Eternal Security

[Biblelesson]

Infants are not born guilty of Adam's sin. They are born with the nature of sin, the propensity to sin, but they are not born guilty of sin. Sin is only imputed when there is knowledge of right and wrong and wrong is chosen.

"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not counted against anyone when there is no law."
Your comment here is just funny. We are not born guilty of sin, else Jesus would have been born guilty of sin, and so could not be our savior. David anticipated seeing his son again in Heaven, knowing that his son was born innocent and so would be going to Heaven, David said, "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I am going to him, but he will not return to me." 2 Sam 12:23


Our faith, not His faith. It is our faith which makes us pleasing to God, and our obedience which is the condition for our reception of His grace.

By these statements you make Scripture out to be a liar. Rom 10:9-10 contains two direct and specific conditions upon which salvation is received or not. Acts 3:19 contains a condition upon which forgiveness of sin (salvation) is received or not. Acts 2:38 contains two conditions upon which salvation is received or not. And there are many other examples. Heb 5:9 is very clear that Jesus is the author, the source, of salvation to those who obey Him.

David states that from the moment of his conception in his mother’s womb the power of sin was upon him: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me” (Ps 51:5). David was not charging his mother with sinful behavior in his conception but, rather, confessing the sinfulness he inherited at the moment his life came into being. Psalm 58:3 concurs: “The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth.”

Here's a good article on original sin.

Original Sin

Original Sin teaches that all mankind is joined to Adam in both the guilt and the corruption of his first sin.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[Doug Brents]

David states that from the moment of his conception in his mother’s womb the power of sin was upon him: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me” (Ps 51:5). David was not charging his mother with sinful behavior in his conception but, rather, confessing the sinfulness he inherited at the moment his life came into being. Psalm 58:3 concurs: “The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth.”

Here's a good article on original sin.

Original Sin

Original Sin teaches that all mankind is joined to Adam in both the guilt and the corruption of his first sin.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

The sinful nature? Yes. The guilt of sin? No.

God does not hold the son guilty of the father's sin (Eze 18:20). But the father's sin causes an environment in which the son shares in the father's sin, and so becomes guilty also. The Psalms is a terrible place in Scripture on which to base doctrine. Yes, they are inspired, but many of them contain gross exaggeration, hyperbole, and figurative language that challenges the understanding of right doctrine.

 

[Rockson]

The sinful nature? Yes. The guilt of sin? No.

God does not hold the son guilty of the father's sin (Eze 18:20). But the father's sin causes an environment in which the son shares in the father's sin, and so becomes guilty also. The Psalms is a terrible place in Scripture on which to base doctrine. Yes, they are inspired, but many of them contain gross exaggeration, hyperbole, and figurative language that challenges the understanding of right doctrine.

I agree. And David himself was aware that not every phrase he used should be taken literally. Saying's like none seeks after God is very similar to our day one expressing no one wants to serve God in our nation. They're all into this or all into that. We don't mean by that, that literally there is no one.....It's merely a figure of speech.

 

[Biblelesson]

The sinful nature? Yes. The guilt of sin? No.

God does not hold the son guilty of the father's sin (Eze 18:20). But the father's sin causes an environment in which the son shares in the father's sin, and so becomes guilty also. The Psalms is a terrible place in Scripture on which to base doctrine. Yes, they are inspired, but many of them contain gross exaggeration, hyperbole, and figurative language that challenges the understanding of right doctrine.

That's the first time I've ever heard "The Psalms" mentioned as being a terrible place to gain understanding. I admire how you have the understanding of how some things in the Bible are put forth in ways that confuse us in our modern day language.
I'll look for a section that has a thread on our sin nature and attempt to keep guys there. Thanks for your input and sharing your thoughts.

 

[Biblelesson]

I agree. And David himself was aware that not every phrase he used should be taken literally. Saying's like none seeks after God is very similar to our day one expressing no one wants to serve God in our nation. They're all into this or all into that. We don't mean by that, that literally there is no one.....It's merely a figure of speech.

I think I see what you're saying. Like David was just trying to stir our imagination and our thinking process. So some of the things in the Bible are merely a figure of speech speech. My only question is how do you distinguish the difference?

 

[Doug Brents]

That's the first time I've ever heard "The Psalms" mentioned as being a terrible place to gain understanding. I admire how you have the understanding of how some things in the Bible are put forth in ways that confuse us in our modern day language.
I'll look for a section that has a thread on our sin nature and attempt to keep guys there. Thanks for your input and sharing your thoughts.

