Eternal Security

[civic]

When Jesus is quoting the first verse of Psalm 22 He is most likely referring to the complete psalm. The Gospel writers often use the literary shorthand called allusion. With an allusion, the writer uses a quotation to refer to an entire passage or story which comes to life in the particular situation he is describing.

The fact that Jesus is God "Emmanuel" Makes it impossible for him to abandon himself. Then you have the whole dividing the trinity problem.

Amen you have a good grasp on the Tri-Unity of God.

 

[Ray]

When Jesus is quoting the first verse of Psalm 22 He is most likely referring to the complete psalm. The Gospel writers often use the literary shorthand called allusion. With an allusion, the writer uses a quotation to refer to an entire passage or story which comes to life in the particular situation he is describing.

The fact that Jesus is God "Emmanuel" Makes it impossible for him to abandon himself. Then you have the whole dividing the trinity problem.

Given what we know about the Triune God, the Incarnation, and sin, we must then examine Scriptures in their entirety along with all the revealed doctrines. Looking at Scriptures in their entirety requires us to reject any interpretations suggesting God the Son in any way lost communion with God the Father or was at enmity with the Father.

 

[Doug Brents]

You’re referring to some of Jesus’ last recorded words, spoken while He was dying on the cross. The Bible says that He “cried out in a loud voice … ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'” Mark 15:34

Jesus is quoting the first verse of Psalm 22. And if you look at the complete psalm you will see that God never abandoned him.

I find it is astounding to read Psalm 22 because it points forward in amazing detail to Jesus’ whole ordeal. The author of the psalm says, “I am scorned by everyone, despised by the people who mock me, they shake their heads at me, ‘You relied on the Lord — let him deliver you if he loves you, let him rescue you!’” Further on he writes, “Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet. All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment.”

Despite the terrible ordeal, the psalmist does not despair. He does not give up on God and God does not give up on him. He writes, “For God has not spurned or disdained the misery of this poor wretch. He did not turn away from me, but he heard me when I cried out.” Then in the final verses, the psalmist sees that his suffering has a far greater significance. God will use the suffering to reveal his glory in the world. “All the ends of the earth will worship and turn to the Lord … the generations to come will be told of the Lord that they may proclaim to a people yet unborn the deliverance you have brought.”

He may very well have been quoting the Psalm, but He was also in great distress, not over the physical abuses He had received, but something much greater. The night before His death, Jesus cried, and wept, and had sweat like blood falling from Him. Have you ever considered what this means? There is a medical condition called Hematohidrosis, that is a very rare condition in which an individual sweats blood. It is characterized by tremendous blood-pressure which causes the capillaries in the skin to burst leaking blood into the sweat ducts. Normally this high of a blood pressure is enough to kill the person. Now consider, that the Angels of Heaven tended to Jesus on exactly two occasions: once when He was near death from starvation due to 40 days of fasting, and the second when He was near death from stress because of what He knew was coming the next day. I don't think that the physical abuse He was about to suffer, while severe in the extreme, was what He was afraid of. What had Him sweating blood was the knowledge that He was facing dis-fellowship by the Father. Because He knew He was about to take on all the sins of all the world (2 Cor 5:21). Jesus died the death that mankind deserved as the penalty for sin, because on the cross, all the sins of all the world were attributed to Him, and He suffered the punishment for those sins: separation from God. He had never been separated from the Father, not for any time in all of Eternity. But on the cross, the Father exiled Jesus from Himself because the sinner cannot stay where God is (Psalm 5:4).

As far as Jesus becoming sin for us. Exactly what that means is highly debatable.

Perhaps the best way to understand He became sin for us is to begin with what it does not mean. First, it does not mean that Jesus actually became sin itself. To posit such a theory denies all of Scripture, which clearly presents Jesus Christ as the One in whom there is no sin (1 John 3:5), who commits no sin (1 Peter 2:22), and who is holy, blameless, and pure (Mark 1:24; Acts 3:14; Revelation 3:7). For Jesus to “become” sin, even for a moment, would mean He ceased to be God. But Scripture presents Jesus as “the same yesterday, today and forever” (Hebrews 13:8). He was and is and always will be the Second Person of the Godhead (John 1:1).

If He became sin for us does not mean Jesus was sin, or a sinner, or guilty of sin, the proper interpretation can only be found in the doctrine of imputation. This is confirmed by the second part of 2 Corinthians 5:21: “So that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” To impute something is to ascribe or attribute it to someone. On the cross, our sin was imputed to Christ. That is how Christ paid our sin debt to God. He had no sin in Himself, but our sin was imputed (attributed) to Him so, as He suffered, He took the just penalty that our sin deserves. At the same time, through faith, Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us. Now we can stand before God sinless, just as Jesus is sinless. We are not righteous in ourselves; rather, Christ’s righteousness is applied to us.

