Eternal Security

[Diserner]

That is probably true for a portion of the people. I don't disagree with that. But do you agree that the other portion of the people were genuine born again Christians?

I've listened to many former Christians who fell away, and yet they firmly believed OSAS.

To protect the OSAS baby, proponents have to say, every single former Christian, no matter how much good fruit they seemed to bear, and how much Christ-like behavior and attitude they seemed to have, were every single one not even ever saved.

And yet, these former Christians bore more good fruit and good works, then the current irritating OSAS lovers.

How do they know they are not currently unsaved and will one day find out?

And Lordship OSAS—what a ridiculous double-speaking mess of confusion!

They want to have their "works cake" and eat their OSAS too! The best of both worlds by just denying logic!

Yet, they bear less measurable fruit than former Christians who, to protect their golden calf idols, they claim could never have been saved—making a literally unfalsiable position!

This is the same argument they try to use against Calvinism, that you can't know if you are currently elect or not!

OSAS takes the worst of Calvinism, it's really Calvinistic at heart, and was never embraced to any wide extent before Calvinism.

Now imagine if hypothetically civic falls away in a few years.

"Oh, derp! I guess I never was saved to begin with!"

I can point you to people who literally believed OSAS, preached OSAS, who now reject Christianity.

Even under their own system, that is no security at all, because there is literally no logical way to know if they are "false converts" or not!

Hey... you MIGHT be eternally secure if you HAPPEN to be saved... WHO KNOWS, LOL.

Yet Scripture tells us we can know, and all that currently believed were saved.

This is such an illogical mass of contradicting confusion, it can only be a spiritual blindness.

 

[Diserner]

How to DESTROY the Doctrine of OSAS in Less Than 5 MINUTES!!!

 

[Unmerited]

Don't hold your breath Cuz it's never going to happen. If our salvation can be lost, our adoption into the family of God is not permanent. We can be unadopted, so to speak. Such a process, however, is never described or even alluded to in the New Testament. Never once are believers threatened with losing membership in the family of God. Jesus taught just the opposite. As far as Jesus was and is concerned, adoption is forever!

 

[Diserner]

Don't hold your breath Cuz it's never going to happen. If our salvation can be lost, our adoption into the family of God is not permanent. We can be unadopted, so to speak. Such a process, however, is never described or even alluded to in the New Testament. Never once are believers threatened with losing membership in the family of God. Jesus taught just the opposite. As far as Jesus was and is concerned, adoption is forever!

It's made up lies that were never part of the church until Calvinism was introduced.

Only the Gnostics originally believed in eternal security.

Jesus clearly lays out conditions and warnings.

Under your made up system of eternal security, warnings and conditions make no logical sense.

I encourage you to read the Bible with fresh eyes and ask God to show you were you might be deceived.

God bless!

 

[dwight92070]

Amen

Amen

Look at these two passages in John’s Gospel. In the first, John 6:37–44, Jesus tells us explicitly that the will of the Father is that he “should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day” (John 6:39–40). Jesus’s argument in these verses must be carefully noted.

This gets a little tiring, because you guys won't debate point- by- point, or I should say verse-by-verse. Rather you just ignore my interpretation of the same scriptures you use, because I don't agree with you. Then you present your scripture and interpretation and say "See, we're right."

So let's look at the scripture that you just now brought up, John 6:39-40:

You didn't bother to investigate WHO are the ones that the Father gave Him. You ASSUME that God just "divinely elected" certain unsaved people and gave them to Jesus to get saved. Wrong on both counts.

Jesus mentions those who the Father gave Him again in John 17:6: "I manifested Your name to the men whom you gave Me out of the world; THEY WERE YOURS and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word."

They were already belonged to THE FATHER before Jesus even started His ministry! That is, they were godly people (under the Old Covenant) who loved God, AND HAD THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM before Jesus even appeared on the scene. Joseph, Mary, the shepherds, the wise men, John the Baptist, John's parents, Zacharias and Elizabeth, Simeon, Anna, several of the men who were later part of the twelve, including Judas Iscariot, etc.