I didn't say it was a terrible place to gain understanding. I said a terrible place to base or formulate doctrine. The psalms are great for helping us understand God, and how we should praise Him. But there is so much hyperbole and figurative language, that we cannot take quotes from the Psalms and use them as proof positive of our thoughts about God.

 

[Doug Brents]

I think I see what you're saying. Like David was just trying to stir our imagination and our thinking process. So some of the things in the Bible are merely a figure of speech speech. My only question is how do you distinguish the difference?

The difference is found in the context and a thorough study of the Scriptures. We must search through the whole of Scripture and let Scripture comment on Scripture. If two passages seem to be in conflict or contradiction, a third, fourth, or fifth may be needed to confirm the true meaning behind the first two.

 

[Aeliana]

Doing my devotions this morning I came across this scripture.

Is not my word like fire,” declares the Lord, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces? Jeremiah 23:29
I thought it might fit in.

 

[Biblelesson]

The difference is found in the context and a thorough study of the Scriptures. We must search through the whole of Scripture and let Scripture comment on Scripture. If two passages seem to be in conflict or contradiction, a third, fourth, or fifth may be needed to confirm the true meaning behind the first two.

Excellent, I think we should all do that. But as for the Book of Psalms it's important to note that the apostles frequently used references from the Book of Psalms as texts for teaching Christian doctrine. The forgiveness of sins by grace, the faithfulness of God, the sinfulness of all men, the inclusion of Gentiles in the church, the existence of angels, and the appropriate conduct of saints, are all doctrines reinforced by quotations from the Psalms.

 

[Doug Brents]

Excellent, I think we should all do that. But as for the Book of Psalms it's important to note that the apostles frequently used references from the Book of Psalms as texts for teaching Christian doctrine. The forgiveness of sins by grace, the faithfulness of God, the sinfulness of all men, the inclusion of Gentiles in the church, the existence of angels, and the appropriate conduct of saints, are all doctrines reinforced by quotations from the Psalms.

Absolutely, you are right. My comment was directed toward the use of passages that are obviously exaggerations that, if taken by themselves, can give a skewed view of reality.

 

[Biblelesson]

So the topic of this thread is eternal security, as a Calvinist I prefer the term "Perseverance of the Saints." All true Christians will persevere in faith until they are finally and fully saved.

Perseverance of the Saints does not teach that all professing Christians are going to heaven—Many professing Christians are not possessing Christians (are not real Christians). Only true Christians are on their way to heaven.

The doctrine of the The Perseverance of the Saints has a divine counterpart, the doctrine of the Preservation of the Saints. This is the part I love. That the Saints persevere until the end because God preserves them until the end. Christians continue on by faith but behind their faith is the mighty power of God, which constantly fuels and renews their faith

This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:5

God chooses us in salvation and he keeps us safe and secure. We don’t continue on because of our doggedness or our determination.

Those of us who hold this doctrine and those who deny this doctrine are usually very dogmatic concerning their beliefs and both groups appeal to a considerable body of Scripture to support their beliefs. Those who oppose the doctrine are often heated in their opposition. Some have declared the doctrine to be “a doctrine of demons, a doctrine hatched in hell.” Often this heated opposition comes from a gross misunderstanding of what the doctrine teaches, believing that it teaches that Christians can do as they please and yet go to heaven when they die.

There are many proof texts in the Bible that hold to the doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints. This is the one that I like Because it shows our heavenly Father wills that none of His “little ones” perish.

AT THAT time the disciples came up and asked Jesus, Who then is [really] the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And He called a little child to Himself and put him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Truly I say to you, unless you repent (change, turn about) and become like little children [trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving], you can never enter the kingdom of heaven [at all].
4 Whoever will humble himself therefore and become like this little child [trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving] is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoever receives and accepts and welcomes one little child like this for My sake and in My name receives and accepts and welcomes Me.
6 But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in and acknowledge and cleave to Me to stumble and sin [that is, who entices him or hinders him in right conduct or thought], it would be better (more expedient and profitable or advantageous) for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be sunk in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe to the world for such temptations to sin and influences to do wrong! It is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the person on whose account or by whom the temptation comes!
8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble and sin, cut it off and throw it away from you; it is better (more profitable and wholesome) for you to enter life maimed or lame than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into everlasting fire.
9 And if your eye causes you to stumble and sin, pluck it out and throw it away from you; it is better (more profitable and wholesome) for you to enter life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the hell (Gehenna) of fire.
10 Beware that you do not despise or feel scornful toward or think little of one of these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels always are in the presence of and look upon the face of My Father Who is in heaven.
11 For the Son of man came to save [from the penalty of eternal death] that which was lost.
12 What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray and gets lost, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountain and go in search of the one that is lost?
13 And if it should be that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices more over it than over the ninety-nine that did not get lost.
14 Just so it is not the will of My Father Who is in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost and perish.

