humble themselves, they don't pray, they don't seek forgiveness, they don't want anything to do with Jesus. If they did, I believe God would take them back, but many don't want to.
 
Words are only perverse for how you use them.

But, I was just joking.
Where did you come up with that? Not in the Bible, that's for sure. I hope your parents didn't teach you that. That is not true. There are many words that are perverse, no matter how or when they're used. Therefore, using those words in a joking manner does not make it okay.

"The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way AND THE PERVERTED MOUTH, I HATE."
 
Christ did not lie to us when he said if we deny him before men, he will deny us.

Christ said "when you return to me." You can't return to something you don't leave.

It was Christ's prayer for Peter's faith that brought him back and gave him another chance.
No loss of salvation there and the verse as usual was ripped from its context
 
No loss of salvation there and the verse as usual was ripped from its context
Dizerner and Civic,
You guys are right on target. How about these verses?

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. RESIST HIM, STEADFAST IN THE FAITH, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world." 1 Peter 5:8

The devil not only wants to destroy your life now, but he wants to see you burn in hell later.

If it isn't possible to lose our salvation, they why would Peter feel it was necessary to warn his fellow Christians like this?

"Therefore let him who thinks he stands (once saved, always saved) take heed lest he fall." 1 Corinthians 10:12

If it isn't possible to lose our salvation, then why would Paul talk like this?
 
Dizerner and Civic,
You guys are right on target. How about these verses?

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. RESIST HIM, STEADFAST IN THE FAITH, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world." 1 Peter 5:8

The devil not only wants to destroy your life now, but he wants to see you burn in hell later.

If it isn't possible to lose our salvation, they why would Peter feel it was necessary to warn his fellow Christians like this?

"Therefore let him who thinks he stands (once saved, always saved) take heed lest he fall." 1 Corinthians 10:12

If it isn't possible to lose our salvation, then why would Paul talk like this?
I understand both sides of the argument because I have believed both ways in the past. if eternal life can be taken away or removed then its a misnomer and should be called temporal life or conditional life but its not and it is called eternal life for a good reason. It never ends.
 
Paul uses the term adoption to describe the process by which God establishes a relationship with a man or woman who trusts Christ as the Savior:

For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. Romans 8:15–16

I like the way Paul capitalizes on the relational value of adoption. We are encouraged to think of our heavenly Father in the most intimate way, as a Daddy. God desires an intimate relationship with us. And He has taken it upon Himself to remove every possible barrier. That's why the curtain at the entrance of the Temple was ripped open. The curtain signified that man was separated from God by sin. Isaiah 59:1-2 Once you accept what Jesus did on the cross you'll never be separated from him again. It's important to have faith in the finish work of Christ.

Eternal life as mentioned in the previous post Is just that, Eternal. How could you possibly witness to someone about eternal life, and then go... oh yeah by the way if you don't act right or you get tired of it you can lose your eternal life. That's like telling someone that salvation is a gift of God that you can accept but God may take back under certain circumstances.

Paul goes on to say in Galatians:
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Galatians 4:4–5

Once you are a adopted son or daughter of God, He's not going to UN adopt you.

Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24

As a believer, you will never be judged for your sins. That is a settled issue. It is so settled in the mind of God that at the moment of your salvation, knowing full and well all the sins you were yet to commit, God adopted you into His family
 
I understand both sides of the argument because I have believed both ways in the past. if eternal life can be taken away or removed then its a misnomer and should be called temporal life or conditional life but its not and it is called eternal life for a good reason. It never ends.
That does cause some confusion. But Jesus said that He was the way, the truth, and the life. (Eternal life) I think eternal life is a Person, but it is also an infinite "period of time" that we will be with Him, IF we keep the faith. Jesus IS eternal life or as John said it: " ... this life is IN HIS SON."

1 John 5:11 "And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

John 3:15 "... so that whoever believes WILL IN HIM HAVE ETERNAL LIFE."

It's a package deal - without being IN JESUS, you can't have eternal life. If you abide in Jesus, you get both. If you don't abide in Him, you get neither.

John 17:3 "This IS ETERNAL LIFE, THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT."

IF we abide in Him, we have the Son and the life. IF we do not abide in Him, we do not have the Son nor the life.
 
That does cause some confusion. But Jesus said that He was the way, the truth, and the life. (Eternal life) I think eternal life is a Person, but it is also an infinite "period of time" that we will be with Him, IF we keep the faith. Jesus IS eternal life or as John said it: " ... this life is IN HIS SON."