So they were were already servants of God, so when Jesus came, the Father gave those who ALREADY BELONGED TO HIM, to Jesus. They were not lost people who were divinely appointed to get saved. They were people who possessed the faith of Abraham in God, now being introduced to their Messiah, and expressing faith in Him. Again, not even God MADE them accept Jesus - God never forces people against their will. They loved God and now they also loved Jesus.

Under the New Covenant, we see the Father does draw unsaved people to Jesus, but they still have the freedom to accept or reject that drawing. God does not make us follow Jesus - we can if we want to or we don't have to. It's called free will.

In John’s Gospel, Chapter 6 , Chapter 10 and Chapter 17 divine election is described in terms of God the Father giving certain persons to God the Son. In each of these cases the giving of men to Christ precedes and is the cause of their receiving eternal life. Jesus says it is impossible for someone whom the Father draws not to come to him. He says in verse 37, “All that the Father gives me will come to me.”

That's Calvinist doctrine, not what this verse is saying. The Father gave Judas Iscariot to Jesus and, at first, he did come to Jesus, but later left Jesus and his faith. This verse does not use the word "impossible"- that's the word Calvinist's interject. This is not an absolute statement. It's a general statement which is usaully the case. When Jesus says that all that the Father gives Him will come to Him, He's not cancelling their free will and making them come to Him. Along with Judas, MANY were disciples, but later left Jesus - John 6:66 Probably MOST whom the Father gave came to Him, but apparently some did not. Judas, ultimately DID NOT COME TO JESUS and chose to leave his faith and Jesus. Many others left Jesus too.

To these two impossibilities Jesus adds a third: he says that when people do come through the drawing of the Father, it is impossible for them to be cast out. Look again at verse 37: “And whoever comes to me I will never cast out.” The point is that those that the Father gives to the Son, who therefore come to the Son, will be received by the Son and shall never perish. They have eternal life. The verb translated “cast out” in verse 37 is used several times in John and always means to cast out someone or something already in.

True, He will never cast anyone out. Nor will He stop anyone who chooses to leave, just as the Prodigal's father allowed his son to leave.

Thus the emphasis here is not so much on receiving the one who comes but on preserving him or her. Who would suggest that Jesus Christ would refuse to accept what his Father has given him? If the Father was pleased to make a gift of certain sinners to his most blessed Son, you may rest assured that the Son will neither despise nor deny his Father’s gracious generosity.

The Father already gave the Old Testament believers to Jesus and MOST of them freely chose to follow Him.

The certainty of ultimate and absolute salvation for those who come to the Son is reaffirmed in John 6:38–40. Their life in Christ is eternal and irrevocable because that is the will of the Father, a will or a purpose that the whole of Christ’s person and work was designed to secure and that shall ultimately be fulfilled.

All of that is Calvinist interpretation, NOT what those verses say. Once again, He did lose Judas Iscariot, not because God MADE JUDAS defect, but because he chose to leave of his own free will. "The certainty of ultimate and absolute salvation??" These are not the words of the Bible, these are the words of a man-made doctrine, which CANNOT BE RECONCILED with ALL of the warnings of turning back, straying from the faith, not abiding in Him, having an evil unbelieving heart, continuing in the faith, and all the other verses that I quoted that no one seems to want to show me where I'm wrong.

To deny eternal security means that when Jesus said he will raise up finally and forever all those given to him by the Father, he was misleading us. He should have said, “I hope to do so,” or “I’ll give it my best shot,” but the fact remains that he will raise up all those given to him by the Father.

No, actually you're misleading us by not properly interpreting these few verses and not even touching all the other verses that I quoted or that I gave an interpretation to.

How can Jesus say he will raise up all the Father gives him if in fact he will not, because some who truly believe in him finally and forever fall away and forfeit eternal life? That would be calling Jesus a liar, when in fact he is the truth.

The one who is not telling the truth is Calvin and his followers

 

[Diserner]

The certainty of ultimate and absolute salvation for those who come to the Son is reaffirmed in John 6:38–40. Their life in Christ is eternal and irrevocable because that is the will of the Father, a will or a purpose that the whole of Christ’s person and work was designed to secure and that shall ultimately be fulfilled.

Jesus never says all those drawn will necessarily be raised up.

That logical connection is never made in the verses, but constantly inferred by Calvinists.