Matthew 18:1–14
The Amplified Bible

 

[praise_yeshua]

David states that from the moment of his conception in his mother’s womb the power of sin was upon him: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me” (Ps 51:5). David was not charging his mother with sinful behavior in his conception but, rather, confessing the sinfulness he inherited at the moment his life came into being. Psalm 58:3 concurs: “The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth.”

Here's a good article on original sin.

Original Sin

Original Sin teaches that all mankind is joined to Adam in both the guilt and the corruption of his first sin.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

May I purpose an alternate view here....

There is NO DOUBT whatsoever that all human beings are peccable. We have the ability to sin. Adam had the ability to sin. He proved it by committing sin.

However, Adam repented. So did Eve. They had two children wherein one was righteous and the other chose differently. Abel is proof that man is also naturally capable of seeking God.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

As children (notice how Adam and Eve were not subjected to being born as infants) However, their children were not born capable of helping themselves. They must rely upon their parents for knowledge and information and basic care. (feeding, cleaning, etc). This is true of knowledge.

We are at the mercy of how we are taught by our parents and others. The descendents of Cain. Were taught differently than the descendents of Seth. Good vs evil.

All generations of the faithful have the same things in common. They've been taught differently. Perfect example.... Abraham. Notice what God said about Abraham.

Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

 

[Administrator]

Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

May I purpose an alternate view here....

There is NO DOUBT whatsoever that all human beings are peccable. We have the ability to sin. Adam had the ability to sin. He proved it by committing sin.

However, Adam repented. So did Eve. They had two children wherein one was righteous and the other chose differently. Abel is proof that man is also naturally capable of seeking God.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

As children (notice how Adam and Eve were not subjected to being born as infants) However, their children were not born capable of helping themselves. They must rely upon their parents for knowledge and information and basic care. (feeding, cleaning, etc). This is true of knowledge.

We are at the mercy of how we are taught by our parents and others. The descendents of Cain. Were taught differently than the descendents of Seth. Good vs evil.

All generations of the faith have the same things in common. They've been taught differently. Perfect example.... Abraham. Notice what God said about Abraham.

Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Very good viewpoint. I also think we could take into consideration DNA or bloodlines. I've noticed the Bible puts a lot of emphasis on bloodlines. Also on teaching our children the right thing.

Proverbs 22:6
"Train up a child in the way he should go, and [or even] when he is old he will not depart from it" This proverb is often interpreted as a promise to parents that if they raise their children in the right way, they will remain with the faith in which they are reared. The proverb emphasizes the importance of teaching children by fathers and mothers.

 

[Biblelesson]

Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

May I purpose an alternate view here....

There is NO DOUBT whatsoever that all human beings are peccable. We have the ability to sin. Adam had the ability to sin. He proved it by committing sin.

However, Adam repented. So did Eve. They had two children wherein one was righteous and the other chose differently. Abel is proof that man is also naturally capable of seeking God.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

As children (notice how Adam and Eve were not subjected to being born as infants) However, their children were not born capable of helping themselves. They must rely upon their parents for knowledge and information and basic care. (feeding, cleaning, etc). This is true of knowledge.

We are at the mercy of how we are taught by our parents and others. The descendents of Cain. Were taught differently than the descendents of Seth. Good vs evil.

All generations of the faith have the same things in common. They've been taught differently. Perfect example.... Abraham. Notice what God said about Abraham.

Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

I agree with the Administrators reply to your post.

 

[Doug Brents]

So the topic of this thread is eternal security, as a Calvinist I prefer the term "Perseverance of the Saints." All true Christians will persevere in faith until they are finally and fully saved.