So, “God made him . . . to be sin for us” means that Jesus, although sinless, was treated as if He were not. Although He remained holy, He was regarded as guilty of all the sin in the world. Through imputation of our sin to Him, He became our substitute and the recipient of God’s judgment against sin. Having saved those who believe, He is now “our righteousness, holiness and redemption” (1 Corinthians 1:30).

There is really no debate to it.
"He [the Father] made Him [Jesus] who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." - 2 Cor 5:21
"He who committed no sin, ... 24 and He Himself brought our sins in His body up on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness; by His wounds you were healed." - 1 Pet 2:22-24
"and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." - 1 John 2:2
God, in a judicial swap, gave Jesus (the only completely sinless Human to ever exist) all of the sins of all of the people for all time, and in exchange gave the people the ability to receive Jesus' righteousness. This did not cause Him to cease to be God. But He also could no longer stay in the presence of God.

 

[Diserner]

There is really no debate to it.

Obviously there is a debate to it, as a matter of fact there's one going on right here right now.

On the cross, our sin was imputed to Christ. That is how Christ paid our sin debt to God. He had no sin in Himself, but our sin was imputed (attributed) to Him so, as He suffered, He took the just penalty that our sin deserves. At the same time, through faith, Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us. Now we can stand before God sinless, just as Jesus is sinless. We are not righteous in ourselves; rather, Christ’s righteousness is applied to us.

So, “God made him . . . to be sin for us” means that Jesus, although sinless, was treated as if He were not. Although He remained holy, He was regarded as guilty of all the sin in the world. Got?

 

[civic]

Given what we know about the Triune God, the Incarnation, and sin, we must then examine Scriptures in their entirety along with all the revealed doctrines. Looking at Scriptures in their entirety requires us to reject any interpretations suggesting God the Son in any way lost communion with God the Father or was at enmity with the Father.

ditto

 

[Doug Brents]

Obviously there is a debate to it, as a matter of fact there's one going on right here right now.

I don't see why you would want to be debating with Scripture. Scripture says clearly that Christ became sin for us. Yes, our sin was imputed to Him, and thereby He BECAME sin. In the same way, His righteousness in imputed to us, and thereby we BECOME righteous.

Got?

What does this mean? Is it an acronym for something? Or are you asking if I get it? It makes no sense in your comments here.

 

[Johann]

I don't see why you would want to be debating with Scripture. Scripture says clearly that Christ became sin for us. Yes, our sin was imputed to Him, and thereby He BECAME sin. In the same way, His righteousness in imputed to us, and thereby we BECOME righteous.

What does this mean? Is it an acronym for something? Or are you asking if I get it? It makes no sense in your comments here.

From Got Questions.

 

[Obadiah]

I don't see why you would want to be debating with Scripture. Scripture says clearly that Christ became sin for us. Yes, our sin was imputed to Him, and thereby He BECAME sin. In the same way, His righteousness in imputed to us, and thereby we BECOME righteous.

What does this mean? Is it an acronym for something? Or are you asking if I get it? It makes no sense in your comments here.

It's a link

 

[civic]

Got ? is a good source but like everything else out there they are fallible. Its an on-line source I often use as a reference.

 

[Diserner]

I don't see why you would want to be debating with Scripture. Scripture says clearly that Christ became sin for us. Yes, our sin was imputed to Him, and thereby He BECAME sin. In the same way, His righteousness in imputed to us, and thereby we BECOME righteous.

What does this mean? Is it an acronym for something? Or are you asking if I get it? It makes no sense in your comments here.

It's more like debating the interpretation of scripture. As for your question if I'm asking if you get it. Now that's a debate. LOL. But seriously everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Let me try one more time. As for us becoming righteous. What does the Bible say about that?

The phrase "we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus" is a biblical quote from 2 Corinthians 5:21. The verse means that through faith in Jesus Christ, God treats everyone alike and accepts people only because they have faith in Jesus Christ.

We are not righteous in ourselves; rather, Christ’s righteousness is applied to us.

 

[Obadiah]

What does it mean that Jesus became sin for us (2 Corinthians 5:21)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that Jesus became sin for us? What is the meaning of 2 Corinthians 5:21?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Johann]

What does it mean that Jesus became sin for us (2 Corinthians 5:21)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that Jesus became sin for us? What is the meaning of 2 Corinthians 5:21?

www.gotquestions.org

Love your signature.

 

[Doug Brents]

Let me try one more time. As for us becoming righteous. What does the Bible say about that?

The phrase "we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus" is a biblical quote from 2 Corinthians 5:21. The verse means that through faith in Jesus Christ, God treats everyone alike and accepts people only because they have faith in Jesus Christ.

We are not righteous in ourselves; rather, Christ’s righteousness is applied to us.

1 John 1:7 says that the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. It does not just cover over our sin, it removes it completely. It MAKES US righteous. No, we are not righteous in ourselves, but we are no longer stained in sin.