Every branch "in me" that does not bear fruit is cut off and burned—lost people are not "in Christ."

 

[Redeemed]

If you're saved and you know it, then you have eternal life.

Dictionaries define “eternal” as “without beginning or end”; “everlasting”; “timeless”; and “forever the same; always true or valid; unchangeable.”
If the purposes of God in salvation have been established from eternity, nothing in time can thwart them because time itself is foreign to eternity. To state the obvious, whatever is established in eternity for eternity is established forever.

Scripture tells us that the believer is, or will be, the possessor of a number of things to which the word “eternal” is added.

For example, to list a few Scriptures, the believer looks forward to an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison:
17 For our light, momentary affliction (this slight distress of the passing hour) is ever more and more abundantly preparing and producing and achieving for us an everlasting weight of glory beyond all measure, excessively surpassing all comparisons and all calculations, a vast and transcendent glory and blessedness never to cease! 2 Corinthians 4:17

is in the eternal purpose of God:
This is in accordance with the terms of the eternal and timeless purpose which He has realized and carried into effect in [the person of] Christ Jesus our Lord, Ephesians 3:11

has eternal comfort:
Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, Who loved us and gave us everlasting consolation and encouragement and well-founded hope through [His] grace (unmerited favor), 2 Thessalonians 2:16

has eternal redemption:
He went once for all into the [Holy of] Holies [of heaven], not by virtue of the blood of goats and calves [by which to make reconciliation between God and man], but His own blood, having found and secured a complete redemption (an everlasting release for us) Hebrews 9:12

and is called by God to eternal glory:
And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace [Who imparts all blessing and favor], Who has called you to His [own] eternal glory in Christ Jesus, will Himself complete and make you what you ought to be, establish and ground you securely, and strengthen, and settle you 1 Peter 5:10

The Scriptures repeatedly employ the term “eternal life” in reference to the believer.

If God had intended to convey the idea that a believer could never be lost, He could not have spoken in clearer terms than to use the term eternal. If He had intended to convey the idea that a believer could be lost, He would never have spoken of eternal life as a present possession.

You can't lose eternal life. Why? Because it's eternal.

 

[Diserner]

The Scriptures repeatedly employ the term “eternal life” in reference to the believer.

If God had intended to convey the idea that a believer could never be lost, He could not have spoken in clearer terms than to use the term eternal. If He had intended to convey the idea that a believer could be lost, He would never have spoken of eternal life as a present possession.

You can't lose eternal life. Why? Because it's eternal.

This is such utterly ridiculous logic, I really don't know why anyone finds it convincing.

It's called "equivocation," using two different senses of the same word in different contexts.

If you receive eternal life, does that mean you literally lived from all eternity?

It's eternal in quality, not in quantity—else you would have to have literally already lived forever.

 

[Burdock]

There's an expression I used to hear back in the day... "You better check yourself before you wreck yourself". I don't think it came from the Bible but it Is similar to this verse in 2 Corinthians

“Keep testing yourselves to see if you are in the faith. Keep examining yourselves! Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you unless indeed you fail to meet the test?” 2 Cor. 13:5

Makes me wonder that if these brothers in the days of having Paul found their congregation, who spent sixteen months under the guidance of the greatest, inspired Christian, needed to self-examine themselves, how much more should we need to do so, as we are 2,000-years removed? If these brothers followed this advice to examine themselves, it would have offered them direction on how to walk with God and let them know if they were on the right path.

Remember, Jesus warned, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Matt 7:21

In other words, not every Christian was going to enter into the kingdom, even though they felt that they were walking with God.

Jesus Set them straight in the next verse, “On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’” Matt. 7:22

Yes, these ones, who felt that they were walking with God, on that day they supposed that they were truly Christian, were in for a rude awakening. What is Jesus going to say to these ones, “And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” Matt. 7:23

What do you think these poor souls were lacking?

 

[dwight92070]

If you're saved and you know it, then you have eternal life.

Dictionaries define “eternal” as “without beginning or end”; “everlasting”; “timeless”; and “forever the same; always true or valid; unchangeable.”
If the purposes of God in salvation have been established from eternity, nothing in time can thwart them because time itself is foreign to eternity. To state the obvious, whatever is established in eternity for eternity is established forever.