Perseverance of the Saints does not teach that all professing Christians are going to heaven—Many professing Christians are not possessing Christians (are not real Christians). Only true Christians are on their way to heaven.

Paul said that he continually worked hard to keep his flesh under control so that, after preaching the Gospel to so many, and bringing so many to Christ, he himself would not be found disqualified from the prize (1 Cor 9:27). He knew that even he could miss Heaven if he did not continually keep his flesh under the control of the Spirit and continually walk in the Light (1 John 1:5-7). Not all saints will persevere.

The doctrine of the The Perseverance of the Saints has a divine counterpart, the doctrine of the Preservation of the Saints. This is the part I love. That the Saints persevere until the end because God preserves them until the end. Christians continue on by faith but behind their faith is the mighty power of God, which constantly fuels and renews their faith

This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:5

God chooses us in salvation and he keeps us safe and secure. We don’t continue on because of our doggedness or our determination.

It is actually both. We must guard ourselves, and God gives us the strength to guard.

Those of us who hold this doctrine and those who deny this doctrine are usually very dogmatic concerning their beliefs and both groups appeal to a considerable body of Scripture to support their beliefs. Those who oppose the doctrine are often heated in their opposition. Some have declared the doctrine to be “a doctrine of demons, a doctrine hatched in hell.” Often this heated opposition comes from a gross misunderstanding of what the doctrine teaches, believing that it teaches that Christians can do as they please and yet go to heaven when they die.

There are many proof texts in the Bible that hold to the doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints. This is the one that I like Because it shows our heavenly Father wills that none of His “little ones” perish.

AT THAT time the disciples came up and asked Jesus, Who then is [really] the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And He called a little child to Himself and put him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Truly I say to you, unless you repent (change, turn about) and become like little children [trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving], you can never enter the kingdom of heaven [at all].
4 Whoever will humble himself therefore and become like this little child [trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving]

How do you know that "trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving" is what Jesus meant here? Why do you put words in Jesus' mouth? Yes, these are some of the things that exemplify a "little child", but there is so much more that can be said, and those other traits are potentially more important. Don't limit the meaning of what God's Word says by putting your comments in without stating that "these are my opinions on what this means".

is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoever receives and accepts and welcomes one little child like this for My sake and in My name receives and accepts and welcomes Me.
6 But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in and acknowledge and cleave to Me to stumble and sin [that is, who entices him or hinders him in right conduct or thought], it would be better (more expedient and profitable or advantageous) for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be sunk in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe to the world for such temptations to sin and influences to do wrong! It is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the person on whose account or by whom the temptation comes!
8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble and sin, cut it off and throw it away from you; it is better (more profitable and wholesome) for you to enter life maimed or lame than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into everlasting fire.
9 And if your eye causes you to stumble and sin, pluck it out and throw it away from you; it is better (more profitable and wholesome) for you to enter life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the hell (Gehenna) of fire.

These last two verses completely destroy the "perseverance of the saints" doctrine. What is Jesus saying? If your hand or eye (the flesh) causes you to sin, then cut if off or out. Is that meant literally? Not unless that is absolutely necessary. But His meaning is to keep the flesh under control (as Paul said in 1 Cor 9) and prevent sin from condemning the person. And this is directed at His Apostles and other disciples, those that would become the beginnings of the Church.

10 Beware that you do not despise or feel scornful toward or think little of one of these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels always are in the presence of and look upon the face of My Father Who is in heaven.
11 For the Son of man came to save [from the penalty of eternal death] that which was lost.
12 What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray and gets lost, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountain and go in search of the one that is lost?
13 And if it should be that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices more over it than over the ninety-nine that did not get lost.
14 Just so it is not the will of My Father Who is in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost and perish.

Matthew 18:1–14
The Amplified Bible

 

[Biblelesson]

Paul said that he continually worked hard to keep his flesh under control so that, after preaching the Gospel to so many, and bringing so many to Christ, he himself would not be found disqualified from the prize (1 Cor 9:27). He knew that even he could miss Heaven if he did not continually keep his flesh under the control of the Spirit and continually walk in the Light (1 John 1:5-7). Not all saints will persevere.

It is actually both. We must guard ourselves, and God gives us the strength to guard.