1 John 5:11 "And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

John 3:15 "... so that whoever believes WILL IN HIM HAVE ETERNAL LIFE."

It's a package deal - without being IN JESUS, you can't have eternal life. If you abide in Jesus, you get both. If you don't abide in Him, you get neither.

John 17:3 "This IS ETERNAL LIFE, THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT."

IF we abide in Him, we have the Son and the life. IF we do not abide in Him, we do not have the Son nor the life.
And I think/ believe that those who are born again will abide in Him. That they will continue in the faith. And if they appear to walk away they will return again like the prodigal son.
 
Paul uses the term adoption to describe the process by which God establishes a relationship with a man or woman who trusts Christ as the Savior:

For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. Romans 8:15–16

I like the way Paul capitalizes on the relational value of adoption. We are encouraged to think of our heavenly Father in the most intimate way, as a Daddy. God desires an intimate relationship with us. And He has taken it upon Himself to remove every possible barrier. That's why the curtain at the entrance of the Temple was ripped open. The curtain signified that man was separated from God by sin. Isaiah 59:1-2 Once you accept what Jesus did on the cross you'll never be separated from him again. It's important to have faith in the finish work of Christ.

Eternal life as mentioned in the previous post Is just that, Eternal. How could you possibly witness to someone about eternal life, and then go... oh yeah by the way if you don't act right or you get tired of it you can lose your eternal life. That's like telling someone that salvation is a gift of God that you can accept but God may take back under certain circumstances.

Dwight -That's the problem. Christians telling people that salvation is a free gift and once you receive it, you're in ... oh yeah, by the way, if you ever decide you don't want to follow Jesus, or you get tired of it - too bad, you no longer have free will to reject God - He is forcing you to stay saved. You no longer have the choice to voluntarily follow God. He is FORCING YOU TO STAY.

Dwight - INSTEAD OF telling people the REAL GOSPEL that you must repent of your sins and make a LIFETIME commitment to trust and obey Jesus. You must follow the apostle Paul's example when he was close to his martyrdom: "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I HAVE KEPT THE FAITH;"

And I think/ believe that those who are born again will abide in Him. That they will continue in the faith. And if they appear to walk away they will return again like the prodigal son.
Experience in the real world shows us that, unfortunately, that's not always what happens.
 
Dwight -That's the problem. Christians telling people that salvation is a free gift and once you receive it, you're in ... oh yeah, by the way, if you ever decide you don't want to follow Jesus, or you get tired of it - too bad, you no longer have free will to reject God - He is forcing you to stay saved. You no longer have the choice to voluntarily follow God. He is FORCING YOU TO STAY.

Dwight - INSTEAD OF telling people the REAL GOSPEL that you must repent of your sins and make a LIFETIME commitment to trust and obey Jesus. You must follow the apostle Paul's example when he was close to his martyrdom: "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I HAVE KEPT THE FAITH;"



Experience in the real world shows us that, unfortunately, that's not always what happens.
The flip side would be they were really never born again which is why they fell away. Think of the parable of the sower and the 4 soils.
 
Dwight -That's the problem. Christians telling people that salvation is a free gift and once you receive it, you're in ... oh yeah, by the way, if you ever decide you don't want to follow Jesus, or you get tired of it - too bad, you no longer have free will to reject God - He is forcing you to stay saved. You no longer have the choice to voluntarily follow God. He is FORCING YOU TO STAY.

Dwight - INSTEAD OF telling people the REAL GOSPEL that you must repent of your sins and make a LIFETIME commitment to trust and obey Jesus. You must follow the apostle Paul's example when he was close to his martyrdom: "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I HAVE KEPT THE FAITH;"



Experience in the real world shows us that, unfortunately, that's not always what happens.
And I think/ believe that those who are born again will abide in Him. That they will continue in the faith. And if they appear to walk away they will return again like the prodigal son.
If that were true then Jesus would not have had to tell us to "abide in Him" - we would automatically follow Him like born again robots. We would automatically continue in the faith, as do all Christian robots. If we ever pretend, as a robot disciple to walk away from Jesus, He will press His remote button and we will automatically return - just like the prodigal son who was forced to return to his father - he didn't do it voluntarily.

The sobering truth is that Jesus also warned us what will happen if we don't abide in Him. It's not a pretty picture.
 
If that were true then Jesus would not have had to tell us to "abide in Him" - we would automatically follow Him like born again robots. We would automatically continue in the faith, as do all Christian robots. If we ever pretend, as a robot disciple to walk away from Jesus, He will press His remote button and we will automatically return - just like the prodigal son who was forced to return to his father - he didn't do it voluntarily.