Scripture tells us that the believer is, or will be, the possessor of a number of things to which the word “eternal” is added.

For example, to list a few Scriptures, the believer looks forward to an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison:
17 For our light, momentary affliction (this slight distress of the passing hour) is ever more and more abundantly preparing and producing and achieving for us an everlasting weight of glory beyond all measure, excessively surpassing all comparisons and all calculations, a vast and transcendent glory and blessedness never to cease! 2 Corinthians 4:17

is in the eternal purpose of God:
This is in accordance with the terms of the eternal and timeless purpose which He has realized and carried into effect in [the person of] Christ Jesus our Lord, Ephesians 3:11

has eternal comfort:
Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, Who loved us and gave us everlasting consolation and encouragement and well-founded hope through [His] grace (unmerited favor), 2 Thessalonians 2:16

has eternal redemption:
He went once for all into the [Holy of] Holies [of heaven], not by virtue of the blood of goats and calves [by which to make reconciliation between God and man], but His own blood, having found and secured a complete redemption (an everlasting release for us) Hebrews 9:12

and is called by God to eternal glory:
And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace [Who imparts all blessing and favor], Who has called you to His [own] eternal glory in Christ Jesus, will Himself complete and make you what you ought to be, establish and ground you securely, and strengthen, and settle you 1 Peter 5:10

The Scriptures repeatedly employ the term “eternal life” in reference to the believer.

If God had intended to convey the idea that a believer could never be lost, He could not have spoken in clearer terms than to use the term eternal. If He had intended to convey the idea that a believer could be lost, He would never have spoken of eternal life as a present possession.

You can't lose eternal life. Why? Because it's eternal.

 

[dwight92070]

If you're saved and you know it, then you have eternal life.

Dictionaries define “eternal” as “without beginning or end”; “everlasting”; “timeless”; and “forever the same; always true or valid; unchangeable.”
If the purposes of God in salvation have been established from eternity, nothing in time can thwart them because time itself is foreign to eternity. To state the obvious, whatever is established in eternity for eternity is established forever.

Scripture tells us that the believer is, or will be, the possessor of a number of things to which the word “eternal” is added.
For example, to list a few Scriptures, the believer looks forward to an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison:
17 For our light, momentary affliction (this slight distress of the passing hour) is ever more and more abundantly preparing and producing and achieving for us an everlasting weight of glory beyond all measure, excessively surpassing all comparisons and all calculations, a vast and transcendent glory and blessedness never to cease! 2 Corinthians 4:17

Yes, that's for the believer, not the one who stops believing.

is in the eternal purpose of God:
This is in accordance with the terms of the eternal and timeless purpose which He has realized and carried into effect in [the person of] Christ Jesus our Lord, Ephesians 3:11

has eternal comfort:
Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, Who loved us and gave us everlasting consolation and encouragement and well-founded hope through [His] grace (unmerited favor), 2 Thessalonians 2:16

"Us" is believers, not those who stop believing.

has eternal redemption:
He went once for all into the [Holy of] Holies [of heaven], not by virtue of the blood of goats and calves [by which to make reconciliation between God and man], but His own blood, having found and secured a complete redemption (an everlasting release for us) Hebrews 9:12

Eternal redemption for believers, not those who no longer believe.

and is called by God to eternal glory:
And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace [Who imparts all blessing and favor], Who has called you to His [own] eternal glory in Christ Jesus, will Himself complete and make you what you ought to be, establish and ground you securely, and strengthen, and settle you 1 Peter 5:10

"You" here refers to believers, not those who once believed but now don't.

The Scriptures repeatedly employ the term “eternal life” in reference to the believer.

Correct, not for the former believer.

If God had intended to convey the idea that a believer could never be lost, He could not have spoken in clearer terms than to use the term eternal. If He had intended to convey the idea that a believer could be lost, He would never have spoken of eternal life as a present possession.

"Who are you, O man, who answers back to God." Romans 9:20 God will choose the terms He uses. He doesn't need your input.

You can't lose eternal life. Why? Because it's eternal.

When you leave Jesus, you leave the eternal life that is in Him.