You may have heard the parable of the boy whose father, every time the boy did wrong, would drive a nail in a board. If the boy corrected the wrong he had done, then the nail was withdrawn from the board. Some of the nails were never withdrawn, but even when they were, the hole in the board remained. After years, the board was covered in a few nails and hundreds of holes. Then when the boy was in his teens he obeyed the faith and was baptized into Christ. That day when he returned home, he found the board smooth, pure, and unblemished. That is our soul when we are washed in the Blood. It is not just called pure, it is made pure.

 

[Diserner]

If I don't do the "thou shalt nots" then am I on my way to knowing "what real love means"?

Sounds very legalistic—you can't force love just by acting a certain way.

If I give all that I have—and my body to be burned—but have not love, I am nothing.

So love is not the actions at all, love is a prior attitude of the heart.

 

[Johann]

1 John 1:7 says that the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. It does not just cover over our sin, it removes it completely. It MAKES US righteous. No, we are not righteous in ourselves, but we are no longer stained in sin.

"cleanses us from all sin" This is a PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE. The term "sin" is SINGULAR with no ARTICLE. This implies every kind of sin. Notice this verse is focusing on a one-time cleansing (salvation, 1 John 1:9), but on an ongoing cleansing (the Christian life). Both are part of the Christian experience (cf. John 13:10).

The blood of Jesus ... cleanseth us from all sin - daily contracted through the weakness of the flesh, and the power of Satan and the world. He is speaking, not of justification through His blood once for all, but of present sanctification ("cleanseth"), which the believer, walking in the light, and having fellowship with God and the saints, enjoys as his privilege. Compare Joh_13:10, 'He that has been bathed [ leloumenos (G3068)] needeth not save to wash [ nipsasthai (G3538)] his feet, but is clean every whit.' Compare 1Jn_1:9, "cleanse us from all unrighteousness:" a further step besides 'forgiving us our sins.' Christ's blood is the mean whereby, being already justified, and in fellowship with God, we become gradually clean from all sin which would mar fellowship with God. Faith applies the cleansing, purifying blood. 'Aleph (') B C omit "Christ;" A retains it.

Note the present tense cleanseth. The cleansing is present and continuous. Alexander (Bishop of Derry) cites a striking passage from Victor Hugo (“Le Parricide”). The usurper Canute, who has had a share in his father's death, expiring after a virtuous and glorious reign, walks towards the light of heaven. But first he cuts with his sword a shroud of snow from the top of Mt. Savo. As he advances towards heaven, a cloud forms, and drop by drop his shroud is soaked with a rain of blood.
VWS.

1:8 "If we say that we have no sin" This is another THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE. Sin is a spiritual reality in a fallen world, even for believers (cf. Romans 7; Eph. 4:14; 6:10-18). John's Gospel addresses this issue often (cf. John 9:41; 15:22,24; 19:11). This verse rejects all ancient and modern claims that deny individual moral responsibility.

 

[Johann]

Precious friend, this is a good beginning, for me [to know]:

​

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another​

hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill,​

Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and​

if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying,​

namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his​

neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:8-10)​

​

If I don't do the "thou shalt nots" then am I on my way to knowing "what real love means"?

Amen.

Ah!-The God of the Imperatives.

 

[Obadiah]

1 John 1:7 says that the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. It does not just cover over our sin, it removes it completely. It MAKES US righteous. No, we are not righteous in ourselves, but we are no longer stained in sin.

So which is it, The blood of Jesus continually cleanses us or completely removed sin from us. If we need to be continually clean that would indicate that we still sin.

1 John 1:7 but if we [really] walk in the Light [that is, live each and every day in conformity with the precepts of God], as He Himself is in the Light, we have [true, unbroken] fellowship with one another [He with us, and we with Him], and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin [by erasing the stain of sin, keeping us cleansed from sin in all its forms and manifestations]. 8 Holly period9 If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just [true to His own nature and promises], and will forgive our sins and cleanse us continually from all unrighteousness [our wrongdoing, everything not in conformity with His will and purpose]. 10 If we say that we have not sinned [refusing to admit acts of sin], we make Him [out to be] a liar [by contradicting Him] and His word is not in us.

 

[Johann]

Sounds very legalistic—you can't force love just by acting a certain way.

If I give all that I have—and my body to be burned—but have not love, I am nothing.

So love is not the actions at all, love is a prior attitude of the heart.

Love is not a "feeling" but an act of the will-by and in the sphere of the Holy Spirit-of course.

 

[Diserner]

Love is not a "feeling" but an act of the will-by and in the sphere of the Holy Spirit-of course.

I don't think you can force it.

It's a fruit of the Spirit.

Love, joy, peace...

Go try making a fruit grow with willpower?!

 

[Johann]

I don't think you can force it.

It's a fruit of the Spirit.

Love, joy, peace...

Go try making a fruit grow with willpower?!

I did say--in the sphere of the Holy Spirit brother-for if we don't have the Holy Spirit we are none of His.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.