The sobering truth is that Jesus also warned us what will happen if we don't abide in Him. It's not a pretty picture.
He told His 12 disciples to abide in Him.
 
The flip side would be they were really never born again which is why they fell away. Think of the parable of the sower and the 4 soils.
That is probably true for a portion of the people. I don't disagree with that. But do you agree that the other portion of the people were genuine born again Christians?
 
Look at these two passages in John’s Gospel. In the first, John 6:37–44, Jesus tells us explicitly that the will of the Father is that he “should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day” (John 6:39–40). Jesus’s argument in these verses must be carefully noted.

In John’s Gospel, Chapter 6 , Chapter 10 and Chapter 17 divine election is described in terms of God the Father giving certain persons to God the Son. In each of these cases the giving of men to Christ precedes and is the cause of their receiving eternal life. Jesus says it is impossible for someone whom the Father draws not to come to him. He says in verse 37, “All that the Father gives me will come to me.”

To these two impossibilities Jesus adds a third: he says that when people do come through the drawing of the Father, it is impossible for them to be cast out. Look again at verse 37: “And whoever comes to me I will never cast out.” The point is that those that the Father gives to the Son, who therefore come to the Son, will be received by the Son and shall never perish. They have eternal life. The verb translated “cast out” in verse 37 is used several times in John and always means to cast out someone or something already in.

Thus the emphasis here is not so much on receiving the one who comes but on preserving him or her. Who would suggest that Jesus Christ would refuse to accept what his Father has given him? If the Father was pleased to make a gift of certain sinners to his most blessed Son, you may rest assured that the Son will neither despise nor deny his Father’s gracious generosity.

The certainty of ultimate and absolute salvation for those who come to the Son is reaffirmed in John 6:38–40. Their life in Christ is eternal and irrevocable because that is the will of the Father, a will or a purpose that the whole of Christ’s person and work was designed to secure and that shall ultimately be fulfilled.

To deny eternal security means that when Jesus said he will raise up finally and forever all those given to him by the Father, he was misleading us. He should have said, “I hope to do so,” or “I’ll give it my best shot,” but the fact remains that he will raise up all those given to him by the Father.

How can Jesus say he will raise up all the Father gives him if in fact he will not, because some who truly believe in him finally and forever fall away and forfeit eternal life? That would be calling Jesus a liar, when in fact he is the truth.
 
Look at these two passages in John’s Gospel. In the first, John 6:37–44, Jesus tells us explicitly that the will of the Father is that he “should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day” (John 6:39–40). Jesus’s argument in these verses must be carefully noted.

In John’s Gospel, Chapter 6 , Chapter 10 and Chapter 17 divine election is described in terms of God the Father giving certain persons to God the Son. In each of these cases the giving of men to Christ precedes and is the cause of their receiving eternal life. Jesus says it is impossible for someone whom the Father draws not to come to him. He says in verse 37, “All that the Father gives me will come to me.”

To these two impossibilities Jesus adds a third: he says that when people do come through the drawing of the Father, it is impossible for them to be cast out. Look again at verse 37: “And whoever comes to me I will never cast out.” The point is that those that the Father gives to the Son, who therefore come to the Son, will be received by the Son and shall never perish. They have eternal life. The verb translated “cast out” in verse 37 is used several times in John and always means to cast out someone or something already in.

Thus the emphasis here is not so much on receiving the one who comes but on preserving him or her. Who would suggest that Jesus Christ would refuse to accept what his Father has given him? If the Father was pleased to make a gift of certain sinners to his most blessed Son, you may rest assured that the Son will neither despise nor deny his Father’s gracious generosity.

The certainty of ultimate and absolute salvation for those who come to the Son is reaffirmed in John 6:38–40. Their life in Christ is eternal and irrevocable because that is the will of the Father, a will or a purpose that the whole of Christ’s person and work was designed to secure and that shall ultimately be fulfilled.

To deny eternal security means that when Jesus said he will raise up finally and forever all those given to him by the Father, he was misleading us. He should have said, “I hope to do so,” or “I’ll give it my best shot,” but the fact remains that he will raise up all those given to him by the Father.

How can Jesus say he will raise up all the Father gives him if in fact he will not, because some who truly believe in him finally and forever fall away and forfeit eternal life? That would be calling Jesus a liar, when in fact he is the truth.
Amen
 
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