1 John 5:11 - "God has given us eternal life, AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."

When we walk away from and reject Jesus, we reject the eternal life WHICH IS IN HIM.

 

[dwight92070]

Dizerner, these Calvinists don't want to hear anything contrary to their beliefs, whether it's backed up with scripture or not, and God knows we have done that, which they just simply ignore. And then, when they give scripture, they don't look at it very carefully. Usually it's not saying what they think it is. They like to edit out the context, and just present the words, phrases, or parts of sentences that appear to agree with Calvinism. They NEVER bring up verses that warn believers of departing from the faith such as:

"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away (apostacize) from the faith." 1 Timothy 4:1 The dictionary says "apostacize" means "abandonment of a previous loyalty". So that means some believers who were previously loyal to Jesus, abandoned their faith and Him". And yet the Calvinists tell us that real believers will never apostacize, that it's impossible. May their Bible doesn't contain this verse.

Do you any Calvinist would dare comment on that verse? So far, no takers.

How about this verse? Hebrews 3:12 "Take care, brethren, (that means fellow believers) that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart in falling away from the living God." "Don't you know", the Calvinist tells us, "that believers can't fall away from God in unbelief - it's impossible." Really, I guess the author of Hebrews didn't get that memo.

Maybe a Calvinist could explain how this verse doesn't really mean what it says?

How about these verses? 1 Timothy 2:12-13 "IF WE (Paul was a believer) ENDURE, we will also reign with Him". (IF WE DON'T, we won't.) IF WE (believers) DENY HIM, HE ALSO WILL DENY US;"

Huh, the Calvinists are telling us that we are eternally secure, apparently EVEN IF WE DENY HIM. But the Bible tells us that He will deny us.

"If we are faithless, (the Calvinists say a true believer will never be faithless - Wrong again), HE REMAINS FAITHFUL -NOT TO SAVE US, which they want us to believe - He doesn't save faithless people. But even if we would turn our back on Jesus, that doesn't change His character, He is always faithful to save BELIEVERS, NOT UNBELIEVERS.

Or how about this verse?
James 4:19-20 "My brethren (fellow BELIEVERS), if any among you (that would be a fellow believer) strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins."

If this believer strays from the truth, this verse tells us his soul is on the way to death - that would be hell for you Calvinists. But I thought that once you're given eternal life, you could NEVER go to hell. Apparently the Calvinists are wrong again.

Is there ANY Calvinist out there who knows the REAL meaning of these verses, who could actually tell us the (Calvinist) truth that each verse presents??

Or will you all just run and hide and IGNORE everything just said, like you've all been doing, because you can't Biblically refute it?

 

[dwight92070]

There's an expression I used to hear back in the day... "You better check yourself before you wreck yourself". I don't think it came from the Bible but it Is similar to this verse in 2 Corinthians

“Keep testing yourselves to see if you are in the faith. Keep examining yourselves! Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you unless indeed you fail to meet the test?” 2 Cor. 13:5

Makes me wonder that if these brothers in the days of having Paul found their congregation, who spent sixteen months under the guidance of the greatest, inspired Christian, needed to self-examine themselves, how much more should we need to do so, as we are 2,000-years removed? If these brothers followed this advice to examine themselves, it would have offered them direction on how to walk with God and let them know if they were on the right path.

Remember, Jesus warned, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Matt 7:21

In other words, not every Christian was going to enter into the kingdom, even though they felt that they were walking with God.

Jesus Set them straight in the next verse, “On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’” Matt. 7:22

Yes, these ones, who felt that they were walking with God, on that day they supposed that they were truly Christian, were in for a rude awakening. What is Jesus going to say to these ones, “And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” Matt. 7:23

What do you think these poor souls were lacking?

We don't have to guess what they were lacking. Jesus tells us what they were lacking in verse 23: "I NEVER KNEW you, depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS."

So they did not really know Jesus and He did not know them. In this case, they were counterfeit Christians, pretending that they knew God and yet living a lifestyle of sin.

This does not negate the fact that even REAL Christians who know Jesus are capable of "turning away from the living God", thus forfeiting eternal life. Why is that possible (and not impossible as Calvinists want us to believe)? Because we will ALWAYS have a FREE WILL to follow Jesus or reject Jesus - which the Calvinists ALSO DENY.