How do you know that "trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving" is what Jesus meant here? Why do you put words in Jesus' mouth? Yes, these are some of the things that exemplify a "little child", but there is so much more that can be said, and those other traits are potentially more important. Don't limit the meaning of what God's Word says by putting your comments in without stating that "these are my opinions on what this means".

These last two verses completely destroy the "perseverance of the saints" doctrine. What is Jesus saying? If your hand or eye (the flesh) causes you to sin, then cut if off or out. Is that meant literally? Not unless that is absolutely necessary. But His meaning is to keep the flesh under control (as Paul said in 1 Cor 9) and prevent sin from condemning the person. And this is directed at His Apostles and other disciples, those that would become the beginnings of the Church.

Some people just don't know how Saved they really are. My best advice is that if you loses your salvation search for it immediately leave no stone unturned. It's there somewhere you didn't lose it it's only misplaced.

But that's not likely to happen since when a person comes to Jesus through the drawing of the Father, it is impossible for him to be turned away or cast out.

Look at how Jesus says this in John 6:37-40.

“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day”

Notice that three times in the span of four verses Jesus declares that it is impossible for someone whom the Father has given him and drawn to him, to ever be cast out or not reach the end of life saved and secure: “I will never cast out” / “I should lose nothing of all that he has given me” / “I will raise him up on the last day”. If that were not enough, Jesus says it again “and I will raise him up on the last day.”

So who you going to believe?

 

[Fellow Traveler]

I have to go with what the Bible says.

“I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand” (John 10:28-29).

“Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life” (Rom. 5:9-10).

“For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified” (Rom. 8:29-30).

“What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?” (Rom. 8:31-32).

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, ‘For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.’ No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom. 8:35-39).

“so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord” (1 Cor. 1:7-9).

“And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil.1:6).

“Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it” (1 Thess. 5:23-24).

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” (1 Peter 1:3-5).

“Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen” (Jude 24-25).

 

[Doug Brents]

Some people just don't know how Saved they really are. My best advice is that if you loses your salvation search for it immediately leave no stone unturned. It's there somewhere you didn't lose it it's only misplaced.

LOL, If you don't know you're saved, then you're not.

But that's not likely to happen since when a person comes to Jesus through the drawing of the Father, it is impossible for him to be turned away or cast out.

It is impossible to be turned out or cast away? But it is absolutely possible to leave. If you choose to cease walking in the Light, then you fall into unrepentant sin and are lost. As Gal 6:1, "Brothers and sisters, even if a person is caught in any wrongdoing, you who are spiritual are to restore such a person in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you are not tempted as well." and James 5:20-21, "My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you strays from the truth and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that the one who has turned a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover a multitude of sins." both say, our brothers and sisters in Christ who fall into unrepentant sin are lost, but can be restored to Christ by being brought back to repentance.

 

[Biblelesson]

LOL, If you don't know you're saved, then you're not.

It is impossible to be turned out or cast away? But it is absolutely possible to leave. If you choose to cease walking in the Light, then you fall into unrepentant sin and are lost. As Gal 6:1, "Brothers and sisters, even if a person is caught in any wrongdoing, you who are spiritual are to restore such a person in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you are not tempted as well." and James 5:20-21, "My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you strays from the truth and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that the one who has turned a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover a multitude of sins." both say, our brothers and sisters in Christ who fall into unrepentant sin are lost, but can be restored to Christ by being brought back to repentance.

You left out some key words. What you quoted me of saying wasn't what I said at all. Let's try again.

Some people just don't know how Saved they really are. Keywords How saved. What that means is if you think you can lose your salvation then you really don't understand the greatness of your salvation.

Of this you can be certain, and in it you may rest assured: Your loving and gracious heavenly Father will never let go of your hand; he will never, by no means ever, leave you or forsake you, or ever allow you to leave or forsake him!

You said : "our brothers and sisters in Christ who fall into unrepentant sin are lost, but can be restored to Christ by being brought back to repentance."

So you agree that if you turn from sin you haven't lost your salvation. And rightly so as demonstrated in the parable of the Sheep. It tells a story of how a shepherd left his flock of 99 sheep to go find one lost sheep. This parable displays the beautiful meaning of God seeking out the lost sinner and rejoicing when they are found.

When you belong to him you're his you're part of his family. No good father would lose one of his children.

 

[Fellow Traveler]

Well you know what they say, If you're saved and you know it clap your hands...

If you saved and you know it Stomp your feet

If you saved and you know it then your life will surely show it.