 

[Redeemed]

If you're a true follower of Jesus your salvation is secure. If not eventually your fruit will betray you.

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

What do you do when people claim to be Christian, attend church on a regular basis, know the definitions of all those big theological words, and are even dedicated to ministry. Jesus warns us not to be gullible or to believe everything they say or that we see. This is clearly his point Matthew 7:15–23.

False prophets are nothing new. Wolves in sheep's clothing.

 

[civic]

This is such utterly ridiculous logic, I really don't know why anyone finds it convincing.

It's called "equivocation," using two different senses of the same word in different contexts.

If you receive eternal life, does that mean you literally lived from all eternity?

It's eternal in quality, not in quantity—else you would have to have literally already lived forever.

Eternal Life promised by Jesus lasts forever. Maybe its your logic or lack of faith that is the issue with the promises from Jesus with Eternal Life. Maybe I will compile a list of all the things you believe that are the opposite of what Jesus and the Apostles taught. I can come up with a half a dozen right off the top of my head. You sure throw out the "heretic" , false teacher, satan, wicked, hellbound and many other such words around towards others who disagree with you.

Now to the FACTS from Jesus and the Apostles.

In Johns writing we read the following regarding Jesus. He was in the beginning with God(John 1:1,1 John 1:1-4) We also read that in Him was life, the very source of life (John 1:4)whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life(3:16) He who believes in the Son has eternal life(3:36) He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day(6:54)This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent(17:3)These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life(1 John 5:13).

Jesus is in fact Eternal Life. He who has the Son has the life and he who does not have the Son does not have the life. He is the true God and Eternal Life(1 John 1:1-4,5:20).

Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has God’s life within him.

It is obvious that eternal life doesn’t begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didn’t say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life.

Jesus, Paul and John emphasize that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the Christian in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God.

Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ.

Paul tells us in Ephesians 4:30 that believers are sealed for the day of redemption. If believers did not have salvation or eternal life/security then the sealing could not truly be until the day of redemption. Paul in Romans 8:38-39 really drives home the everlasting promise of eternal life/salvation for the believer "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is bought with the blood of Christ, promised to us by the Father Who cannot deny Himself and sealed in the believers heart by the Holy Spirit. What wonderful promises believers have for their eternal security in Christ.

Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God.


John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.


John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."


Matt 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life,

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Redeemed]

This is such utterly ridiculous logic, I really don't know why anyone finds it convincing.

It's called "equivocation," using two different senses of the same word in different contexts.

If you receive eternal life, does that mean you literally lived from all eternity?

It's eternal in quality, not in quantity—else you would have to have literally already lived forever.

And there you are, at the beginning. God knew you before there was a “before,” at a time when the Father loved the Son, also “before the foundation of the world” John 17:24. Eternal life And eternal security go hand in hand for the believer.

 

[dwight92070]

Eternal Life promised by Jesus lasts forever. Maybe its your logic or lack of faith that is the issue with the promises from Jesus with Eternal Life. Maybe I will compile a list of all the things you believe that are the opposite of what Jesus and the Apostles taught. I can come up with a half a dozen right off the top of my head. You sure throw out the "heretic" , false teacher, satan, wicked, hellbound and many other such words around towards others who disagree with you.

Now to the FACTS from Jesus and the Apostles.

In Johns writing we read the following regarding Jesus. He was in the beginning with God(John 1:1,1 John 1:1-4) We also read that in Him was life, the very source of life (John 1:4)whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life(3:16) He who believes in the Son has eternal life(3:36) He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day(6:54)This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent(17:3)These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life(1 John 5:13).

Jesus is in fact Eternal Life. He who has the Son has the life and he who does not have the Son does not have the life. He is the true God and Eternal Life(1 John 1:1-4,5:20).

Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has God’s life within him.

It is obvious that eternal life doesn’t begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didn’t say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life.

Jesus, Paul and John emphasize that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the Christian in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God.

Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ.

Paul tells us in Ephesians 4:30 that believers are sealed for the day of redemption. If believers did not have salvation or eternal life/security then the sealing could not truly be until the day of redemption. Paul in Romans 8:38-39 really drives home the everlasting promise of eternal life/salvation for the believer "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is bought with the blood of Christ, promised to us by the Father Who cannot deny Himself and sealed in the believers heart by the Holy Spirit. What wonderful promises believers have for their eternal security in Christ.

Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God.


John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.


John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."


Matt 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life,

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

hope this helps !!!

Okay, show us your list of what we (apparently Dizerner and I agree on the fallacy of OSAS) believe that are opposite of what Jesus and the apostles (and don't forget Paul) taught. Don't forget the half dozen right off the top of your head.

 

[Eleazar]

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Don't you know?

 

[civic]

I've listened to many former Christians who fell away, and yet they firmly believed OSAS.

To protect the OSAS baby, proponents have to say, every single former Christian, no matter how much good fruit they seemed to bear, and how much Christ-like behavior and attitude they seemed to have, were every single one not even ever saved.

And yet, these former Christians bore more good fruit and good works, then the current irritating OSAS lovers.

How do they know they are not currently unsaved and will one day find out?

And Lordship OSAS—what a ridiculous double-speaking mess of confusion!

They want to have their "works cake" and eat their OSAS too! The best of both worlds by just denying logic!

Yet, they bear less measurable fruit than former Christians who, to protect their golden calf idols, they claim could never have been saved—making a literally unfalsiable position!

This is the same argument they try to use against Calvinism, that you can't know if you are currently elect or not!

OSAS takes the worst of Calvinism, it's really Calvinistic at heart, and was never embraced to any wide extent before Calvinism.

Now imagine if hypothetically civic falls away in a few years.

"Oh, derp! I guess I never was saved to begin with!"

I can point you to people who literally believed OSAS, preached OSAS, who now reject Christianity.

Even under their own system, that is no security at all, because there is literally no logical way to know if they are "false converts" or not!

Hey... you MIGHT be eternally secure if you HAPPEN to be saved... WHO KNOWS, LOL.

Yet Scripture tells us we can know, and all that currently believed were saved.

This is such an illogical mass of contradicting confusion, it can only be a spiritual blindness.

Falling away is not losing salvation , the prodigal son “ fell away” and returned. Until one dies in rebellion it’s never too late. Those who don’t were not saved in the first place. Your post was your personal opinion and subjective experience. Mormons, JWs and other heterodox religions do lots of good works. Yet they were not born again.

A person who is born does not become unborn , adoption with God is permanent and the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of the future inheritance as per Ephesians 1 and Roman’s 8. Nothing and no one can separate a born believer from Christ.
hope this helps !!!

 

[Khazar]

The best defense against the misconception of the possibility of losing one salvation is the helmet of God. The Roman soldier’s helmet was obviously designed to protect his head, so it is easy to see the parallel helmet of salvation protecting the believer’s mind from Satan’s attacks.

But the helmet of salvation is more than simply knowing that you’re a Christian. That is important, of course, but the helmet of salvation reaches far beyond the simple moment of salvation. It encompasses the whole scope of salvation—past, present, and future.

The enemy is constantly trying to wear down our defenses and corrupt our minds with temptation and rationalization and false teaching—anything to confuse our thinking about God and His purposes for our lives. Our only defense is to have the benefit of a mind that has lived in and conquered this world—and that is the mind of Christ. When we put on the helmet of salvation, we put on the mind of Christ and the wisdom of God. Christ wants to equip us with His plans, His thoughts, His concepts, His truth, and His revelation. With Him, we can stand strong against Satan’s furious attacks.

A key theme in the New Testament is that spiritual warfare is not fought like an earthly war “according to the flesh.” Rather, “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ”. 2 Corinthians 10:3–5

Peter expressed a similar idea: “Always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you”. 1 Peter 3:15 A defense is a well-reasoned answer, and that means using the mind to repel untruths about God and about faith in Him, and about our eternally secure salvation.

The mind must be engaged if we are to resist Satan’s attacks and promote and defend the faith. The primary battlefield for spiritual warfare is always the battlefield of the mind, where thoughts compete against one another. That’s why we must fill our minds with the biblical defenses of the faith.

Have faith in what Jesus said.
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. John 6:38-39

He's not going to lose you, if go astray he will leave the 99 and come and get you.